1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Apr├Ęs topics.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

News Falls Creek Hotham Alpine Crossing. The master plan. What a heap of horsepoo.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Mister Tee on XC Skis, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. legend

    legend One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,723
    Likes Received:
    378
    Location:
    lakes entrance
    On this trip, everything weighed 16Kg (including snowshoes, microspikes, 2-3 person tent, walking poles, etc) - we even took two lights we could hang up in the huts.
    It makes a HUGE difference when you have a good party along to share the breaking of trail and finding the track (the members in my club are great like that - always happy to help out).
     
  2. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Not carrying a snow tent, snow pegs,snow shovel and the like would be easier too I suppose.
     
  3. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Explain to me , please Sir/Madam, Mr./Ms. Flat Lander what you think is good about the FHAC Master Plan? Please extrapolate why you think it is positive step?
    I don't want to go down the " gate keeper" argument road but The ANP is a National Park. The prime directive and reason for it existing is to preserve and conserve the Native Flora, Fauna and landscapes and Not develop it into a theme park just for those who can afford to pay.
    If people don't like extreme weather or camping out etc. then they can stay at Fall's Creek or Hotham Heights and do day walks.
    Mr. /Ms Flatlander please examine the document in question. It was written by consultants who have never visited the area and don't care about preserving it for generations to come.
    The ANP is not designated for private interests to commercially develop.
    PV have no money to manage what is already there under our and their noses.
    The Present FHAC route has had quite a bit of money sunk into it and it has not become a household name around the globe.
    The Hut Log Books show the true numbers of people who are actually walking that route. It is nowhere near the fanciful projected figures cooked up in the FHAC Master Plan.
    The Park would be much worse the wear in terms of its physical environment if triple+ the numbers of people walked the proposed route.
    Have you walked up and down the Diamantina spur? If yes then what was your experience like ?
     
    #453 Mister Tee on XC Skis, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
    luke1234 likes this.
  4. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Why? Is it because you have no sensible answer to it?
     
  5. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    My position is clear. I am a conservationist. I do not think only certain sorts of people should be able to access the ANP. That is in essence what the so called "gatekeeper argument " can be boiled down to.
    Some people should not try to scale Mt. K2. Nor should such a unforgiving and wild place be made into a theme park to allow everyone with a chequebook to go there and try.
    The same concept applies to the Diamantina spur.
    The terrain , environment and weather up in The BHP/ Mt. Feathertop area is what it is . It should not be modified somehow just to try and make money out of a select segment of the community who have the means to pay for such developments and modifications. I take people out in the ANP as a VNPA Volunteer trip leader. The more people who experience such a magnificent place first hand , the greater awareness there will be that such places need to be preserved as they are. They are wild, beautiful and natural and should not be commercially developed purely for the fiscal benefit of some vested interests .
     
    luke1234 likes this.
  6. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    In other words, only "people like us" should be allowed in and no concessions are permitted so that the great washed have access.
     
  7. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,792
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    More woke than thou.
    What? So Mister T is opposed to building an escalator up Diamantina Spur? :cry_ubb:

    That's very selfish of him. Literally dozens of people (myself included) would welcome infrastructure like that, as instead of having to struggle up the steep track with loose shale underfoot, I could sit on the escalator steps and serenely watch the scenery glide by as I ascended to the Razorback. :angel:
     
    sidetrack and PiedPiper like this.
  8. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    Not true
    Could be true
    As opposed to allowing greedy people make money off other people to get access to a National Park which is at the moment free for everyone and available to everyone. The concept you assert has no bounds as there will always be someone who will say the current offerings do not suit their particular requirements and thus feel excluded. Are the huts going to airconditioned? Not good enough. Will walking on the track dirty my shoes? Not good enough. I need to wash my hair and blow dry it every night. Can I do that? Not good enough. I need a flushing toilet, will there be one? It is endless and a line must be drawn but that will then exclude people. What is the pressing need to turn the Alpine area into one huge toilet.
     
  9. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    It's still ****ing free if you are prepared to make the effort.
     
