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News Epic Coverage info (from tickets@hotham people) important for VIC pass holders

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Young Angus, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    So I posted this in another thread but thought it would be helpful info to put front and centre in its own thread for people trying to figure out what to do with Epic passes and whether to refund or not in VIC...copy and paste from other thread post:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So I just got a reply from tickets@hotham with some good info and clarification on this...in writing I might add.

    I asked about Epic coverage and refund percentages etc. and why we can't select our resort of choice yet.

    The reply said that Epic Coverage was delayed in its launch, and that all pass holders will receive an email with instructions once it is available. They said that this is a thing and we will be able to select the resort of choice for cover, so I will be able to select Hotham only and then my refund amount will be a percentage based on days of the core season they were able to open.

    In essence, they went on to say that this means that if I select Hotham as my resort for use of the pass with, and they reopen when they say they will on 19th August, it means that they will have been closed for 66% of the season hence I will be eligible for that much of a refund on my pass and the rest of the season will cost me about $364 to hold on to my pass. If they don't reopen at all, the four days they were able to open at the start of the season (this week just gone) means that I would not get a full refund but a 95% refund, so it will cost me about $40 for the chance that they will reopen...so I can live with that.

    That to me is a good enough reason and cost effective way to keep the pass, and the clarity that the Epic Coverage has not rolled out yet, but it will be rolled out so we can select our "home resort" as they called it, means that I now feel much more comfortable keeping my pass.

    That ain't bad in my book, thought it was good info to share. They seem like they're trying the people at the Hotham ticket office they've been really good with me so far in all of this, hats off to them!
     
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  2. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    so why not put that somewhere accessible to the public? it needs to be made very clear to all EAP holders by tomorrow, the deadline for full refunds. Counting the 4 days as open when you had SFA chance of using your pass really stinks.

    But thanks for posting the info.
     
  3. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    I don’t know this forum week enough I thought this would be the most public place. If there is a better place to post it please tell me it just put up a link where it will be seen more. Yes this needs to be seen by more people before the deadline.
     
  4. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Here in 'Snow Talk' seems good to me.
     
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  5. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry, I'm not saying you should have done anything different. Vail should be the ones emailing everyone about it.
     
  6. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Ahh I'm glad this is the right spot to put info like this, I was hoping so.

    Totally agree, this is great that Epic Coverage is still a useful thing for EAP holders but honestly why is this not something they'd put up on their website along with everything else to reassure people that they're covered in all of this? I'm glad that it sounds like Epic Coverage has my back but I'm pretty annoyed I had to go digging for it. Not too sure about these Vail folks.

    Just to be clear, this information was from a tickets@hotham representative in an email, so while it's not an official Vail announcement to me it's as good as and I'm personally going to be keeping my Epic Pass based on this information and the premise that Epic Coverage is still yet to be rolled out properly.
     
  7. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Epic Coverage Terms and Conditions start page 6, with worked examples lower down applicable to core season single resort option on page 13.

    It also says that after you request a refund for your pass your pass will be deactivated, but for the core season option they say to request a refund between 1st and 31st October 2020, so if you want a refund just wait till the season finishes well and truly in October before putting in for a refund.

    Just gotta look out for that email when they roll out Epic Coverage properly and we can actually make these "elections" on our account.

    Now just gotta hope that this stuff gets rolled out so we can make these choices, it ain't Epic Coverage until we can do that!
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. SEJ

    SEJ Hard Yards

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    Great news- thanks!
     
  9. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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  10. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    You have an email that you personally can rely on.

    I'm still a bit cynical. Why are they not making a clear public statement? It could be lack of time, fallen between the cracks etc but my professional background makes me err on the side of caution when things are not clear.
     
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  11. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Everyone should email Hotham tickets about why they can't select their proper stuff for Epic Coverage, they will most likely reply with something like this, they are aware it's been delayed and said in my email that we will all get an email shortly with instructions etc.
     
  12. Crystal

    Crystal (Sly made me Cry) - Sand skier extraordinaire Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    best spot for it in here :)
     
  13. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Email from Epic.

    Dear Ozgirl,

    Today is the last day the 2020 Epic Australia Pass is available for sale and you are able to cancel your unused 2020 Epic Australia Pass and receive a full refund.

