Europe 21/22 Planning

sli1

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The USA and Canada are opening to each other and Europe. Double vaccinated people from Australia will be welcome. Surely people are planning.

While the Australian government "plan" wouldn't see us allowed to go anywhere this season, I'm really struggling to see things pan out that way. My prediction is that as we move to the virus becoming endemic we will have a pretty soft landing. Well before December we are going to see other developed countries out and about and visiting each other with no fear of lockdowns. There will be enormous pressure on the government to allow double vaccinated people to travel with appropriate -PCR test controls to avoid hotel quarantine. The support they get from the masses to keep the place locked up will depend on how successfully they are scaring people with irrelevant positive case rates versus the real measure of hospitilisations and deaths.

I booked a frequent-flyer seat to Munich for mid-January earlier this year with the plan to buy another seat for my wife. I keep going to the Qantas website to cancel only to think January is still a long way away and backing away. I'd have more confidence later in the season. The plan is to go to Austria and split the trip in to 2 main destinations with one week spent slightly west of Innsbruck to access Piztal glacier and Kuhtai and another week further to the east around the Bad Gastein area.

What have you got?
 

CarveMan

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What have you got?
All depends on child vaccination and how we feel about the travelling with kids & Delta situation. Wouldn’t surprise me if the UK is ahead on the vaccination front so it’s a possibility the girls get jabbed in London.

CG and both girls have UK passports, work will be quiet again and and we have picked up a good e-commerce consulting gig so it’s super tempting to spend the whole winter in Europe. Our level of antipathy towards Australia is far higher than normal and that’s saying something so it would be refreshing to leave it behind for a while.

If we don’t do that, the ski test is in Kuhtai, Austria second week of March so we’d like to do a 3-4 week ski trip revolving around that.
 

Kash

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The USA and Canada are opening to each other and Europe. Double vaccinated people from Australia will be welcome. Surely people are planning.

While the Australian government "plan" wouldn't see us allowed to go anywhere this season, I'm really struggling to see things pan out that way. My prediction is that as we move to the virus becoming endemic we will have a pretty soft landing. Well before December we are going to see other developed countries out and about and visiting each other with no fear of lockdowns. There will be enormous pressure on the government to allow double vaccinated people to travel with appropriate -PCR test controls to avoid hotel quarantine. The support they get from the masses to keep the place locked up will depend on how successfully they are scaring people with irrelevant positive case rates versus the real measure of hospitilisations and deaths.

I booked a frequent-flyer seat to Munich for mid-January earlier this year with the plan to buy another seat for my wife. I keep going to the Qantas website to cancel only to think January is still a long way away and backing away. I'd have more confidence later in the season. The plan is to go to Austria and split the trip in to 2 main destinations with one week spent slightly west of Innsbruck to access Piztal glacier and Kuhtai and another week further to the east around the Bad Gastein area.

What have you got?

You are ambitious but I really hope you are right. We are planning for early March (1 week off school for the kids or possibly April school hols for spring/sunshine skiing) to Japan but all will be booked late just to be safe. I have a few mates in Singers and they are operating almost as normal, travel opened to the vaccinated etc, partial lockdowns when things deteriorate which has happened a few times recently. Obviously a smaller population/area but with an equally conservative govt like Aus they are good to watch for indication of what will happen.

Seperately, have you ridden Bad Gastein before? Awesome area. Only done a few days there many years ago but loved it. Caught the overnight sleeper train direct from my Frankfurt flight up to the mountain for my first morning in Europe. Epic!
 

Sbooker

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My kids will be in year 10 and 12. I’m expecting they be vaccinated by March next year. I’m hoping for spring turns in the Tarentaise then flying out after a few days in Paris. (I owe my wife a 20th Anniversary present and she’s a sucker for handbags. I’m thinking something modest from LV - straight from their Paris outlet).
I’m kidding myself aren’t I?
 

sli1

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My kids will be in year 10 and 12. I’m expecting they be vaccinated by March next year. I’m hoping for spring turns in the Tarentaise then flying out after a few days in Paris. (I owe my wife a 20th Anniversary present and she’s a sucker for handbags. I’m thinking something modest from LV - straight from their Paris outlet).
I’m kidding myself aren’t I?
Nope, dare to dream!
 