    Mufts likes this.
  10. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    But for those who do not want to make any effort and are more than happy to have their desires (not needs) met then they can pay but we (the people) have to build appropriately to cater for their desires so they can have an experience which meets these desires. All a manufactured experience but one considered appropriate because they have the capacity to pay and should not be deprived of this manufactured experience simply because they CHOOSE not to experience it unless their desires are met. Currently it is free for them as well. I can understand the need to impose a fee when numbers dictate. That is more a matter of control and providing money to clean up but this concept is all about greed and does not consider the consequence. If we are to take your view then we should do away with National Parks and open the area up to the highest bidder for complete exploitation.
     
  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    So what? Why is your version more virtuous than someone else's? You are not required to pay.
     
  12. weerab

    weerab One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Beautiful Altona Victoria
    Shouldn't that be the "great unwashed." If they are washed they are quite welcome.:)
     
  13. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Subtlety is not your strong suit, is it?
     
  14. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    I will type this slowly. The "glampers" have access to luxuries. They are likely to wash, hence "the great washed". The freedom walkers tend not to have access to such luxuries, so they would be the great unwashed.

    The line for a sense of humour starts over there.
     
  15. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,094
    Likes Received:
    18,518
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    And the line for "grumblebum" is empty, so it parades on over here.
     
  16. weerab

    weerab One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Beautiful Altona Victoria
    Sorry, I should have taken the time to read the posts properly before I jumped on your post. I think I might go to bed. :(
     
  17. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    After 5 days of walking the BHP area in a self sufficient manner for no charge ,during the 2017 Xmas break , I was very much one of the GREAT UNWASHED.
     
  18. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    You debate without ever giving explanation of your own point of view. I like a good debate but to simply ask why to every objection is not offering much in return. Perhaps I should do the same. Why do you feel a small group of people are entitled to have the government build something for them on public land with nothing more than speculation they can make some money out it. I think my version is considerably more virtuous. It does not discriminate, all can participate if they choose and are able to walk. Greed is not a virtue. Until you say something of substance then you are not really participating in this discussion. You still need to provide an argument as to why the NP should be privatised in this manner.

    I tend to wash every night when out if water is available and usually it is. Are those who wash greater than those who do not or is it the other way around? The plan puts forward the suggestion that those paying will not like the fact the track is available for people who do not pay and leakage onto the track from intersecting tracks will take away from their experience. They have said it would be reviewed later which in fact means they will try to exclude the non-payers and restrict access in the future.
     
  19. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    My point of view takes very few words. Access to national parks is for as many people as practicably possible, not just the smelly ones. Whether and what they pay is not a relevant criterion.
     
  20. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    You Sir are obtuse , unconstructive and somewhat vexatious possibly just for the sake of it and do not offer any explanation for your gain saying of anything being proffered in this debate. You remind me of a 4 year old who constantly just asks "WHY?" like a broken record with the stylus stuck in the groove , possibly to just see his/her parents slowly go around the twist. You don't have to agree with me or EXPLORA or TEAM BEARS et al. BUT you need to explain why you take a contrary stance.
     
  21. Mufts

    Mufts Potato Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,491
    Likes Received:
    3,550
  22. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    I wash at the end of almost every day of wandering or ski touring, I really do not understand where this unwashed concept comes from. It's not hard, bowl of water and a cloth. Repeat if a very hot and dusty Flinders day.
     
    luke1234 and sidetrack like this.
  23. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Oh go on. Tell me what you really think.

    Or you can actually address my point.
     
  24. MarkV

    MarkV One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    1,020
    "Unwashed" is a euphemism for lower class or anyone not from the upper echelons of whatever activity you talking about.
     
  25. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    11,529
    Likes Received:
    15,449
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    Agree, provided it is not to the detriment of the core reason NPs exist; conservation and protection of the natural environment.
     
    Untele-whippet and Gregah like this.
  26. weerab

    weerab One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Location:
    Beautiful Altona Victoria
    The "plebs" in other words.
     
    MarkV likes this.
  27. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz

    Hmmm, sounds like a derogatory term.
     
  28. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Except I used the term "washed". Unwashed came from somewhere else.
     
