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Question Drones at perisher

Discussion in 'Perisher' started by the133448, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. the133448

    the133448 Hard Yards

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    Whats Perisher's polciy on drones?

    Does it just coform to the Australian legistlations?
    As in no filming within 30m of a buildiing or person and not above 100M?
     
  2. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    NPWS would also have have their finger in the rule pie, they hate any thing that fly's , unless you have lots of paper work and pay a fee.
     
  3. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    You will have great difficulty (as in impossible) complying with the CASA regs on or near groomed runs or lifts. It's not actually a Perisher issue given the lease setup there (unless you're using their lifts). It's a NPWS issue (and I don't know what their policy is).
     
  4. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you drone on I reserve the right to tell you to STFU. o_O
     
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  5. Fandango

    Fandango Addicted

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    I've heard something about not being able to use them within 5km radius from an airport, the helipad at Perisher is considered an airport, I think. Also CASA rules apply, must have radio contact with aircraft etc. NPWS could clarify.
     
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  6. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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  7. Mr. Mook

    Mr. Mook One of Us

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    Judging by some of the aerial shots Perisher have in their videos, I reckon they are using drones.
    check about 34 seconds into this one
     
  8. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've seen dones used over the front valley terrain park to film people before. Pretty sure they operated by perisher staff though.
     
  9. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    Not actually up to perisher, its all covered by CASA. If the system works, perisher would be using an approved RPA operator. That operator would then get casa approval to operate there as its close to a Helipad (owned by npws) and an obviously crowded area. This would be the correct and safest way but as we all know, thats not always the case.
    https://www.casa.gov.au/operations/...oted-aircraft-rpa?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_100374
     
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  10. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    In the case of Perisher, CASA controls the Drone, however NPWS or the resort controls the operator flying one.
     
  11. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    CASA approves the operator of the RPA and issues them an operators certifcate. The operator then submits a safety case to CASA and Airservises Aust and they conduct a risk assessment.
    Either perisher and/or npws contract out to an approved RPA operator, or they have an employee who is approved.
     
  12. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, but if NPWS or Perisher do not want a Drone flown there it doesnt matter what CASA allows,
     
  13. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    Except in the case of Perisher they don't control the whole resort- Their lease is only over the buildings and lifts. Outside those envelopes, it's all NPWS. But yes, NPWS can stop the 'pilot', because the pilot is standing on the ground, CASA approval or not.
     
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  14. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    You're right, they would only need to call casa and say its unsafe.
    An approved operator would have (hopefully) ran their submission via both perisher and npws before submitting it for risk assessment. You would think being on a perisher media video that all the boxes have been ticked.
    Problem with RPA ops (or uav) is casa and Asa are playing catch up and there are plenty out there who dont know or care about the safety side.
     
  15. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    The training to get an RPA operators certificate covers all the approval process and is well detailed. The two big items down at perisher are the people on the snow and proximity to the helipad.

    http://www.sydneyuavtraining.com.au
     
  16. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    talk about overcooked
     
  17. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    The training courses are a massive cash cow (at least in relation to the cost of running them).
     
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  18. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you own a drone don't take it to or operate it at any Australian ski resort. Simples.
    /end thread.
     
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  19. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    meanwhile in NZ
     
  20. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    I know a few helicopter pilots that get very worried about drones !
     
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  21. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Meh, kiwis. Risk taking tossers.
    Fark me, who other than kiwis jump off bridges strapped to rubber bands?
     
  22. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    No they would not need to call CASA, they would just have the enact a by-law stating you can not operate one there and then fine anyone who does without approval.
     
  23. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    google deer recover Hughes 500
     
  24. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    high tension wires moreso
     
  25. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    Im actually agreeing with you. Calling casa is one of several ways. Or the cops, or a ranger. If the person isnt approved, and it was a serious incident, then casa would prosecute. Breach of the civil avaition act. Have to be something pretty major though.
     
  26. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Crazy ****ers.
     
  27. the133448

    the133448 Hard Yards

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    So no im guessing... what would happen if I did like over a really empty part of perisher (The bottom half of outer limits) what could actualy happen
     
  28. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    IMHO: If you don't fly outside the CASA requirements then there should be no problem. I'd doubt Perisher staff are up on the CASA regs though. They'd prolly default to telling you to pack it up and threaten to pull your pass worst case. If you could convince them you were flying safely [1] and within CASA regs (and not in an argumentative confrontational manner as most peeps seem to do when challenged) then you may well get away with it. If you are doing more than a bit of incidental filming, you may want to approach Perisher beforehand and discuss the issue. They'd prolly appreciate it.

