Driving to the snow over the years

telecrag

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At a given speed, same same. The chevrons are placed for 100kph.
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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Why not. Paint some regular lines on the road. Film with drone. You can measure the gap and the average speed of the vehicle at the same time.
They tried that about 30 years ago with helicopter observation relayed to cars on the ground. It was stopped after a couple of years. I can imagine that actual proof would be extremely difficult - the chain of information from observer to the ground would be very tenuous plus problems with identification of the vehicle and fallibility of human timing.
 
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fenrir

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I admit it I speed. Maybe up to 8kms over on average. Maybe twenty trips a year and haven't been booked since 1990. I'm flying by cars sitting on or just under the limit on the motorway. But I am over the limit as much as they are under as they're using their speedo I'm operating by GPS.
Screenshot_20201019-163035_Samsung Internet.jpg
So I know I'm breaking the law and add to the risk of an incident, but I refuse to follow the masses do 10kms below the speed limit and don't know it. How often are we stuck doing 85kms on the Monaro.

Would be interesting to know what the average speed cameras are calibrated to for tolerances of an infringement.
You can do the math yourself with larger diameter tyres to correct it.
 
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Arne

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You can do the math yourself with larger diameter tyres to correct it.
Maths? I'm not correcting anything.
Just stating nobody knows their actual speed. Weekend warriors and country driving newbies grossly underestimating their speed causing huge blockages and conga lines.
I'm always avoiding peak times anyway.
Summer riding season starts in a month. Different vibe on the roads.
 
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Jasper Schwarz

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Maths? I'm not correcting anything.
Just stating nobody knows their actual speed. Weekend warriors and country driving newbies grossly underestimating their speed causing huge blockages and conga lines.
I'm always avoiding peak times anyway.
Summer riding season starts in a month. Different vibe on the roads.
Or a P/L plater??
Knowing your speed should not matter as long as you are under it.
Simply put, if you are worried your speedo is wrong, slow down. You dont have to do your true speed. You arent going to get a ticket for going 5 km/h.

If someone in front of you is going to slowly be patient and wait for a safe space to overtake. I guarentee it is not going to put more than 10 minutes on at the end of your trip
 
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Snow Blowey

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Or a P/L plater??

If someone in front of you is going to slowly be patient and wait for a safe space to overtake. I guarentee it is not going to put more than 10 minutes on at the end of your trip

This, but also - if you have to travel slower than everyone else for some reason and notice a long snake of cars behind you, and time is not an issue for you, assist as many people to get around you as possible by maintining your speed or even slowing at designated overtaking lanes, and hang left so people can see around you as easy as possible.

But the old you only save a few minutes thing is not right. On the Sydney-Snow trip of 500km (5 hours) 10km/hr means you save about 30 minutes. On my trip its about 40 minutes.

And that last 40 minutes can be hard late at night on less than ideal roads.
 

Jasper Schwarz

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But the old you only save a few minutes thing is not right. On the Sydney-Snow trip of 500km (5 hours) 10km/hr means you save about 30 minutes. On my trip its about 40 minutes.

And that last 40 minutes can be hard late at night on less than ideal roads.

Thats assuming that you are always sitting at the speed limit and you never go over -> so yes, you might lose some time by you being slowed down, but you will also be going faster than the spee limits in some point as you have highlighted that its about 40 minutes.

The argument is irrational. Its as simple as @climberman pointed out. Its traffic the speed limit is the maximum not minimum. Can't do anyhthing about it so enjoy the ride.
I hated driving at 90. It sucks. But thats the law and thats what you have to do
 
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Skichic2

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or ease up on the gas peddle .....
they eventually figure it out.

risk is tho they get more intelligently challenged and decide to do something not so thoughtful.
Yeah. I once did a gentle brake tap to try and get a tailgater to back off. He overtook and came to a complete stop in front of me. At night, Monaro highway, over a crest. Me and the girl alone.
 

fenrir

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Yeah. I once did a gentle brake tap to try and get a tailgater to back off. He overtook and came to a complete stop in front of me. At night, Monaro highway, over a crest. Me and the girl alone.
I remember when I was a kid the passenger of the car next to ours was staring at dad so he stuck his tongue out at her. For the next 5km the car kept racing in front of us and brake checking to try and run us off the road.

People are effing crazy.
 

Snow Blowey

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Thats assuming that you are always sitting at the speed limit and you never go over -> so yes, you might lose some time by you being slowed down, but you will also be going faster than the spee limits in some point as you have highlighted that its about 40 minutes.