  29. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Using the term washed is effectively the same as using the term unwashed is it not. One without an understanding of the other is meaningless.

    Methinks you protest your innocence too much.
     
    weerab likes this.
  30. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    No.
     
  31. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    ROFL
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  32. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    I will type this slowly for you. If I call someone gruntled it does not automatically follow that I am calling someone else disgruntled.
     
  33. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Yep I had a bet you would say that. Just won $10.00.
     
  34. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
     
  35. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    It appears the time for closing arguments has passed. There will be no more consultation on the project and it is up to the the politicians to decide the fate. That may take a few years and the business case has to be prepared.
    I do tend to agree. It is more about whether the government, as it is now proposed, spends $34M (on current estimate) to construct it all and lease it to private concerns so they can drag some money out of the unwitting washed or unwashed who in fact could obtain a similar experience, perhaps more refined, using the existing infrastructure. Is this an appropriate use of the park and worthy of the money spent when so many other areas are struggling? The amount of money this project will generate, even based on the dodgy figures in the plan, is not huge. It is important for governments to encourage business growth but is that what National Parks are about? Are they the new cash cow? Private interests will see this an opportunity to make some money without a great deal of investment cost and very little risk. Perhaps the NP's could be sold off and privately run or make ParksVic a Pty Ltd. Payments for services or access to parks is very much on the table now and popular places already charge significant amounts for camping. I would suggest in time it is inevitable that BHP will fall to that as well. I have no problem paying for access if the money goes back to the park and I see the payment is fair for the service rendered.
     
    luke1234, Hully and MarkV like this.
  36. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10,102
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    legs fit yourself with a shock collar....
     
  37. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Perhaps I typed it too fast for some. Oh well.
     
  38. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel One of Us

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    868
    Yeah, this I reckon. I'm surprised that it's taken this long for the resorts to try and cash in on the ski touring market. Especially with all the promo shots of Hotham showing Feathertop in the background - makes people skiing the 'Extreme Zone' look like they're pulling themselves.

    There will probably be people with the cash to fly in and stay at the new hut to tour out of it. There must be quite a few really good skiers who CBF'ed with long approaches/camping in the snow/going unguided who'd be up for it. Whether they like booting up most of the lines on the east facing slopes will be another matter.

    Huts have been established in places like NZ without the sky falling in, but it is something that we need to monitor lest it go too far (some here already think it has). People say FT and Diamantina are wilderness - maybe the lower bit of the latter, but FT feels less isolated than Bogong; whether that be the resort and roads you can see, or the choppers passing by. In terms of skiing though, it's probably the wildest in Vic.

    I'll hopefully be OS by the time this all unfolds. If I weren't, I'd certainly consider using the hut in winter - why lug a tent up if you don't have to? The communal aspect would be off-putting for me though. I go full autism spectrum when I'm out there.

    It'll be interesting to see if it gets up. Rather than bemoaning the loss of Diamantina spur, it's time to put a track up here instead:

     
    Boodwah, sidetrack and Bogong like this.
  39. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,792
    Likes Received:
    4,420
    Location:
    More woke than thou.
    Weasel makes a good point. Personally I'm all for a few more huts and more walking tracks.

    But this project seems to be a waste of an eye-wateringly huge amount of money that could be better spent on a dozen more deserving projects that would benefit the local economy even more.

    No one has ever accused me of being a harsh, hard line greenie, but I'm opposed to the project because the consultants want to spend way too much money on what are basically the wrong projects.

    P.S. Please, no more sparring chaps. It would be wonderful if you could resolve your issues elsewhere.
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis likes this.
  40. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10,102
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    They are
    wasting money on this crazy over the top project....I just visited Cope Saddle Hut Ryder's and Pretty Valley....Parks need to be replacing weather boards fixing door hinges and windows rather than poring money on feasibility studies and consultants....the money allocated to tea and biscuits at these f...n community meetings could have made a huge difference out there in fixing and replacing existing infrastructure.

    Poor Klondike wood stove in PV Hut has missing formerly busted grate above ash pan....busted weather boards outside......like hello! The grate has been busted for yonks....just get one sent from overseas if available or get metal workers to make one!