    [1] I'd expect a crew of three minimum: Rider, drone operator and spotter (or two), all in radio contact. Have procedures documented and practiced before getting out there. Safety of non-participants *must* be the over-riding consideration. Getting the shots must be second. If you can convey that in a 30 second sound grab when challenged you've got a chance.
     
  29. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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  30. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nothing if there is no by-law under NPWS prohibiting you from operating one and you fly within CASA safety regs.
     
  31. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    But this is merely operating one.
    There is no point calling CASA unless the operator breaches CASA regs.
    Or cops unless there is a crime
    Or rangers unless NPWS has a bylaw prohibiting a person from operating one.
     
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  32. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    So if its operated within 30 m of a person ( as in geralton) is that not a breach of the casr and act ? Ie illegal.
     
  33. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    BTW, CASA requires 'Line of sight', so FPV is out unless you do have spotters with visual at all times as part of the control crew.
     
  34. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    Correct.
     
  35. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes but who is doing that ?
     
  36. despot721

    despot721 One of Us

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    Hopefully no one is.
    But the OP wants to do this " over a really empty part of Perisher". If it was to hit someone, then I reckon thats within 30m, and illegal. Hence the fine in geralton.
    The OP asked what could really happen. Ive put up a couple of examples. Or it could be all good and they get some great shots. He or she can accept the risk and possible consequences.
    So long as it doesnt hit me or my kids, Im not really fussed.
     
  37. tr+h

    tr+h One of Us

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    Looks terrible. Won't be coming!
     
  38. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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  39. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    NPWS will have in their encyclopedia of fine print No remote operated aircraft with out authorisation, in another life had many dealings with NPWS flying hang gliders & rc gliders from a NP look out, pain in the fn ass all the hoops to jump through, it can be done but for a one off thing not worth it. You may get away with it a couple of times, but when things stuff up, make sure there is no ID ot DNA on the drone, & run.
     
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  40. Ultra

    Ultra One of Us

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    definitely drone footage, and shot at the only legal point i could find in the area. pretty much the creek beds, away from buildings, and crowds.
     
  41. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    I forgot to post this from a week or so ago at Guthega.
     
  42. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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  43. DbSki

    DbSki Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    30 metre rule fail.
    People not directly involved with operation.

    But not surprised, not hard to find people flouting the regs and possibly they are not aware of them to start with..
     
  44. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    They were about to follow a group of skiers part way down the top part of the run. They'd held the drone off to one side and away from everyone while the way could be cleared apart from the skiers being filmed.
     
  45. Ultra

    Ultra One of Us

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    i have been looking into this, for next year, according to perisher, you have to get permission off them, and for the 30 mtr rule, no closer than 30 mtrs UNLESS, those closer are part of the operation, and briefed.. i asked about filming in the terrain park, on front valley, it can be done, but perisher will need time to change the terms and conditions of entry into the terrain park, to include accepting responsibility to being part of the filming operations.. the drone to be flown ONLY along the souther side of the park, not over the T bar line, which needs to be closed for the operation. so, if joe blogs wants to shoot, isnt going to happen, but if a professional outfit, with big sponsors, and throws them some cash, then its a go. so i doubt the guys at Guthega with the Inspire had permission.. though, unless their keeping within the rules, it could be ok, as mentioned before, Legally, perisher only own/lease the mountain hardware, lifts and snowmaking etc, the ground you ski over, and as much as the NPWS states that drone pilots are not permitted, nothing is in the Comlaw regs on NPWS limitations...

    we have to get the cash spent getting CASA approvals back somehow.. and there were a lot of approvals needed, you think getting an operators certificate is costly, try getting training authority from them as well.
     
  46. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    They would have had permission, they were escorted by staff.
     
  47. the133448

    the133448 Hard Yards

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    Do you have that footage?
     
  48. Boutros

    Boutros One of Us

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    NPWS have some say:

    The Kosciuszko National Park Plan of Management 2006 Section 8.17.3 ‘prohibits landing and take-offs of powered aircraft for recreational purposes.’

    Under the National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2009, sub-Clause 13 (1) (e) states that: ‘a person must not in a park drive, ride, operate…including any model vehicle, vessel or aircraft …in a manner likely to interfere with or cause a nuisance to any person or animal.’

    I believe a policy is in progress to provide better guidance.
     
  49. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    nope, I was just waiting for them to finish so I could head off down the run.