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F...... Horses

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bring back the Man, the Man from Snowy Riva...
     
  2. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The "Heritage Act" is doing exactly what it was introduced to do, turn the park back into a paddock. Poems and Movies are just part of the marketing.

    Look to the so called Cattlemen of the High Country group, it's all about access and tourism.
     
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  3. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Time for some ideological revisionism - what was Da Man from Da Snowy doing up there? REMOVING dem hosses....
     
  4. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The real Man from Snowy river was an indigenous Australian from Corryong. He was VERY good on horseback but being black he did n't get much recognition for his talents. When the movies were made they had to get some OMO white person to fit in with the bunk, rot and myths that are still being perpetuated by vested interests.
     
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  5. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    What vested interest, Corryong?

    Patterson said there was no one Man from Snowy River and that the character was an amalgam of several men.
     
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  6. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or he was the manager of Tom Groggin Station (which makes more sense, as Banjo Patterson actually stayed there). More likely is that Patterson created an amalgam of several people, some mountain legends and put some imagination on top.
     
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  7. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    This is just another story propagated by one of the various interests seeking to benefit from it. I echo the above three versions.
     
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  8. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    And just a bit further to add to the fact the story was probably quite fictional. The colt that got away and joined the wild bush horses would not be allowed to run with any mob of ferals. All males at maturity are kicked out of the herd or they have to fight to take it over. Only ever one boy. I have seen small groups of young males on Long Plain together. They practise their fighting and stay a safe distance from the the stallion with the ladies. They may follow a herd around but always at a distance. So I don't think Banjo knew too much about horses and maybe less about horsemen.
     
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  9. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I do love how they myth has departed from the Poem. The poem didn't take place in the snowies, the Colt from Old Regret wasn't a brumby, the Man from Snowy River didn't ride a Brumby and the mob of Brumbies was the villan in the poem. Plenty of people seem to think the opposite.
     
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  10. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Col Gibson Disagrees with you.

    Source attached
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Anyway there are too many feral horses loose in the Australian Alps and they are all buggering up the bush and trashing the high plains and they must be removed or shot and/ or both.
     
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  12. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's one version
     
  13. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey kids. It's fiction made up by a Sydney lawyer who once went on a short holiday to the mountains.

    Get over it and move on. :deadhorse:
     
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  14. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    The changing my in action. The Myth isn't set in the mountains, is inspired by a story that happened in Yass, 2 days travel from the mountains. The only connection is a character who was from the mountains.
     
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  15. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think this is the point of the posts here and the disappointment that the fiction is being used as a key tool to maintain feral pests in an environment they are destroying in lieu of destroying the feral pests and allowing a local yellow & black frog to live in peace.
     
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  16. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yep, it is load of old betty swollocks used to maintain a myth ,used by a vocal minority , without any science or evidence, to justify the protection of a feral animal that is breeding out of control. An animal that is not a native beastie and one that is seriously damaging our high country 's natural flora, fauna and water catchments at their sources.
     
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  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have had to point this out to many people. I was aware of that from Col Gibson and totally agree. Good for you to include it here and may I then qualify my previous statement that the work was largely fictional. A bit like the movies which are based on real events. I think Skifree has summed it up well and when arguing with someone who wants to quote this poem as a reason to keep the feral horses then the information provided above will be helpful.
     
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  18. Greybeard

    Greybeard Addicted

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    It would seem that members of this forum don't need any convincing of the feral horse problem. However, EMR (Ecological Management and Restoration journal) has just published a special issue on feral horses in the Australian Alps. EMR is Australia's premier peer-reviewed science journal linking the science and practice of bush regeneration. Normally content is behind a paywall, but this issue has been made freely available to all. There's a good mix of historical context, and technical and social discussion of solutions. Available here: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/toc/14428903/2019/20/1

    Media release is here: https://www.ecolsoc.org.au/news/2019/01/science-aerial-cull-feral-horses-needed-reduce-their-impacts-australian-alps
     
  19. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The old people know.

    It is sacred knowledge.
     
  20. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    It would be unAustralin not to point and mutter .... bullshit
     
  21. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  22. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Barilaro is throwing money at the Snowy Monaro, millions for cultural centres, libraries, playgrounds and ..... reports.

    Brumby money is showering down
     
    #222 dawooduck, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  23. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    snowgum, GS, luke1234 and 10 others like this.
  24. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Both Monaro nsw candidates are on 666 abc now. Barilaro sticking by his legislation. Labor (Wilson) will adopt the recommended knp management plan but won't shoot from air.
     
  25. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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  26. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wilson has the right idea, it works better if you shoot from a gun.
     
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  27. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is backcountry, not convo or cv, but your smart @rse contribution is noted!
     
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  28. qwill

    qwill Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Smart@rse? I prefer #pedantwithflair
     
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  29. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    With the clear result in the NSW election the move should now be to hold Barilaro to account for his promise of an immediate 50% reduction' in numbers and further reduction to 600. A promise that he will no doubt deny he made. Unfortunately I think the horse debate is of small importance to the government now and probably of less importance to the average voter.
     
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  30. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Will be interesting to see, he romped back in with an increased margin.
     
  31. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Which means he can afford to ignore things and still keep his seat at the next election. It is often seen where the most important thing is to hold the seat instead of doing the job.
     
  32. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Team Bears like the version that the “Man”was a blackfellar
    and his horse was called Omo.;)

    Omo looked like the horse captured in this photo.....

    Now Omo was not particulary fond of smoking ceremonies and many the time would become aggressive to such events causing trouble for the Man from Snowy River ....

    Burning gum leaves were not Omos cup of tea!
     
  33. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  34. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    According to this note from the NPWS there are now 277 fewer deer around.

