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Question Epic Oz Pass T&C - No cancellation possible after the deposit is made?

Discussion in 'Perisher' started by fenrir, Mar 26, 2019.

  1. fenrir

    fenrir Addicted

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    I threw down a $49 deposit for a season pass thinking I could cancel before the final payment is made (similar to what Thredbo allows). When I went through the fine print to see how to do this I saw this in clause 11b (caps are in the document not by me). It suggests that even if I want to cancel they will debit the full amount against my card anyway.

    Is this something Vail would seriously try to enforce? Is this even legal under consumer law?

    11 b. BY PAYING EITHER YOUR INITIAL PAYMENT OR YOUR PAYMENT IN FULL FOR YOUR SEASON PASS(ES), YOU UNDERSTAND AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE COMMITTING TO BUY THE SEASON PASS(ES) FOR THE 2019 AUSTRALIAN SEASON AND THE 2019/2020 NORTHERN HEMISPHERE SEASON. YOU UNDERSTAND AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOUR SEASON PASS IS NOT CANCELLABLE OR REFUNDABLE, EXCEPT AS PROVIDED FOR IN THIS CLAUSE. WHEN PURCHASING SEASON PASS(ES) WITH AN INITIAL PAYMENT, YOU REPRESENT THAT THE CREDIT CARD YOU PROVIDE WILL BE AUTHORIZED FOR PAYMENT OF THE REMAINING BALANCE OF YOUR PURCHASE ON OR ABOUT 1 MAY, 2019. UNDER THE AUSTRALIAN CONSUMER LAW, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE BENEFIT OF THE NON-EXCLUDABLE CONSUMER GUARANTEES THAT APPLY TO THE PROVISION OF BOTH GOODS AND SERVICES (“CONSUMER GUARANTEES”). GOODS AND SERVICES SUPPLIED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT WILL COMPLY WITH THESE CONSUMER GUARANTEES. YOU WILL NOT BE ENTITLED TO CANCEL YOUR SEASON PASS PURCHASE AFTER THE INITIAL PAYMENT OR RECEIVE A REFUND OF THE SEASON PASS FEES (OR ANY PART THEREOF) UNLESS: 1) PERISHER HAS FAILED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONSUMER GUARANTEES OR IS OTHERWISE REQUIRED BY LAW TO PROVIDE A REFUND; OR 2) YOU HAVE PURCHASED SEASON PASS REFUND PROTECTION AND YOUR CLAIM IS COVERED PURSUANT TO THE CONDITIONS LISTED IN CLAUSE 12, BELOW.
     
  2. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah its legal.
     
  3. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep. Only out is cancelling the card and hope they don’t chase you. You entered into a contract when you paid the deposit
     
    currawong likes this.
  4. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    They read your post.

    They keeping your money for sure now.
     
    sara777, Chaeron and chicski like this.
  5. IAB

    IAB A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Give them a call. You won't get your $49 back but if you have a good enough reason they may not chase you up for the rest.
     
  6. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Good enough reasons need doctors certificate etc.
    We did it twice.
     
  7. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I haven't read the Vail doc but the Merlin doc certainly makes it clear that you are committing to both payments, not just a deposit.
     
  8. IAB

    IAB A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cancel the card then.

    But keep a close watch on your credit file.

    Edit: Did you buy insurance? That may make a difference.
     
  9. fenrir

    fenrir Addicted

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    Only in the Australian ski industry would such a clause be considered acceptable, never had this issue with Thredbo. Why on earth take a 'deposit'?

    The crazy thing is I probably would end up buying a few days at Perisher in any case, the bit that has changed is my overseas travel plans which makes the whole thing uneconomic. Will call them and see if they feel like being reasonable.
     
  10. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    why is it so unreasonable? a bit unusual perhaps. you agree to buy something but you only need to pay a small portion up front.

    I see afterpay everywhere. never used it but I doubt they cater for change of mind.

    if you buy tickets to a show/gig in several months time, will they give you your money back if you decide not to go?

    I don't think the lift companies have been deceiptful here. they make it pretty clear that you are committing to the total cost.