    If you wish to make an Epic Coverage election for your Epic Australia Pass, today will be the last day on which your are able to do so. If you do not make an election, your default elections for coverage will automatically be “Perisher” and “Core Season Visit”.

    The terms and conditions of Epic Coverage have been revised in response to the announcement this week of the suspension of operations at Hotham and Falls Creek until at least 19 August 2020. You are able to view current terms and conditions here.

    Thank you for your patience while we work through the challenges of COVID-19 and difficult snow conditions this 2020 winter season.

    Bring on the snow!
     
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  14. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Update on the EAP website.
    Just checked and you can now set Epic Cover preferences, but only for Perisher

    After you login at epicaustraliapass.com.au, the 2nd concertina topic is Epic Coverage. You choose Perisher or Perisher & Northen Hemisphere. THERE IS NO OPTION FOR FALLS CREEK OR HOTHAM.

    The home page at that site says
    With your Epic Australia Pass you will enjoy:
    • Access to Perisher in the 2020 season. Epic Australia Pass guests will be required to make a reservation to access the resort through to 19 July and on weekends until further notice due to limited lifts and terrain in the season ramp up and the requirement to carefully manage resort capacity.
    The only way I can read this is that there is no Epic Cover for Falls Creek & Hotham, except if you are planning to ski at VR places overseas this summer
     
  15. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Wow, so they revise the terms and conditions and rip the guts out of it making sure that no one can claim on their pass that they bought to ski Hotham and Falls right on the end date of the refunds...that sounds slightly illegal to me.
     
  16. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    The thing they've taken out is exactly why they gave us Epic Coverage in the first place, that's not fair!
     
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  17. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    reprehensible conduct.
    if they only made the decision yesterday, the date for refunds should be extended. not everyone checks email and other info sources every day

    it's not so much removing the option for falls & hotham, it's the lack of notice that appals me
     
  18. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    The terms and conditions say nothing about not being able to select Falls and Hotham for your primary resort, it's just not available on the account section. I don't get it, and no phone number to call of course, these people are joking aren't they!
     
  19. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They have been revised to omit falls & hotham in that section
    EAP refund Section A.2 includes
    a. Primary Resort vs. All Resorts. You must elect either a “Primary Resort” or the “All Resorts” selection. Your choice will be used to determine which resort or resorts must be closed to trigger qualifying resort closure coverage under this policy (and the applicable Core Season in which you are unable to use your pass if a qualifying personal refund event occurs), but does not change the access to any ski resorts that is granted to you by your pass. You can choose an available Vail Resorts owned and operated resort in either Australia or the Northern Hemisphere that your Epic Australia pass has access to as your Primary Resort for the purposes of coverage under this policy. When selecting a Primary Resort, you may only select an available Vail Resorts owned and operated resort, not a Partner Resort. “Partner Resorts” for the pass are Rusutsu and Hakuba Valley in Japan. If you elect to specify a Primary Resort, you may be eligible for a refund if we close the Primary Resort you selected during the applicable Core Season (see below for what Core Season means). Alternatively, you can choose an “All Resorts" option, which gives you the option to choose to have coverage for Perisher and Northern Hemisphere resorts owned and operated by Vail Resorts that your Epic Australia pass has access. If you elect an All Resorts option, you may be eligible for a refund if multiple resorts available on your pass are simultaneously closed during the applicable Core Season, as set out in greater detail below.

    b. Specific Week vs. Core Season Visit. You must elect either a “Specific Week” or “Core Season Visit”. Your choice will be used to determine when the resort or resorts must be closed to trigger qualifying resort closure coverage under this policy, but does not affect the days on which you may use your pass. A “Specific Week” is a seven-day consecutive period during the 2020 Australian or 2020/2021 Northern Hemisphere season. If you elect to specify a Specific Week, you may be eligible for a refund in certain circumstances in which you are unable to use your pass during the Specific Week you selected. If you elect Core Season Visit, you may be eligible for a refund in certain circumstances in which you are unable to use your pass during the applicable Core Season. For the purposes of this policy, "Core Season" is the time period used to define the period or percentage of the applicable season impacted by the qualifying resort closure(s) when determining refunds under this policy for Resort Closure Event(s). A qualifying Resort Closure Event must occur during the applicable Core Season. Core Season is also relevant under this policy in the event you are unable to use your pass during the applicable Core Season because of a Personal Refund Event. The date ranges of the applicable “Core Season” for the purposes of this refund policy are as follows:
    i. Where you choose Perisher as your Primary Resort: June 27, 2020 through September 13, 2020 (the "Australian Core Season")
    ii. Where you choose a Northern Hemisphere resort as your Primary Resort: November 26, 2020 through April 4, 2021 (the "NH Core Season")
    iii. Where you choose All Resorts: the Australian Core Season and the NH Core Season.
     
