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Opinion Falls Creek - Bouquets and Brickbats

Discussion in 'Falls Creek' started by currawong, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Again with the chains to all vehicles on an app message just now.

    Seemed to be some individual interpretation of the requirements this morning, depending on who stopped you on the road.

    I was curtly told "fitting chains to AWD's" and did so. Meanwhile 3 different AWD's went past without being stopped, sans chains. As I left the chain bay, I noticed that the sign was saying 2WD fit chains, AWD recommended.

    I did pass one Commodore on the way up that had got into strife and had a copper helping him.

    But on the way back down, the only vehicle in trouble was yet another old Nissan Patrol that had slid into a gutter on the down side.
     
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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nursery ? was chaos at some point apparently. The two white signs said everone fit chains (as they did when we went up at 7.30).
     
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  3. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nursery, I think, was where I took my chains off on the way down this arvo. It briefly ended up as a cluster**** because one driver up front and near the road couldn't disconnect the joint inside the wheel and his 2 carloads of mates stood around smoking and watching him. Meanwhile more and more cars stopped to unchain, which with 3 cars stopped at the front of the bay, blocked those of us at the left side of the bay from getting back on the road.
     
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  4. Sadie

    Sadie Chk Chk Boom Moderator

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    The sign at Fainter Falls said 2WD I think and then further up the white sign said “all cars” then the scrolling sign at the toll gate said cars engaged 4x4 excepted.
     
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  5. Slide Sideways

    Slide Sideways Addicted

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    Brickbats to this driver this afternoon. ...you sir/madam can kill an unsuspecting driver coming the opposite way... life time ban for you
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I used to think that was fun; until I learned how stupid and dangerous and also illegal it is
    Send the cops a photo
     
  7. Stiffler

    Stiffler One of Us

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    Absolute f$&@wits who do this
     
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  8. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    so more chain madness
    lunchtime today they were insisting on chains at the overtaking lanes but the road was black to howman's. the downhill had a little slush to turnback but then clear. no advice on when you could remove of course so plenty still had them well after that. absolutely ****ing nuts.
    I've heard an argument that it's driven by the need for large chain fitting bay. in days gone by people stopped and put on chains where they were needed, bay or no bay. if the lane read blocked, people understood and waited till it was clear.
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    And the loss to the driver is worn chains, potential tyre overheating, and risk of reduced grip in braking and cornering.
    The resort is being lazy and negligent.
     
  10. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Going down about 3.30 was pretty much the same road conditions. I was going to unchain at Howman's but there were 2 large buses in, and blocking further access to, the chain bay. About a dozen of us piled into Turnback one after another when we got there.
     
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  11. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Yesterday .Nanny state madness taking over the roads up to the snow.
    Can just see it next season Falls will insist on diamond chains , VIC roads being as dumb as dogshit.
    As above Marty McSly arbitrary recommendations that AWD Subaru being different from 4WD w diff locks.
    Anyway i complained they waved me on, the road was fine , never felt slippage , the snow was dry no ice WTF .
    Its obviously arse covering, so no ambulance chaser can get them in the event of a mishap.
    Its just a matter of driving v smoothly in a low gear , have driven that road about 500 x and have seen far worse.
    I think the biggest risk, is that someone removing chains will be taken out by a car going down the hill.
     
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  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think a portable sign or signs is needed, to mark say where folk ought to start looking, as well as where they should be taken off. Their positions should be changed during the day as conditions change.
    Last month a portable sign was put out early at The Overtaking Lanes after a dump but the road was clear nearly up to Turnback Ck - about 3.5 kms, with chain bays on the way. By noon it was clear to above Howman's. At noon, cars coming up were still stopping in the left lane at The Overtaking Lanes and were backed up to the blind corner.
    One take-out from a look at the visitation stats last year was that the average visitor came something like 1.5x that winter. So a heap of drivers have little experience of assessing the road for when chains are needed, and useful guidance is needed. That includes signs saying when to take them off.
     
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  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    My judgement is that driving with chains on bare tar involves greater risk of a crash and loss to the vehicle owner.
    If that's correct, the resort is raising its exposure to liability claims, not reducing it.
     
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  14. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    You are prolly right Ziggy about chains on a bare road .
    Also that most drivers have little experience.
    I drive around in slippery mud most days over winter so am used to it.
     
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  15. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey @Ziggy think my son sat next to you on a chair!
    What a lovely 4 days we’ve just had at Falls, so magic. With roads the way they were at Hotham where we’d normally be, it was a great choice. I kind of like Falls approach to chains which is far less nanny state than Hotham, they seem to let folks apply at least a little common sense.
    Restaurants and food in general shits all over Hotham.
    Loved the village vibe under fresh snow.
    They just need to build or replace a few lifts, especially International which has the best vertical on the hill. They could even take it lower, and or push on through over the top and down the next valley, then up again to McKay.
    That would be awesome, and bring Falls terrain up to similar area as Perisher.
     