    Hinges stuffed on poor old Cope Saddle Hut....weather boards just hanging in there in places and hole in floor because iits missing floor board.....

    This is basically Mickey Mouse fix it works but remains undone...while the white elephant project proceeds.Mother of god ..please direct some works to where they have the most effect for backcountry users.......

    And a new wood stove for Tawonga Hut in an insulated cattlemans chimney would be mini money compared to what has been outlayed so far on morning teas for management draft meetings!!
     
  41. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10,102
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    The Diamintina Spur is unique .....it's a lot more dramatic than the Staircarse and more speccy than Hannels.....it needs to be given the respect it deserves.....leave it alone....

    minimal track clearing and marking is most appropriate along there.
     
  42. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Quite right. Ban everyone.
     
    Mufts likes this.
  43. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10,102
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    It's going to be highly embarrassing for the great Iconic Walk when folk cannot open the Cope Saddle Door to take shelter ,then they are confronted with a hole in the floor.Scant supply of firewood in wood box.

    Perhaps the overseas walkers will post some pics of this situation.......that could be more than embarrassing for Victoria and Tourism NE !

    Hey look what the Aussies do in regard to Hut maintenance ......like f....all!
     
  44. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    10,102
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Lost that shock collar already....bad boy!
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis likes this.
  45. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    35,250
    Likes Received:
    34,468
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    So we are back to only the right sort of people being able to climb it again.
     
    Mufts likes this.
  46. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    3,613
    Funding for that seems to have gone as well. Call a 2 hour meeting at lunch time and not even a sanga let alone a cuppa. There was a fair bit of grumbling during the meeting but not all from empty bellies.
     
  47. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    184
    Wow obviously your objection was not heard or your opinion not sort!

    I personally dont care either way too much if the plan comes to fruition. Although I do think it would be great for NE Vic, it may well be an iconic walk one day, I am sure with the right promotion it will be. Just because you dont want every person and his dog up there does not mean they shouldnt be. I also think a well constructed walking path (aka around Cradle Mtn and Kosi) would work really well.
    I seem to remember a report from the 90s I think, that surveys had shown there were approx 10000 walkers to Feathertop each walking season (non-winter). Would the same numbers be anticipated on Hohum to Falls track, who knows, is this a money making exercise, who knows, although would definitely benefit businesses at the resorts and surrounding towns.

    Although sounds like its a mute point if, as you claim (which is true), that PV would have no funds to undertake such a plan. It will just end up as coffee table reading like all the others master plans eg 2020 etc etc that line the bookshelves of the various departments
     
  48. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    28,539
    Likes Received:
    24,311
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    One of the outcomes of the plan appeared to be to generate funding for maintenance. You could consider being in favour of the plan on these grounds alone @Ubiquitous Steve
     
    luke1234 likes this.
  49. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,138
    Likes Received:
    8,450
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The actual cost of maintaining the proposed infrastructure as weighed up against the depreciation of its value and condition in such a harsh climate would render any money generated in such a scheme to be null and void. Ergo : to keep the user pays glamper huts and new tracks etc. in tip top condition would cost more over a decade or two than it would to actually build them.
    Blizzards, bushfire, gale force winds, baking sun, ice, snow, flooding rains , vandalism, landslides etc. etc. are all conceivable issues that the managers of this new proposed infrastructure will have to countenance.

    Moreover no new business venture starts with 100 % patronage from day one, so any projected profits come from fancifully contrived figures that make the FHAC master plan reach predetermined self serving conclusions.
    Whether any such predicted profits would be funnelled back into overall maintenance of existing infrastructure elsewhere in the ANP or elsewhere in VIC. under the watch of PV is highly questionable since PV has had its budget gutted to the point where it cannot carry out the basic tasks of feral pest eradication and a host of other necessary tasks.
    Successive State Governments in VIC. have been somewhat anti environmentally friendly overall in terms of funding National parks let alone creating new ones such as the proposed Central High Lands Great Forest national park
     
  50. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    41,923
    Likes Received:
    32,486
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    So, are you for, or against?