  20. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    still no email here.

    I need to make the call now as I may be tied up all afternoon
     
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  21. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yup - this is very odd.

    Their local legal team are either off with the fairies or they have seconded their social media creatives to rewrite their contracts.

    So, without asking or consenting I was given free insurance which essentially cannot be claimed against and that in some way indemnifies Vail against ordinary legal claims arising from their abrogation of contract.

    They must be dreaming.

    It’s just as well for Vail that they are in a monopolistic position, because they sure as hell are burning through their goodwill - Aussies looking to ski overseas are no longer guaranteed to look to Vail.

    If the leisure media in Vail’s main markets pick this up and their US clientele see what’s ahead for them they’ll be pushing a rock uphill, rather than getting skiers onto their lifts.

    Vail’s share price is predicated on future earnings, and when the financial markets, including their creditors and shareholders realise what Vail has done down south and what consequently is ahead for Vail and its clients up North it no doubt will impact on their share price.

    They will get exactly what they deserve.
     
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  22. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    sadly IME most americans don't pay much attention to anything outside the 50 states. i doubt that most VR customers will know or care what happened here
     
  23. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    The people at Hotham ticket office don't even know what's going on, I'm waiting to hear back from them. The terms an conditions haven't omitted Hotham and Falls they just haven't used them as examples in their worked examples, that's how I read it anyway. I hope they go bust and have to sell it back to some local owners or at least someone not at crooked as them, this is terrible form.
     
  24. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    and **** you VR

    I was probably going to cancel anyway, but in a fatalistic and understanding way.

    your attrocious handling of the epic coverage has enraged me. may your legal team rot in hell
     
  25. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve had 5 days at Perisher on my Epic Pass this season, and my son has had 4. So the gains from cancelling are not high, as opposed to the faint possibility of some skiing before season’s end.

    I mainly ski at Falls.

    So I’m not canceling and I’m also retaining my Falls resort season entry though I haven’t used it - BC access if lockdown ends before all the snow is gone.

    I’m not optimistic, and am writing off lifted access for the season.

    Vail’s dud reservation approach has put me offside and though I appreciate their commercial and practical constraints they have nonetheless been unacceptably mendacious.

    When I have the choice my coin in future will probably go elsewhere.
     
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  26. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Here’s hoping VR walk away from OZ. Their business model is broken now - Aussies skiing overseas won’t preference Vail here on in.
     
  27. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    caveat emptor!!!
    Look that one up if Latin is not your thing.

    I have said this before but with all this drama I feel sorry for skiers who prefer ski lifts, warm chalets and that kind of stuff. Un groomed BC XC skiing and snow camping are the best options until the plague goes away in 2025???, and for other reasons too.

    We also need some decent snow to do this no matter what your snow sport is.
     
  28. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Interesting...even if we select Perisher, as Victorians we are still subject to "personal refund event a" a STAY AT HOME ORDER so we can't get to Perisher and this order is in place for over 30 days which is sets out here (page 8).

    As mad as I am, and as much as we should still be able to select Hotham/Falls...wouldn't this mean that all Victorian pass holders are eligible for one of these refunds based on this?
     
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  29. Ramus

    Ramus Hard Yards

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    So my deep suspicion of Epic coverage couple days ago turn out to be true...glad I've made the decision to request refund.
     