  16. Alfred14

    Alfred14 Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sure did. Fine young feller.
    Yep, you had some of the best days I've seen up there.
     
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  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, if you replace rubber with hardened steel in the contact patch and if the links get pressed into the tyre rather than the bitumen, you've got less grip.
    I appreciate the business has to be managed for the lowest common denominator, but they could do that much better.
     
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, that bowl is part of my sidecountry. There's not enough drop to make a lift worthwhile, there's peat bogs there, and you wouldn't get a link from the bottom to McKay I'm afraid.
     
  20. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    And let’s hope they never do...
     
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  21. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    I dont think there will ever be any actual new lifted terrain at Falls.
    The slope above faces west not the greatest direction either.
    Due to its remoteness and weather, Mt McKay is nice for marketing people to blab about but it wont happen.
    Sort of agree that pushing tourers further away is not good considering it takes for ever to get out of the ski area.
     
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  22. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If it ain’t broke y fix it
     
  23. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Saying that a Thredbo style one way ticket would be the bees for kiting and touring :love:
     
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  24. Slide Sideways

    Slide Sideways Addicted

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    On the chains debate....

    Let's say I choose not to fit chains on my AWD vehicle when it's "recommended to fit" I go over the edge. ..or....put it into the wall.
    Other than embarrassment, am I eligible for some costs? Fine?

    This morning I wasn't going to fit, as road was slush and vehcle wasn't slipping in low 4wd....decided while at traffic hold up of 15 mins to throw them on rather than on in 5km up the road
     
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah.

    It's not that hard to ski or boot pack out there.

    Shredder numbers come and go. They're back this season and I admire them. Last week I walked up McKay with two young Austrian boarders. They were mountain folk back home and knew what they were doing so I didn't have to talk about safety.
     
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  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I gather you can be fined for not carrying chains and not fitting them when directed. Who has the power among resort staff and whether they're inclined to issue them in this kind of case I don't know.
     
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  27. Slide Sideways

    Slide Sideways Addicted

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    Another thing I've noticed, the slow driver pull over thing.

    Ive noticed the last few weekends, many of the "non pulling over" vehicle, are female drivers.

    Bouquets to all who pulled over this Sunday morning 7.15am, really didn't expect all those that did, and all male drivers.

    Flame suit on.:whistle:
     
  28. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    There's a tourist return on Halleys FWIW. Someone here has said you can't use it with skis about you.
    That's no good for McKay of course. Eagle is probably the best. Ruined is closer but three rides. Or you can take Summit with a slide down old Headwater.
     
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  29. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Someone thinks you can't download on Halley's with skis or board?

    They are mistaken.

    Or do you mean a sight-seeing return ticket? That would be foot traffic only.
     
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  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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  31. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates One of Us

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    That's for walkers.

    How else do you get down in spring when numb nuts scramble has turned to slush and your legs to jelly?
     
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  32. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You can also download on Eagle carrying skis. We did this earlier in the July school holidays when the home trail back to the bowl had reverted to dirt and the queue at Falls Express for the shuttle was insanely long
     
  33. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I posted some info on the Lake Mtn page regarding this because people there are having the same drama. After considerable research last year regarding chains, which included reading all relevant legislation, I can say firstly there is no distinction between AWD and 4wd in the legislation. If four wheels are receiving power then it is the same thing. The only distinction is made between 2wd and 4wd. The only person who can direct you to fit chains is an authorised officer. Authorised officers have to carry identification and produce that to you on request. They are given powers under specific Acts (such as Alpine Resort Management Act) or as in the case of Police, every Act. Not every resort worker is an authorised officer (in fact most are not) but those who can hand out fines are. Same as not every Park ranger is authorised. They have to do a special course. If you are directed to fit chains by a random resort worker and the sign does not require it for your type of vehicle then ask for their Authorised officer ID. If they are one they will know what you are talking about and if not they will scratch their head and look at you funny. An authorised officer can direct you to fit chains even if the sign indicates it is not required. I would not argue with such a person but I would ignore others.
    No fine but if you damage your vehicle and want to claim on insurance then there may be some questions. Insurance companies play by different rules. I can't say whether you would be paid out for sure. I would suggest the recommendation for AWD is a bit of litigation minimilisation.
     
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  34. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Tourist return is a class of ticket for sightseers.
     
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Two weeks ago the FCRM CEO had a piece in the local rag on chains and the definition of 4WD. Diff locker, low range etc. Well, effective traction control supersedes that and you don't need low range for these conditions.
    Some AWDs have better TC than my 4WD.
    As posted, my Forester was better in them than my 2t 4WD.
     