The argument is irrational. Its as simple as @climberman pointed out. Its traffic the speed limit is the maximum not minimum. Can't do anyhthing about it so enjoy the ride.
I hated driving at 90. It sucks. But thats the law and thats what you have to do

You can overtake where safe, rather than form a conga line.
 

Snow Blowey

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Trust me. As a reformed nutter I can assure you that the time difference is minimal. You always catch up to that annoying other traffic.


I recon i can easily gain 10 minutes on the monaro leg. Then i've got another another 350km odd of single lane to go where passing slower vehicles can save lots of time.
More importantly, by actively trying to pass you are much more aware of other traffic so much less likley to have an accident. Its the docile relaxed not in a rush types that leave their lane whilst playing with the touch screen. You don't play with the touch screen when you are looking for a passing opportunity or getting on with business.
 
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Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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I recon i can easily gain 10 minutes on the monaro leg. Then i've got another another 350km odd of single lane to go where passing slower vehicles can save lots of time.
More importantly, by actively trying to pass you are much more aware of other traffic so much less likley to have an accident. Its the docile relaxed not in a rush types that leave their lane whilst playing with the touch screen. You don't play with the touch screen when you are looking for a passing opportunity or getting on with business.
You reckon, do you? Unlike you I have actually done the experiment.
 

robbo mcs

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Maths? I'm not correcting anything.
Just stating nobody knows their actual speed.

Actually much less of a problem than it used to be. A lot of GPS systems now show your actual speed by GPS, which is very accurate. So even if people don't use it all the time, many people these days have a rough idea how inaccurate their speedo is.
 
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telecrag

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I set my cruise, modern vehicle, it doesn't vary, 108, been past a million speed cameras, no tickets.

I did GPS it once, and based it off that.

I reckon if most people were actually using cruise on highway (I use it in town on freeway too) everyone would have a smoother time, even though they are all set at different speeds.

Heres a novelty idea, a GPS dictated cruise control, that is linked to speed zones, turn it on, don't even need to set it. You want me to believe you can make autonomous vehicles? Howzabout you start with something much much simpler. Im still using a keyboard for fricksake.
 

pegasusSki

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You can overtake where safe, rather than form a conga line.

Conga lines form when there's lots of traffic and the front person is probably doing the right thing by not exceeding the limit by more than say 5-10pc. The danger is that people think they are amazing drivers when really most are motorists. Noone is truly trained to be an expert driver. It's not in most of our job descriptions. Only bogans think they are good drivers, or locals.

The issue is that there are not many safe passing zones for all, and only a few can overtake and take off.

The problem I have is when you let traffic pass in an overtaking lane, then have someone annoyed when you merge neatly back in giving yourself space to do so. I never merge back along the final narrowing lane as I have to assume someone won't let me in and I don't want to run out of road. It never ceases to amaze me that people sleepily follow that merge line back in. What happens if someone doesn't give them room - are they going to run off the road?
 

nezumi

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Well if you’re being accurate then it’s 87. It also states that it has to remain under. Even if you rounded conventionally you would take 87, because your 88 example rounds to 101

"The speedo must not indicate ... a speed greater than the vehicle's true speed by an amount more than 10% plus 4km/h"

If the true speed is 87km/h and the speedo shows 100km/h, that's more than 10% + 4 above the true speed, so would not be allowed.
 

Snow Blowey

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Conga lines form when there's lots of traffic and the front person is probably doing the right thing by not exceeding the limit by more than say 5-10pc. The danger is that people think they are amazing drivers when really most are motorists. Noone is truly trained to be an expert driver. It's not in most of our job descriptions. Only bogans think they are good drivers, or locals.

The issue is that there are not many safe passing zones for all, and only a few can overtake and take off.

The problem I have is when you let traffic pass in an overtaking lane, then have someone annoyed when you merge neatly back in giving yourself space to do so. I never merge back along the final narrowing lane as I have to assume someone won't let me in and I don't want to run out of road. It never ceases to amaze me that people sleepily follow that merge line back in. What happens if someone doesn't give them room - are they going to run off the road?


People not leaving a safe gap is a big part of it. People that never drive single lane roads and are not prepared to consider passing a slow vehicle are also a big part of the problem. These people typically think passing is dangerous, but then sit 5m behind a bus or caravan totally unaware of what is going on 50m up the road.