  30. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Dude, you are being conned. VR are scoundrels. The season is done like a dinner :-(. Get a refund ASAP even if you die trying . Pulling your business out from VR after they have inserted a barbed wire enema into most Antipodean ski lift skiers is the least you can do. If you get any money back then buy a nice hybrid bicycle. I love XC skiing the terrain near Falls and Hotham/ Dinner Plain but the resorts there are merely snow clearing road access services for people like me.
    So far we plank people have not had enough snow to ski on a regular basis i.e. 4 times a week if possible. The possibility of being locked at home in the leper colony until October is real.
     
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  31. Ramus

    Ramus Hard Yards

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    It is very likely "STAY AT HOME ORDER" will be lifted before season ends, but the state border wouldn't so easily be opened. Therefore can't trigger personal refund event.
     
  32. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    In addition to this Many ski forum members look forward to skiing the Main range in Mid October with skins and BC skis. This may not be possible for keen Victorian skiers in 2020 .
     
  33. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    I know, I'm kidding myself, guess I'll just get out the guitars and write some songs about how much Vail suck.
     
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  34. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Do you know about the fellow whose guitar was smashed by airline baggage handlers in the USA ?. His song savagely sending them up went viral on the inter webby and the carrier had to settle with the aggrieved person for a tidy sum.
     
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  35. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Rather serenade them lassies!
     
  36. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I gave Vail some feedback:

    “This message is for your marketing, legal and management team.

    It is neither a threat or a request, but an observation on the likely class action Vail is likely to face here in Australia and possibly overseas - from clients and investors.

    The unprecedented challenges faced by yourselves and Australians due to the pandemic and climate change is taken as read, and is accounted for in my comments below.

    To wit, my experience is shared by thousands of your Australian clients, and judging by your modus operandi, probably your Northern Hemisphere clients too.

    At the hub of the matter is this: Vail oversold passes, and then chose to preference high margin short stay visitors (new clients), while denying service delivery to existing clients (Epic pass holders). The Epic reservation system locked out the majority of Epic pass holders.

    Vail has chosen to book prepaid revenue while not delivering a service, and simultaneously front loaded its high margin short stay revenue, neglecting its established clients.

    The personal situation described below is an example only:

    In the Epic coverage for myself and my son Perisher/ overseas resorts are the only options, excluding Falls Creek or Hotham as at 12 July, the day of cancellation or acceptance for the Epic Pass and insurance coverage.

    I am Victorian, and normally ski Falls Creek.

    Also, given travel restrictions I am unable to ski Persisher.

    There is no possibility to select this in the insurance section.

    As I have used my Epic Pass for only 5 days ( As limited by the failed Epic Pass reservation system) , and my son for 4 I gain absolutely nothing from the option of cancelling my pass, and equally, gain nothing from the insurance.

    I was in a position to use my pass fully over past three weeks, but could only access 5 days. I have paid for a full season, but only have five days.

    Under your T’s and C’s the refund I can claim on a cancellation is neglible, and your insurance is also worthless.

    Essentially Vail has varied its T’s and C’s on the Epic Pass mendaciously. I point out that as at 12/07 the sales page still promises a full season’s skiing.

    While it may have done so within the literal terms of its T’s and C’s Vail has neither been honest or upfront - in its sales, its bookings and its reservations and its insurance.

    Vail has taken my money but will not deliver a service. Under Australian consumer law this will not stand, despite the very creative disclaimers in your contracts.

    Additionally , the ongoing IT and client service systems failure in your Epic reservations system has been an undeniable breach of good faith with your clients.

    I will point out this - Vail’s Epic pass strategy for Australians has been to direct our overseas ski spend to it’s resorts. Vail’s Australian monopolistic position aside, it’s current treatment of Australians puts a red line through this strategy.

    At the very least Vail Australia’s management have impacted your share price - you will need to write down the goodwill on your Hotham/Falls/Perisher purchase, and also realise you have foregone future sales in Northern and Southern Hemisphere markets given the market response to your short term avarice.

    Financial markets and the Retail media both here and overseas will have taken note of the implications of your current actions for your revenue ahead, and consequently the impact of your current sttrategy on your solvency.

    For the sake of your shareholders I urge you to reconsider your current approach.

    Taking people’s money, booking the revenue, but not delivering the service and not offering a commensurate refund is not ethical, and not legal either, no matter how much wriggle room you have tried to create for yourselves,

    I point out that Australian Epic pass holders, especially those in your target market of overseas skiers are multi-season skiers, and that your actions in 2020 will shape their purchasing decisions for decades to come.