  36. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I would take him to task on that. My real 4wd does not have a diff locker. I cannot find any legislation that defines AWD. Unless it is written into the legislation it is only a bunch of words with no effect other than bluff. If you have a link to the article (if online) then I would like to read it unless it is the Border Mail because it is paywalled. If changes have been made to legislation recently then things could be different. Quick search just now could not find any but I will look more closely when I get back from our BC trip. Probably should get moving.
     
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  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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  38. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    You can definitely down load with gear, many first timers do as they can’t get down any other way
     
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  39. BilbyBill

    BilbyBill One of Us

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    His authority for his definition was some Youtube clip of some person standing in a snowy carpark probably in USA pointing out which cars were 4WD and which were AWD. The credentials of the person in the clip were not explained.
     
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  40. neilmny

    neilmny Addicted

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    Pardon this rough bush mechanics explanation -
    I would guess that the majority of "real" 4WD's don't have a diff locker which is used to lock RH and LH axles together to affect equal drive one side to the other. What I think was meant was a transfer case which applies power "equally" to front and rear diffs. An AWD has another "diff" splitting the power to the front and rear diffs but this doesn't provide constant equal drive to the front and rear of the vehicle.
    The CEO should stick to what ever it is that a CEO does and leave the mechanical stuff to the mechanics and engineers.
     
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  41. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    The relative merits of 4WD and AWD have been covered extensively elsewhere on the forums. Possibly the Driving in Canada thread?

    As I understand it, a conventional transfer case is a disadvantage in snow because the front and rear wheels follow different arcs. In consistent soft conditions this isn't much of a problem, as at least one wheel will slide a little to prevent drivetrain wind-up or significant loss of traction.

    But in variable conditions, I understand that the drivetrain can wind up on a hard surface, then one wheel can let go in a soft patch to release the wind-up, causing a potentially significant loss of traction.

    OTOH, AWD's aren't consistently better. It depends on the AWD system. Systems like Honda's "Real Time" AWD drive the front wheels until a loss of front wheel traction is detected by the ABS electronics, then power is applied to the rear wheels. Early CRV's quickly earned a bad reputation for bogging in sand dunes because the "Real Time" system didn't, in fact, work in real time and had a very long lag. AFAIK Honda's system has improved since then, but I believe most Japanese and Korean AWD's still operate on the same principle of FWD until loss of traction is detected, triggering transfer of power to the rear diff.

    Systems like Subaru's, which power all 4 wheels all the time, are generally the best for maintaining traction. However, without lockable diffs, options are limited if you end up in the shit, such as being sucked into a snow-filled gutter while taking a corner a bit too tightly (eg when confronted by an incoming bus).

    Even then, Subaru seems to have a multiplicity of AWD systems. My manual 2011 Outback, has a viscous coupling. The CVT equipped 2.5 has an electronic system to allocate torque between front and rear diffs, while the 3.6 has yet another different electronic system to the automatic 2.5's.
     
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  42. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Brickbat - one of the best days of the season and Lakeside Poma is closed cutting out some of the best off-piste skiing in the resort.
     
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  43. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    you can still get to most of it
     
  44. Scott No Mates Ver 1.1

    Scott No Mates Ver 1.1 Addicted

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    But you can get there from Cloud 9, it just keeps the crowds away.
     
  45. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I can get to all of it.
    But with only 3 hours to play I want normal value from my lift pass.
     
  46. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'd say sliding off a bend is the most common failure, so the quality of the ESC system is a better mark of vehicle capability. After the driver.
     
  47. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    Boodwah, the reality is that driving to Falls car parks is equivalent to driving to Buckland gap on the Hotham road. I am sure if the Hotham car parks were at buckland and the road stopped there then the same approach would be adopted. Also the GAR is managed differently as its a highway and through road.

    Also a good comparison would be to picture yourself driving around 100m above the summit of Mt Buller in a blizzard, 100km/h winds and pretty much no viability. It has to be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.

    100% agree with the Falls restaurants and food outlets, Hotham is sadly lacking in this department.
     
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  48. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Under towers chair was perfect this am but by lunchtime it had been roped off without explanation.
    Maybe there was a decent justification for that but certainly not communicated.
     
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  49. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I haven't been to hotham for a few years now. We used to like the white room for a leisurely lunch
     
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  50. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I question the value of the rope barrier they put up in the lower sections between Main Street and Rapunzels, the same as between Scottys and Race Course and Main Street and Nastar.

    You admittedly get a marginal increase in safety possibly, by encouraging punters to stay off more challenging lines, but it reduces the width of the run and the ability to change your line.

    I suppose it also reduces the traffic on Nastar and Racecourse which is good for the Race Club.

    It also allows them to stop grooming and snow making on Rapunzels....

    However, reducing the blue terrain footprint makes the main runs busier and conceivably more dangerous so it can be counterproductive...
     
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