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sli1

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You are ambitious but I really hope you are right. We are planning for early March (1 week off school for the kids or possibly April school hols for spring/sunshine skiing) to Japan but all will be booked late just to be safe. I have a few mates in Singers and they are operating almost as normal, travel opened to the vaccinated etc, partial lockdowns when things deteriorate which has happened a few times recently. Obviously a smaller population/area but with an equally conservative govt like Aus they are good to watch for indication of what will happen.

Seperately, have you ridden Bad Gastein before? Awesome area. Only done a few days there many years ago but loved it. Caught the overnight sleeper train direct from my Frankfurt flight up to the mountain for my first morning in Europe. Epic!
When I booked that seat earlier this year I didn't think it was very ambitious. Then Scomo started his March drivel about "keeping the borders closed to protect Australians" to appeal to the redneck masses and I straightaway realised I was in trouble.

January still feels so far away, Europe will be welcoming double vaccinated "safe" countries so I am holding onto a glimmer of hope that logic sees the light of day here.

Great to hear some positive feedback on Bad Gastein. I haven't been there. I have nothing but positive experiences in turning up to places in Europe that I don't know about. Last time we were there, we drove from Innsbruck to Mayrahofen (the night before was the first time I'd heard of it). Turn up to a place that is full of cable cars and gondolas and bigger than Whistler/Blackcomb!
 
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blueandwhite

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Yup, we rebooked our early 2021 Austria trip for early 2022 and at the time felt relatively confident (in the context!). Obviously not any more. I haven't cancelled yet as it was on frequent flyers so the flights can be cancelled pretty late with minimal penalty. The accommodation will need to be cancelled 3 months out I think. We'll probably lose a few deposits but frankly, given what the hoteliers have been through they can gladly keep those. I have some back up flights for Japan in March but I doubt they will even be used. We live in hope of course!

I do wonder whether kids will need to be vaccinated as well come the time. So many uncertainties.
 
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Zeroz

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If they let us out we will be going.
Over the last decade most of our annual trips have been to Europe because of the off-piste choices, culture, sexy accents.

But in 2022 how could travel insurance co's cover Covid? Surely they'll just exclude it, like sky diving.
For healthcare you'd much rather be in Europe and get sick versus the USA where a hospital stay can easily be +$200k

I'd expect France etc to require vax to buy a lift ticket, Better than sharing a gondola in JH , Utah, Montana, with a 'maskless patriot' .
 

CarveMan

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But in 2022 how could travel insurance co's cover Covid? Surely they'll just exclude it, like sky diving.
For healthcare you'd much rather be in Europe and get sick versus the USA where a hospital stay can easily be +$200k

I'd expect France etc to require vax to buy a lift ticket, Better than sharing a gondola in JH , Utah, Montana, with a 'maskless patriot' .
Travel insurance companies have to sell something….

And good point about Western US.
 
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sli1

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I'd expect France etc to require vax to buy a lift ticket, Better than sharing a gondola in JH , Utah, Montana, with a 'maskless patriot' .
That is definitely food for thought. The flipside to the health equation is crowds. The pent-up demand in the UK, France and Europe in general is huge. France and Italy didn't even open last year. It's going to be bananas this season with everyone being able to play again (except maybe us).
 
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CarveMan

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They will still sell travel insurance for a broken leg, lost luggage, car rental, etc. like they have always done.

But how will they even price Covid coverage in 2020, except for a ridiculous fee? Much easier to just exclude it.
But then nobody will go.

I did hear of airlines providing their own Covid insurance.
 

Zeroz

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Back in 2019 we spent January skiing off piste stuff in Italy, eating at fabulous mountain places.
I posted pics and said I ate pasta for 20 days in a row and still lost 8kg. It's magic.

In the large Euro ski areas you don't stop because you've run out of snow, you stop because legs are burning, need a breather.
The more I read about workouts for fitness, HIT, muscle building, the more I realise 'hey that's Euroskiing"
 
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CarveMan

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Back in 2019 we spent January skiing off piste stuff in Italy, eating at fabulous mountain places.
I posted pics and said I ate pasta for 20 days in a row and still lost 8kg. It's magic.

