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F...... Horses

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Wally

    Wally One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am canoeing down the Murray this week through Barmah. Apart from all the rubbish and 4wd rednecks, it is lovely to see all the horses, deer and pigs. But atleast PV have closed a section of the park to shoot foxes!
    This place is trashed
     
  2. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Snowy Mountains Highway safety fears as feral horse collisions rise
    Latest News



    The ACT government will look to officially declare feral horses a pest and update its management plan, it announced on Tuesday.


    It comes as the Invasive Species Council warned the lack of feral horse control is leading to more collisions in the Snowy Mountains and Kosciuszko park between horses and motorists.

    No feral horses were removed from Kosciuszko in 2018, a year which saw four collisions between cars and horses.


    [​IMG]
    Wild brumbies in the Kiandra high country, NSW. Picture: Karleen Minney.


    Environment minister Mick Gentleman said feral horses were a growing threat to Canberra "under the current management plan in our neighbouring states".


    Feral horses in Kosciuszko were given "heritage status" by the NSW government last year, limiting population control to non-lethal methods while numbers explode.

    At the same time a draft management plan for horses - which in 2016 recommended reducing the then-population from 6000 to 600 in two decades - was thrown out and the state government is in the process of organising a new management plan.

    "Latest research shows that feral horses are the largest cause of environmental degradation throughout Australia's alpine parks," Mr Gentleman said.

    Canberra's current management plan was last updated in 2007 with the government hoping to have another update later this year.

    The council's Reclaim Kosci campaign director Richard Swain said the majority of the collisions since 2011 had been in the Kiandra area, near Selwyn Snow Resort and Yarrangobilly Caves.

    "This is a ticking time bomb," Mr Swain said.

    He said with more families expected in Kosciuszko's snow fields and the failure to control the horse population, a human fatality was "increasingly likely".

    Documents released to the council under freedom of information laws show all collisions between horses and cars in 2018 had occurred in the Kiandra area, with six collisions - with two at the same time - the year before.

    The published documents included communications between NSW Roads and Maritime Services and a park ranger, who said feral horses could be "on and around the highway year round".

    In an email dated October 25, 2018 the ranger said night time was when most crashes had occurred, with the horses hard to see and not moving off the road.

    He said horses tended to be on the Snowy Mountains Highway between the Yarrangobilly Village and the Kiandra and Eucumbene River crossing area.

    "There have been near misses throughout this section," the ranger said.

    Grisly collision reports provided to the council detailed distressing scenes including one where one motorist had to euthanise a hit foal by bashing its head in with a rock.

    The park's risk treatment plan from 2016 - a year they saw only three reported collisions in the Kiandra area - said population reduction would be one of the best control methods to deal with horses.

    That same year one driver wrote to the NSW Office of Environment and Heritage and said they encountered about 40 horses on the highway, north of Yarrangobilly.

    These documents follow another cache released to the council under freedom of information laws which showed the government's own count of the northern end of Kosciuszko had shown horse numbers had doubled in Kosciuszko.

    The council said since the count started in 1998, horse numbers in Kosciuszko park's north, had increased from 75 to nearly 2800.

    Kosciuszko's northern section is just across the ACT's border and the ACT government and Canberra's park rangers have their own concerns about an unchecked feral horse population.

    The ACT government fears an established population inside the ACT would destroy delicate wetlands which provide the capital with 80 per cent of its drinking water, and the habitats of native species like the critically endangered northern corroboree frog.

    The council's chief executive Andrew Cox said the numbers showed the problem was getting worse.

    "If you're going to even stabilise the population, you need a far greater number of horses removed. There's a crisis going on," Mr Cox said.

    However, the government count the data comes from is criticised as potentially doubling back over the same horses, counting them twice.

    Currently the Australian Alp Program, a cross-government group, is conducting their own aerial count with more statistically sound techniques.

    But Mr Cox said the last count by the alps program took two years to be released after it had been conducted and action needed to be taken now.

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/st...-pest-amidst-snowy-road-safety-fears/?src=rss
     
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  3. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I had a handful of very close calls along there when i used to drive from Wagga. Snow covered road, 80km/hr, horsey runs out, nothing to do but take feet off and brake ever so slightly, horsey runs off the road at the last minute, stop and clean undies.

    Then there was the time when i missed a few only to relax and put foot back on the accelerator as the next 20 ran out. Hit brakes hard and then stop to clean undies.
     
  4. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    GG strings?
    Brown GG strings!
     
  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    It sounds like apart from warning signs.....I would hope they have “active “signs that flash out warning message about high danger of horse collisions ....

    They may need to reduce the speed limit below 80km....
    Not a collision you want to have even with bullbar at night!

    I could see myself creeping around at 60km/hr!!
     
  6. Kelly van den Berg

    Kelly van den Berg Hard Yards

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    Blimey it’s Anne !!
     
  7. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Which one?
     
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  8. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    The one on the far right.
     