    By its current actions Vail has irrevocably tarnished its brand in Australia and this has significant implications for its future, both in Australia and internationally. The leverage of expansionism cannot be carried by the reduced revenues of a recession and its aftermath, especially when self-inflicted brand damage taints its future prospects.

    Shame on you Vail!”
     
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  37. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have now cancelled my son’s and my passes - I can’t see Falls or Hotham reopening and I can’t see the NSW border opening soon either.

    PLUS I expect the reservation system for Epic pass holders will make it difficult to access Perisher after the border opens.

    Additionally, the Epic insurance coverage is very creative legally, but practically nonsensical.

    If the metropolitan lockdown ends before the snow is gone we’ll ski back country.

    Additionally, I no longer trust Vail, and don’t want to give them my money in future, unless I have no alternative.

    I will in future preference Buller and Thredbo and ski non-Vail resorts overseas when I have the coin.

    Come back Merlin, all is forgiven!
     
  38. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    This was really their first season for Hotham and Falls, they're sure not spreading much goodwill.
     
  39. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    They’ve been dealt a cruel hand, but one plays the hand one gets....
     
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  40. Ret-ro

    Ret-ro One of Us

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    This is noted, I am yet to ski. But my investment is small as I get a work subsidy for my ticket and my daughters was free Based on the US ticket earlier this year. I will hang on with 3 weeks possible..
     
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  41. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yup - practical choice!
     
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  42. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Requested my refund 10days ago and still have not received funds..... hands up if you have
     
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  43. Sadie

    Sadie Chk Chk Boom Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    We cancelled on the 14th June and the refunds hit 2 days later. That was for the deposits though.

    We thought back then that it was going to be very optimistic that we would get full value, or any value out of the pass this year. The ticket system was always going to be a headache and with the limited operations, If we had have kept our passes, it would have been us paying for loyalty rather than a service.
     
  44. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    How it should be
     
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  45. Sadie

    Sadie Chk Chk Boom Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was yours paid in full?
     
  46. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Fantastic email to Vail, put it all much more articulately than I did. I love the talk of a class action, that's exactly what I was thinking would happen, shame on them!

    I just received this reply from Mount Hotham ticketing, copy and paste exactly what they replied to me:

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    My advice from management is you can keep your pass as discussed below.

    We’ve been assured by Epic that you can still cancel your pass after today should this not be the case and you will receive a full refund because you haven’t used it yet at all. This includes if we don’t open again in August.


    I’m sorry for the lack of information – I hope this helps a little bit and fingers crossed for some good news for the later part of the season.

    Kind regards,


    Hotham Tickets

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    The "as discussed below" bit refers to them telling me, as I previously posted, that I can keep it and get a refund based on time the resort is closed. At this point it feels like a big gamble either way, I'm sure the safe and sensible option is to cancel and get a refund but based on this email I personally am probably going to hold on to my pass and see what happens. That is pretty categorical feedback from Hotham that I will be safe enough one way or another. Am I a fool for buying into this? Probably. I feel like I've got enough ammo if I do get ripped to be able to make a case for getting a proper refund.

    Love the email though, great work!
     
  47. Guthega Girl

    Guthega Girl Addicted

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    I am feeling for all the Aussie resort staff.. toeing the company line by now would be getting pretty tiring. What an epic mess this whole thing is meanwhile over the Buller way they keep going... lets hope the actually reopen end of August for all the Bright, Omeo and DP businesses that RELY on this to keep their businesses ticking
     
  48. Young Angus

    Young Angus One of Us

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    Being in regional VIC I think either way I'm going to have to book a weekend (or midweek) up at Buller if conditions get better soon. I still haven't been able to try my new skis dangit!
     
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  49. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yep
     
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  50. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    They also keep folks cash for season tickets that can’t use them.... wait till September they say... plenty folks out there that could really use that extra 8/900 to say....live! Now we locked down, no mercy over there
     
  51. Sadie

    Sadie Chk Chk Boom Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m wondering if they’d tied the cash up and are waiting for it to release.
    Did you get confirmation of the refund? Our confirmation said that the refund will be processed in the coming days.