In the large Euro ski areas you don't stop because you've run out of snow, you stop because legs are burning, need a breath.
The more I read about fitness, muscle building, HIT, the more I realise 'hey that's Euroskiing"
The killer is when you tour in to some untracked BC valley, the skiing up high is magical but the exit turns in to full combat skiing. Done my fair share of that!
 
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blueandwhite

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That’s the best part about doing 3-4 weeks of ski touring, you can eat the contents of a patisserie every day and still lose 10kg.
I just use the lifts and put on the 10kg...

An enduring memory of my (albeit limited) euro skiing/boarding was sitting at the Diablo restaurant in Les Deux Alpes about two bottles of red deep with a plate of amazing French cuisine, and watching a snowboarder belly-slide the entire length of a very icy Super-Diablo in full view of the entire balcony. Good times! My wife and I still talk about that to this day.... Food, wine, snow, comedy - what's not to like!
 

Heinz

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My travel plans have been focused on NZ and Austria.

The hope was to be able to take advantage of the travel bubble to get back to NZ after missing last year. But of course the sheer incompetence from the NSW Govt has pretty much killed the bubble especially from a skiing aspect. Still holding some hope of getting over to catch up with a mate later in the year but even that looks unlikely.

Then there is Austria. If the Feds can ever get their act together (and that is vey big if) and the option for vaccinated people being able to travel and quarantine at home comes up I will certainly head back to Austria if/when that happens. If that is still within the ski season (unlikely) that will be a big bonus, but I would take the opportunity to go whenever to catch up with family. In the 2 years since I was last there 3 uncles and an aunt have passed away (not Covid related). I want to get back and see others before they go.

I rather doubt that skiing will be possible, so don't have any serious plans. Plenty of good options in Austria easy to arrange either going back to old favorites or seeking out new locations. Or there is always the possibility of 're-enacting' in reality this virtual ski safari that I documented last year.
 
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sli1

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Travel insurance policies in the UK/EU are covering covid.

I’ll be doing two weeks skiing at some point, not sure of dates yet though
The risk of one's own country doing something like refusing entry to its citizens due to Covid probably rates low on the risk scale in Europe. Meanwhile in Australia, how would an insurance company deal with the fact that nothing is out outside scope to keep us safe.
 
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skiflat

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I'd give my left testicle to ski in France in Feb.

Me and partner vaccinated but still can't do shit

Sadly ScOmo is on an election winner to keep the border shut

2023 will be an 12 week ski fest
 

LDJ

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Qantas telling me today via email they are planning to fly to London in December. So I might be able to visit family and then onto European ski fields wahoo. Only issue now is Anna P will probably lock me up for ever to get back into QLD or Scomo won’t let me leave to start with
 

sli1

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Qantas telling me today via email they are planning to fly to London in December. So I might be able to visit family and then onto European ski fields wahoo. Only issue now is Anna P will probably lock me up for ever to get back into QLD or Scomo won’t let me leave to start with
Fellow QLD'er. I'm wore worried about Anna.
 
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sli1

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I'm effing going.
I'm planning on Anna's current stupid talk caving pretty quickly. The thought of Viccos and NSW being kept out of QLD in summer holidays when they are 80% vaccinated appears ridiculous. If they can come to QLD without HQ, I just can't see how you HQ double vaxxed people from low risk countries and QLD residents returning.
 
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CarveMan

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I'm planning on Anna's current stupid talk caving pretty quickly. The thought of Viccos and NSW being kept out of QLD in summer holidays when they are 80% vaccinated appears ridiculous. If they can come to QLD without HQ, I just can't see how you HQ double vaxxed people from low risk countries and QLD residents returning.
The premiers are such populist fuckwits that as soon as they see the breeze blowing the other way when their constituents start realising how trapped they are, it will change quickly.
 

XTREMO

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I realise this thread is heavily skewed toward the perspective of people travelling from Australia, but does anyone here know what the status of European ski fields actually is with regard to the 21/22 ski season?

I had assumed that there's a 99% probability of resorts in Austria/France/Switz/Italy being open for business this ski season, and open to travellers from other countries. Given the fact that most of Europe has decent vacccination rates, I didn't think there's any chance they'd stay closed for another season.