  9. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Anne the Clydsdale?
     
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  10. Kelly van den Berg

    Kelly van den Berg Hard Yards

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    Holding the horse !
     
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  11. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So what is the horse’s (is it a clydesdale?) name?
     
  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Team Bears are shaking their heads in regard to land management issues!

    What happened to the good old days!

    Those car shuffles after dark must be an adventure in and around Kiandra..

    You would be better off down in Vicco even allowing for the nighttime activities of those feral deer?

    Perhaps an armoured vehicle would be necessary to access the Blue Water Holes on those dirt roads!

    Adaminaby has the big trout
    when is Kiandra getting the big horse ....at least we can market it this way and restore economic vigour into the region.
     
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  13. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Better yet open up a horsemeat butchery and sell real Bologna sausage as well People who rave about Wagyu beef have never tasted Cheval
     
  14. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Start spruiking the benefits of horsehide as motorcycle leather of for hard wearing work boots, lets spark a demand for horse biproducts
     
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  15. Kelly van den Berg

    Kelly van den Berg Hard Yards

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    Winston the clydsdale
     
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  16. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Note sure if this local Thredbo artist has a wicked sense of humour or is predicting the future, but painting a horse with Blood.....

     
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  17. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    For those interested and are able to attend.

    "You are receiving this email because you kindly were a supporter of the Save Kosci protest walk and you live in the Sydney area.

    And since I have spent the last hour typing in your names by hand, I'm hoping that you read this :)

    If you would like to see the debate when the petition that Save Kosci Inc started, way back in November last year, is presented to the NSW Parliament, it would be great if you could register here:

    https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/save-kosci-petition-protest-and-debate-in-sydney-tickets-66141116861

    The debate will be at 4.30 pm Thursday 22 August in the Legislative Assembly, Parliament House, Macquarie Street, Sydney. Prior to the debate there will be:

    - a series of short talks in a room inside Parliament House (RSVP via Eventbrite above)
    - a rally and photoshoot in Hyde Park, with supporters grouped according to occupation or interest - we already have the core of a Teachers group, an Accountants Group, a Skiers group ... RSVP via Eventbrite
    - witnessing the debate from reserved seats in the public gallery (RSVP via Eventbrite)

    It would be great to see you, if you would like to witness this further step in the campaign to save Kosciuszko from feral horse damage, and are free on the 22nd August.

    Cheers and thanks very much

    Linda Groom
    Formerly Save Kosci Walk organiser, now a volunteer with Reclaim Kosci."
     
  18. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm a bit concerned that the posting of the above on a public forum may cause a conflict of interests on the day which is not my intention so I will delete it shortly.
     
  19. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    the feral horse lovers are getting active in Vic as well, taking legal action to try to stop the eradication of feral horses from the BHP and culling elsewhere.

    supposedly it will be the end of the local tourist industry. it might put a dint in one operator's income.
     
  20. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have thought about this today and consider you should let it stay. The other side will have plenty out there. If the conflict of interest is violent then I doubt it will start with the anti feral horse people. I would not be concerned. It is a debate and healthy debate requires opposition.
    I am not sure where this is at presently. A bit cut off from the regular info during the winter. I can't see any problem with the tourist dollar but I could not Bair'd to see the tourist industry collapse because of this. A particular tourist operator running horse tours benefited with a 6 figure grant to upgrade facilities and is also promoting the FHAC, offering to run pack horses for equipment. Bread buttered on all sides. Again, this is all about money and not environment.
     
    #320 Xplora, Aug 2, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
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  21. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    brumbies may be an attraction for that operator. some other tourists may like seeing brumbies but I very much doubt that it is a significant factor in their decision to visit the area. i doubt that most tourism operators in the area would notice even a tiny blip if there were no brumbies.
     
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  22. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    By all means shoot or bait or trap all the feral horses and send them to the glue factory. I'm sure Selleys and Clag will pay a good price for them which will offset some of the cost and it will also be good for the fragile areas above the treeline.

    But deploying the occasional pack horse train on established tracks to deliver materials can't do much (if any) damage to the environment with the benefits that it retains a tradition that is about as ancient as you can get in this country and it would reduce the numbers of those ghastly helis flying all over the high plains in summer.
     
  23. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think @Xplora's point was that the operator in question gets plenty of support from government initiatives without needing to prolong the feral infestation of the BHP. I don't think it was a criticism of the use of pack horses.

    OTOH one of the members of an old cattle family has been happy to accept work rounding up feral horses in the not too distant past
     
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  24. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    One of the problems is this is not the case. There is no economic solution to disposal of feral horses. If there was it would be happening. The very exhaustive NSW Parks look into all aspects of feral horse eradication basically worked out there is an outlet for a very small percentage of feral horses. Pet food makers prices do not cover the capture, kill transport costs.
     