The Monaro is very friendly for overtaking opportunities outside of the dedicated lanes. The task is much easier if you have space to move into up ahead. Some people drive so close that the task becomes overtake 5 at once or don't try. A good overtake can be exceuted in about 5 seconds if you have space. Takes much longer if there is no obvious way back into the "queue".

Dedicated overtaking lanes are a big part of the anxiety. Its why people don't let you back in - its not their choice by the way. They see it as the only opportunity to pass. People would be so much more relaxed and comfortable if they realised they could overtake in plenty of other locations along the Monaro. But people don't practise this skill anymore because noone drives off dual carriagways except for the one trip to the snow a year.
 

KylePee

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"The speedo must not indicate ... a speed greater than the vehicle's true speed by an amount more than 10% plus 4km/h"

If the true speed is 87km/h and the speedo shows 100km/h, that's more than 10% + 4 above the true speed, so would not be allowed.
Ahh, touche. The wording broke me didn't it! So then, is that with rounding applied? :)
 
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pegasusSki

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Dedicated overtaking lanes are a big part of the anxiety. Its why people don't let you back in - its not their choice by the way. They see it as the only opportunity to pass.

But often that last car that think they have a chance is really leaving it late to overtake AND not letting you any chance to merge back in decisively yourself. They gain on you from a distance not even going particularly fast, whilst precious metres are lost. [By merging back in decisively, you are telling the next car that, sorry, you are running out of room and need to call back the favour, having let x people pass already.]

It's the lack of consideration I don't get - sure they didn't get to overtake this time, but why I should I run out of road, and leave it to the last few meters, at the mercy of yet more cars, just because they wanted to overtake? That next car might be under the influence and not notice I am about to run out of road. I'd rather drive defensively and decisively and move over - even if it means 1 car is disappointed.
 

Snow Blowey

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But often that last car that think they have a chance is really leaving it late to overtake AND not letting you any chance to merge back in decisively yourself. They gain on you from a distance not even going particularly fast, whilst precious metres are lost. [By merging back in decisively, you are telling the next car that, sorry, you are running out of room and need to call back the favour, having let x people pass already.]

It's the lack of consideration I don't get - sure they didn't get to overtake this time, but why I should I run out of road, and leave it to the last few meters, at the mercy of yet more cars, just because they wanted to overtake? That next car might be under the influence and not notice I am about to run out of road. I'd rather drive defensively and decisively and move over - even if it means 1 car is disappointed.

Why do you want that car behind you, when it can be in front and get away from you? You just plan ahead and match speed to make room. The gap in the traffic is not a distance, it is a time. If you match speed the gap is infinite.

But there are 'typically 500m warnings that the lane is ending. That's more than 30 seconds at 100km/hr to get organised . To many people see that 500m sign and change lanes immediately causing frustration.
 

pegasusSki

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Why do you want that car behind you, when it can be in front and get away from you? You just plan ahead and match speed to make room. The gap in the traffic is not a distance, it is a time. If you match speed the gap is infinite.

But there are 'typically 500m warnings that the lane is ending. That's more than 30 seconds at 100km/hr to get organised . To many people see that 500m sign and change lanes immediately causing frustration.

Sure- I don't want that car to be so keen to overtake and take so long that I then run out of merge distance - when the road runs out - is then most definitely about distance and not time.

Agreed on the markers - I'm talking about the distance (and time) past that as you approach the merge - and still someone looks keen.
 

Billy_Buttons

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Often the problem is when you get a gutless car (engine) going into the o/t lane and hogs it. So very frustrating.
 
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Snow Blowey

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Often the problem is when you get a gutless car (engine) going into the o/t lane and hogs it. So very frustrating.


Poor technique from driving overpowered cars. At every overtaking lane you see cars get even closer together. This means they have to do all their accelerating once the lane opens up. If you hang back 100m or so, accelerate a few seconds before the lane opens up and when it does you are already travelling 20km/hr faster than the car you are about to overtake and you are around in seconds. This also tends to deal with the overtakee speeding up when people are trying to go around.

Same goes for any overtaking, yet people seem to think they have to tailgate hard to have the best chance at getting around. It's the opposite. You don't ever get to the front of the queue faster by standing closer to everyone else in the queue.

Should be mandatory for everyone to spend some time driving an old clunker, or a vehicle with a load, so that people understand how to drive 30 seconds into the future, rather than reacting once the vehicle has to start working hard. How many people do you see drop 20km/hr at any of the decent hills before they realise they need to give it a bit of right foot. In the old clunker you had to hit every hill with a runup and get it in the right gear for maximum power before you slowed down. Once you are slowing down, the game is over.
 