Spoke to a buddy yesterday here in Germany re: planning an Austria trip for Feb and he seems to be of the view that its unlikely to be possible. He doesn't have any special knowledge. Its just his gut feel. I think he's one of the people that sees rising case numbers and delta scare articles and just assumes that worse is to come in winter.

I think he's dead wrong about resorts possibly being closed but I thought I'd short circuit the guesswork and see if anyone here has been keeping on top of things.
 

John F

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I'm effing going.
We’ve now got Etihad tickets from Singapore to Milan on 17 March with ultimate destination Aosta for 2 weeks. With the Etihad flexible ticket incl their COVID insurance plus Aosta AirBnB apartment cheap as chips and fully cancelable up to week before arrival it seemed pretty good risk to take. I agree (and desperately hope!) WA premier will have to cave once 80% reached and reminded they all agreed to a nationwide reopening plan


Etihad include free Covid health insurance (not just cancellation but medical, hotel quarantine etc) with Etihad tickets for travel up to 31/3/22.
 
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Hyst

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I realise this thread is heavily skewed toward the perspective of people travelling from Australia, but does anyone here know what the status of European ski fields actually is with regard to the 21/22 ski season?

I had assumed that there's a 99% probability of resorts in Austria/France/Switz/Italy being open for business this ski season, and open to travellers from other countries. Given the fact that most of Europe has decent vacccination rates, I didn't think there's any chance they'd stay closed for another season.

Spoke to a buddy yesterday here in Germany re: planning an Austria trip for Feb and he seems to be of the view that its unlikely to be possible. He doesn't have any special knowledge. Its just his gut feel. I think he's one of the people that sees rising case numbers and delta scare articles and just assumes that worse is to come in winter.

I think he's dead wrong about resorts possibly being closed but I thought I'd short circuit the guesswork and see if anyone here has been keeping on top of things.
I do not know, but my gut feeling is everything will be back to normal for vaccinated.

However much can happen - new variants can change the picture.

- avoid school holidays as kidds are not vaccinated.


Last Updated 29 August 2021 at 11.30 GMT

There are also links for other countries.
 

blueandwhite

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Think I read Scott is going to let us open international borders when we get to 80% vaccinated. Do we believe him?
 

ShaunQuigley

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We are planning back to UK to see family end of Feb and I am desperate to tag on a trip to France prob 1st week March. Kids 7, 5, 2. If the UK are vaxxing kids at that point we'll get ours done when we're there. We are on a one way trip to 90% double vaxxed, like no where else in the world and nothing is going to derail Scomo, who realises this is his only election salvation after his monumental gamble cockup with the vaccines earlier this year.
 
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blueandwhite

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Yeah my concern (well, one among many!) is that the rate of vaccination will slow considerably before we get to 80%. It's going to be hard yards getting those last few percent over the line and I'm not sure that these linear calculations people are doing to provide forecast dates for 80% vaccination take account of that. Time will tell. Makes planning an absolute minefield.
 
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chriscross

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Sure, it's great to be double vaxed and Europe is so tempting. But you've got to sit on a plane (or planes) for many hours and share the limited atmosphere with all the other passengers. Worth a thought. My mate, a retired Qantas pilot, says he's not getting on a plane anytime soon.
 
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blueandwhite

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Sure, it's great to be double vaxed and Europe is so tempting. But you've got to sit on a plane (or planes) for many hours and share the limited atmosphere with all the other passengers. Worth a thought. My mate, a retired Qantas pilot, says he's not getting on a plane anytime soon.
Whilst this is true we are quickly moving towards a state of play where covid will be freely circulating and your chances of coming into contact with it are elevated exponentially in everyday life, let alone on a plane. But it is definitely a consideration. Fighting covid would be a crap way to spend an expensive holiday in Europe that is for sure...
 
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teebee

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When I booked that seat earlier this year I didn't think it was very ambitious. Then Scomo started his March drivel about "keeping the borders closed to protect Australians" to appeal to the redneck masses and I straightaway realised I was in trouble.

January still feels so far away, Europe will be welcoming double vaccinated "safe" countries so I am holding onto a glimmer of hope that logic sees the light of day here.