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  25. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The point is that this company wants to run 'eco' tours and support the FHAC on the one hand and then wants the feral pest (which is not kept on a lead) to roam free to reap havoc on the environment. They benefit from substantial government funding to upgrade accommodation facilities in the name of tourism and cry because they do not want a pest exterminated. In reality it is all about making money and the environment can just suck it up. That was the thinking with the cattlemen and will continue to be the problem as long as people can see they can make a dollar. It is the only company which holds a permit to take horses to the Bogong summit and the day is coming when that will stop. I cannot see for the life of me that getting rid of 100 horses on BHP will impact, in any shape, the viability of these operations. I ride my horses up there as well but we keep to areas which are not sensitive. Feral's do not do that.
     
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  26. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Alas business talks and guvment listens. No one else matters if there is a business and an employer in place.:(:cry:
     
  27. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Particularly one who employs backpackers (apart from family).
     
  28. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh well, I was trying to think flexibly and thought the money for pet food and glue might defray some of the cost.

    That's sad because I may have come up with a future advertising campaign for Clag.
    [​IMG]
    "Contains pure, free range mountain horses".

    ... or perhaps not? :confused:
     
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  29. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    A nice idea and I applaud your efforts. But alas such common sense ideas turn into public relations disasters once the big brown eye loving folks get onto the bandwagon of what bastards people must be to make this product and then make the kiddies use it. So yeah perhaps not.
     
  30. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm not sure they still use "pure, free range" natural products like horses hooves in glue these days. I suspect it's all chemicals.

    I just liked the slogan "Contains pure, free range mountain horses" and wanted to use it.
     
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  31. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    You might need to investigate the world of French sausage, calling @Telemark Phat
     
  32. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The abattoir already has an oversupply of horses and have said it will not take ferals. A hot potato they do not want to be involved with. Home are also hard to find and nobody wants the old ones. Horse meat goes to dog food now.
     
  33. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Australia is awash with surplus horses going to auction with many many rescue groups looking to save and rehome surplus horses.

    Letting horses breed unchecked in the wild is incredibly irresponsible and selfish. No "brumby lover" by the simple act of adding to the surplus horse trade by their callous indifference can ever claim to "love the horse".

    Eucha horse sales and similar is where the large numbers of unwanted horses and up.
     
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  34. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Evidence in the Supreme court concluded 2 weeks ago and a decision is expected in September. The bleeding hearts are claiming a huge waste of taxpayer money fighting the challenge.
     
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  35. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    And they are very blind to the irony in that claim.
     
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  36. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    We thought the same thing but I understand how hard it is for people to see another's point of view when they so dogmatically think they are right. I also understand these people to some degree. I have friends whom I ride our horses with and have stayed on our property, who support the feral horse but not all horsey people do. You do have to wonder what influences a point of view to the extent you would call black white in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A lengthy discussion for another time.
     
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  37. Greysrigging

    Greysrigging Addicted

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    We have huge infestations of feral horses and donkeys in the Northern Territory.
    The most efficient control method is culling from the air.....not everyone's cup of tea of course....
    Our vast area and small population base generally means less of a public outcry when culls take place.
    I also believe there is a 'cute and cuddly' factor that impinges upon the decision makers, particularly when it comes to horses and deer, something that is not evident re feral pigs,camels, buffalo, foxes and cane toads.
    https://nt.gov.au/environment/animals/feral-animals/feral-horse
     
    #337 Greysrigging, Aug 3, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
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  38. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe that needs to be the new catch cry - cane toads with manes.

    If we can cull Babe, Mopsie and Reynard, why can't we cope with Bambi and Thowra?
     
  39. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Part of the Furniture Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  40. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  41. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  42. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    I walked in to Blue Waterholes from the gate at Long Plain this weekend. Saw hundreds of horses as usual.

    But you know it is reaching next level nonsense when NPWS has to put signs like this up.

     
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  43. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ohh the Parkies!
     
  44. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is it called chaps helping chaps with the National Party or blokes helping blokes?
     
  45. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The sign has omitted the need to sing the Rolling Stones' song " Wild Horses" to soothe the agitated beasties.
     
  46. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Barilaro is another incompetent fool. This week in NSW parliament he was isolated by multiple speakers on the Brumby Bill and voted on the partisan numbers to refuse to accept a petition against his Heritage Brumby Bill. Not often that happens.

     
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  47. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    I didn’t often praise the Libs but Matt Kean has surprised me with his level headedness and apparent care for the environment. Hopefully this amounts to something and soon.
     
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  48. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    From the article.

    He said a "group from inner city Sydney" was trying to tell people in the mountains and NSW's regional areas how to live.

    "Don't disrespect the people of the Monaro," Mr Barilaro said.

    A pretty random attack on some vaguely defined group of people. Nothing to do with the actual issues. A sign of desperation when you don't have any facts on your side.

    We need to remember we get what we vote for.
     
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  49. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This about sums up the whole sorry saga. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...y-backers-are-vandalising-a-national-treasure
     
    #350 PMG, Aug 25, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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