Billy_Buttons

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Poor technique from driving overpowered cars. At every overtaking lane you see cars get even closer together. This means they have to do all their accelerating once the lane opens up. If you hang back 100m or so, accelerate a few seconds before the lane opens up and when it does you are already travelling 20km/hr faster than the car you are about to overtake and you are around in seconds. This also tends to deal with the overtakee speeding up when people are trying to go around.

Same goes for any overtaking, yet people seem to think they have to tailgate hard to have the best chance at getting around. It's the opposite. You don't ever get to the front of the queue faster by standing closer to everyone else in the queue.

Should be mandatory for everyone to spend some time driving an old clunker, or a vehicle with a load, so that people understand how to drive 30 seconds into the future, rather than reacting once the vehicle has to start working hard. How many people do you see drop 20km/hr at any of the decent hills before they realise they need to give it a bit of right foot. In the old clunker you had to hit every hill with a runup and get it in the right gear for maximum power before you slowed down. Once you are slowing down, the game is over.
Mainly when you have a pan-tech truck, a farmer with his hay bales then a caravan or two along with tailgaters. Best solution is to pull over into a rest area have a coffee and a pee and hope most turn off somewhere ahead. LOL
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
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Same goes for any overtaking, yet people seem to think they have to tailgate hard to have the best chance at getting around. It's the opposite. You don't ever get to the front of the queue faster by standing closer to everyone else in the queue.

Nah mate, Im tailgating to block any others from getting the drop on me on the overtake opportunity.

Haha

One thing is for sure, any drive makes you realise pretty quick, people are weird, and who really knows WTF they are thinking. I always say people should do a year on a motorbike, and the ones who survive are allowed to have a go of something else.
 

Billy_Buttons

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Nah mate, Im tailgating to block any others from getting the drop on me on the overtake opportunity.

Haha

One thing is for sure, any drive makes you realise pretty quick, people are weird, and who really knows WTF they are thinking. I always say people should do a year on a motorbike, and the ones who survive are allowed to have a go of something else.
Fark. In the 70's we lost 12+ family friends on Kwaka 1000's et al, the other 1 has been in a vegetative state ever since.
 

Snow Blowey

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For overtaking trucks.

If i ever see a truck stuck behind some slow bugger i know he/she doesn't have much chance to overtake outside of a dedicated overtaking lane, so sit back and let them have a go. As a car it will be very easy to pass the slow vehicle and the truck somewhere just up the road in the single lane section.

Have driven heavy loads on under powered vehicles and know what its like. Would help most understand happening on the road if they had done the same. SO many people get frsutrated about the truck that passed and then slowed down, or the truck that sped up when i went to overtake it. Truck isn't slowing down to annoy you, its just hit a slight hill or headwind and it can't go any faster. And its not speeding up to annoy you, it just got over the rise and is now trying to maintain 100km/hr.
 
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Billy_Buttons

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If i ever see a truck stuck behind some slow bugger i know he/she doesn't have much chance to overtake outside of a dedicated overtaking lane, so sit back and let them have a go. As a car it will be very easy to pass the slow vehicle and the truck somewhere just up the road in the single lane section.

Have driven heavy loads on under powered vehicles and know what its like. Would help most understand happening on the road if they had done the same. SO many people get frsutrated about the truck that passed and then slowed down, or the truck that sped up when i went to overtake it. Truck isn't slowing down to annoy you, its just hit a slight hill or headwind and it can't go any faster. And its not speeding up to annoy you, it just got over the rise and is now trying to maintain 100km/hr.
We live leeward of Pennant Hills Rd.
Northconnex is about to open.
No more b-double break downs.
Due to missing 21 sets of traffic lights.
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:
 
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climberman

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If i ever see a truck stuck behind some slow bugger i know he/she doesn't have much chance to overtake outside of a dedicated overtaking lane, so sit back and let them have a go. As a car it will be very easy to pass the slow vehicle and the truck somewhere just up the road in the single lane section.

Have driven heavy loads on under powered vehicles and know what its like. Would help most understand happening on the road if they had done the same. SO many people get frsutrated about the truck that passed and then slowed down, or the truck that sped up when i went to overtake it. Truck isn't slowing down to annoy you, its just hit a slight hill or headwind and it can't go any faster. And its not speeding up to annoy you, it just got over the rise and is now trying to maintain 100km/hr.
everyone agrees (except they often seem to be trying to maintain 135kmh) :)
 
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