Great to hear some positive feedback on Bad Gastein. I haven't been there. I have nothing but positive experiences in turning up to places in Europe that I don't know about. Last time we were there, we drove from Innsbruck to Mayrahofen (the night before was the first time I'd heard of it). Turn up to a place that is full of cable cars and gondolas and bigger than Whistler/Blackcomb!
My wife and I love skiing in Europe and Austria and Italy in particular
Done similar 'turn up' by train/shuttle trips to Gerlos ( Zillertal), Hinterglemm (saalbach) and Solden and loved each of them
Just before all COVID hell broke loose in JanFeb 2020 we were in Madonna Di Campiglio in the dolomites in Italy (7 days free ticket on a US epic pass which we had)
Extensive area with amazing views, geat food etc
Nearby to Trento and Verona both beautiful relatively small cities ideal for a few days to round out a great experience
Highly recommend each of these
Can't wait to get back and hopefully sooner than what I was expecting
 
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sli1

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Think I read Scott is going to let us open international borders when we get to 80% vaccinated. Do we believe him?
IMHO the short version to a more complex answer is yes-I think the international borders will open. I also think that ScoMo's view will be that double VAX people should be able to avoid hotel quarantine but home quarantine is likely to be a given and there could also be a requirement to give a negative Covid test to get on the plane at either end.

I think the greater complexity comes from which state you live in. If you are in New South Wales or Victoria I would be very confident of being able to travel without hotel quarantine. It gets curly if you are from another state which has somehow managed to avoid Covid entering their state at all by say, Christmas time. Do those states say "okay, we are now prepared to live with Covid, come in". Aside from international borders it will be fascinating at Christmas time whether some states are not letting other states in.

The whole thing is a bit silly. At 80% of the adult population vaccinated, everyone that is interested in being protected, has got protected.

Later Edit: There seems to murmurings that state border closures would not be lawful in a 80% vaccinated world. My basic understanding is that the border closures are aligned to actions taken to protect public health. The need for that protection looks much weaker when all the people you are trying to protect from the virus have actually had the chance to be vaccinated.
 
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Skifahrer

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Having already been in Europe, I can't comment on travel restrictions.

But I'm pretty sure that the European ski resorts will be open. Systems are currently being tested in which you can scan the vaccination pass (so-called green pass) together with the ski ticket when you pass the turnstile.

I already planned ski trips to the dolomites and Arosa and Zermatt.
 

Hyst

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We are planning back to UK to see family end of Feb and I am desperate to tag on a trip to France prob 1st week March. Kids 7, 5, 2. If the UK are vaxxing kids at that point we'll get ours done when we're there. We are on a one way trip to 90% double vaxxed, like no where else in the world and nothing is going to derail Scomo, who realises this is his only election salvation after his monumental gamble cockup with the vaccines earlier this year.
Think you have to wait some years to get 2, 5 and 7 years done. No doctor will do that now, or in near future.
 

sli1

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Sure, it's great to be double vaxed and Europe is so tempting. But you've got to sit on a plane (or planes) for many hours and share the limited atmosphere with all the other passengers. Worth a thought. My mate, a retired Qantas pilot, says he's not getting on a plane anytime soon.
I'm fine with that. Another year later it will be the same thing-still sharing a plane with lots of other people exposed to their stuff, so I don't really see the difference between getting on with it now. It will be two years since I've skied and as a 50 year old with a higher appetite for risk than most my age, I really feel the urgency to use my physical condition which will only get harder to maintain.
 

Hyst

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Just to give you an idea about vaccinationrates:

No skiing in the best one ;)

Udklip.PNG


With numbers:

Udklip 2.PNG


The picture will of course change before winter, but some countries in the Alps may be a bit low.
 

Skifahrer

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There is currently a discussion in Austria that après-ski should only be possible with 1 G in the coming season. This means that only people who are fully vaccinated have access. I guess they want to avoid a second Ischgl by doing this.
What I don't understand, why not doing a 2 G, so people who have already recovered from Covid are also allowed?
 
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sli1

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There is currently a discussion in Austria that après-ski should only be possible with 1 G in the coming season. This means that only people who are fully vaccinated have access. I guess they want to avoid a second Ischgl by doing this.
What I don't understand, why not doing a 2 G, so people who have already recovered from Covid are also allowed?
What is 1 G - 1 dose?
 
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