    "Just a follow up regarding last week’s pest animal aerial shooting program held in Kosciuszko National Park and other reserves in the area.


    The final results from the program were:

    1. Brindabella NP & Bimberi NR – 4 sambar deer and 6 goats (2.6 hours)
    2. Resorts – 36 fallow deer, 14 sambar deer, 15 pigs and 1 fox (5.6 hours)
    3. Big Boggy/Cascades – 32 fallow deer, 25 red deer, 13 sambar deer and 2 dogs (6.1 hours)
    4. Lower Snowy – 131 fallow deer, 22 sambar deer, 12 goats, 10 pigs and 1 dog (10.4 hours)
    5. Kybeyan/Dangelong – 61 goats and 1 pig (3.7 hours)

    Total: 199 fallow deer, 79 goats, 53 sambar deer, 26 pigs, 25 red deer, 3 dogs and 1 fox (28.4 hours)


    This operation was part of a 3-year plan to reduce impacts by deer and pigs on high conservation areas. The areas include the montane bogs and fens threatened ecological community. Other feral animals such as dogs, foxes and goats were also targeted during this program."
     
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  35. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Weren’t they fast enough on the draw to get any rabbits....

    And more goats could have been despatched if the helicopter had put down in Canberra for lunch!

    Better stop horsing around and get the equine critters!
     
  36. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Snowy Barilaro Council is proposing a Commercial Wild Deer meat industry for the area .... KNP to become a Horse and Deer farm o_O
     
  37. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well those hunters just need to aim a bit lower for rabbits....they can be tricky targets!

    Seems to be a bit of an environmental impass with horses !

    There was talk on the forum of “activism” well maybe you need to reinvent your younger selves .
     
  38. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not enough demand to meet supply or the prices required to make in an economic living outside an adjunct to other farming activities or hobby farm. Deer farming has been running in Australia well long enough to provide the evidence for this. If it would earn farmers enough to afford merc benz utes they would have been doing it years ago. farmers are very quick to adapt to better earning products.

    Wild meat products are normally constrained by pests in the meat (so only a small portion of the kill is acceptable for processing, roos was less than 50% last time I talked to a shooter about this) and higher costs to get the meat to market for than anything but boutique prices. So really very small beer compared to the number of deer. By all means sell as much as you can, but it will do stuff all to reduce numbers and actually encourage shooters to leave the breeding stock. And there is ample evidence for the latter activity here and overseas. This topic and evidence for this claim was covered in the Horse Management Plan.
     
  39. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I suspect it's more about guns and recreational hunting access than anything else.
     
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  40. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its also a way for Council to appear to be doing something about deer. Due to deer's status as game there isn't much council (or the more probably agency, LLS) can do. Without knowing who initiated this press release its hard to make any reliable guess as to how successful the initiative might be.
     
  41. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Thought the game status for deer in NSW had been suspended until numbers were under control?
     
  42. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm out of date, thanks for giving me a reason to look it up. Deer are still game and there is licensing and restrictions when hunting on public or some one elses land. But since they have an environmental impact they fall under the biosecurity act. Landholders have to take reasonable steps to control deer on their land. There is a pest animal management strategy being written to guide landholders and agencies about pest animal management in NSW. My guess is this initiative might be trying to find a cheaper way for local landholders to control their deer, its just odd that its being announced by Council when LLS is responsible for pest animal management.
     
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  43. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perhaps a “go slow “protest could be organised by KNP staff....to bring more focus on this equine disaster.
    But they are already going pretty slow compared to their counter parts in Vicco....:whistle:
    Perhaps their “vision “statement could be revised...and provision made for “living in a degraded landscape and techniques that visitors may take “:p
     
  44. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Maybe define a new deer species, something like the long maned, fluffy tailed, poll deer? Then it will be open season
     
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  45. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    With the biosecurity act it essentially is. The LLS has the power to coordinate control amongst landholders and if necessary legally compel them to take part.
     
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  46. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    However if NPWS define feral horses longmaned fluffy tailed poll deer (poll cattle are ones without horns) as that then they can go to town with control measures in KNP, including something that works, aerial shooting.
     
  47. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    There is already commercial harvesting of wild deer in NSW and registered operators can also take in Victoria but it is only on private land. There have been some problems with the program as once the farmer registers he no longer has control over who shoots on his property. Some of the shooters have been less than desirable and others have resorted to poaching which includes shooting on roadsides. The harvested meat is only for dog food. So far we have not had any issues with parasites in any of the deer we have taken but you should always check meat carefully. The status of deer is currently under review. It is listed as a threatening species but may go to pest although the gun lobby are putting up a fight.
     
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  48. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    But what would KNP and the other parks and recreational areas do with out the “gun lobby” to rid them of the feral pests that have built up while they have twiddled their thumbs?:emoji_bear::emoji_bow:
    If you intend to shoot them then u needs guns...that means u require the services of some skilled hunters from the so called (and much maligned)gun lobby?:whistle:
    Perhaps we need to speak in kinder words about the “gun lobby”

    The scroggin eating bushwalking lobby seem to be very ineffective in dealing with the ferals in the Parks lobby!
     
  49. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The authorities could always set up something like a ..... "feral animal eradication force" to work in National Parks and State forests. Hunters are not there to eradicate, they are there to pursue the recreational past time of "hunting".
     
  50. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    The problem is that recreational hunters don't want to eradicate a pest as that would end their recreation, so they will leave does and only shoot some bucks. Professional shooters are given an area and told to clear it as much as possible. Sure they may ultimately be doing themselves out a business but at least there are some checks on them.

    The interesting thing about KNP is it is the National party stopping the shooting of horses. The majority of the scrogging eating bushwalkers would be happy for aerial and ground shooting of all the ferals.
     
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