    I have had to claim on their insurance when I was unable to ski and they were very helpful. nothing in Australian consumer law requires sellers to respond to change of mind. why should ski companies be expected to?
     
    sara777, SnowRabbit and Jonathan_P like this.
  11. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's a American company that owns Perisher.

    Personally. It's a good idea.

    It's not comparable to Thredbo. As you don't have access to 40 plus resorts from a simple season pass.
     
  12. fenrir

    fenrir Addicted

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    The difference is that the goods (in this case the benefit of a pass) have not yet been received as the pass is not active until the Australian season commences and runs through until April 2020. In the case of a concert ticket there is an opportunity cost for the seller if the ticket is cancelled at late notice, however Perisher does not place a limit on the number of passes that they can sell. Further a concert ticket can legally be re-sold where Perishers service is non transferable.
     
  13. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    I'd also say that there's a key difference in the amount that has been paid. To use an extreme analogy, you pay a deposit when buying a house. If you are unable to proceed with the purchase for whatever reason, the seller retains that deposit. That covers the cost to them of taking the property off the market for an extended period. The same goes for buying a car - you can place a holding deposit to take the vehicle off the market.

    In the case of the Epic Pass, no real costs have been incurred by Vail, so beyond the deposit being retained by them, if you don't agree to proceed with the sale for whatever reason, you shouldn't be up for the full amount.
     
  14. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    While I can understand that some people are unhappy with the terms and conditions of this transaction, a couple of things to keep in mind

    1 “Deposit” is the word used by the various people unhappy with this arrangement. The initial payment isn’t a deposit

    2 The conditions for cancellation were provided upfront
     
    currawong likes this.
  15. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    You should, because you agreed to buy the pass with a particular payment schedule.

    It’s not very complicated.
     
    currawong likes this.
  16. Anuj

    Anuj First Runs

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    Yeah, apparently even if you have the pass refund protection (insurance). It depends on the claim you make and for it to be assessed. You can’t cancel for change of mind even if you get the insurance and are happy to lose your deposit. What a shit way of dealing business.
     
  17. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you buy a house you are liable for the full amount if you decide not to proceed. The seller has a duty to mitigate (reduce) your damages by reselling the property. You are liable to the shortfall if that is more than the deposit. With an effectively limitless commodity, which a ski pass is, the seller is not required to mitigate as they can sell many passes. Their loss is the value of your pass, which they would not sell if change of mind was a justification for bailing.
     
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  18. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    you can buy a season pass at a higher price closer to when you actually plan to use it.
    there is a special deal if you commit early to buying it, by making a small payment upfront. if you don't like the deal, don't take it, pay full price when you are more certain of your plans. the choice is yours.
     
  19. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This... and it happens more often than you think, especially in a falling market.
     
    LMB likes this.
  20. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Unless the seller fails to meet the contracted conditions in which case the breech gives you an out. Thankfully due to an undeclared caveat on a property we had became very concerned about after agreeing to buy, the seller was unable to be ready by the date. We were able to walk away. Thank goodness!

    As for the lift passes, I’ve made the wrong choice in both directions - bought the season pass when I’ve not got the value; not bought the season pass early and had to stump up the big bucks. Shit happens.

    Unless you can convince a Dr to declare you medically unfit for the season I’m afraid you’ll be stuck honouring the contract.
     
    sara777 likes this.
  21. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not so good for these guys a few years ago, although, I think the home purchase was a small part of their problems at the time.

    Just weeks ago, at the 11th hour in the hearing, Mr Wynne said the cheque and contract were just "negotiating tools" and they did not intend to go through with the sale until they sold their house.

    He said the agent acting for Mr Appleby had promised he would not go through with the sale because the signed contract was just to encourage Mr Appleby to begin negotiations.

    I the judge disagreed that a cheque and a contract were negotiating tools :) LOL
     
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  22. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don't know what the status of the rule in Bain v Fothergill is in WA, but it has been abolished in NSW. That means you could get damages from the seller because he, she or it could not give you good title to the land. Although WA conveyancing is a bit Mickey Mouse, IIRC.
     
  23. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    It was in NSW ;)

    We were just happy to be able to walk away once we got wind of all the issues that had been hidden during sales talk. The seller had upset a lot of people apparently...