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News Falls Creek Hotham Alpine Crossing. The master plan. What a heap of horsepoo.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Mister Tee on XC Skis, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    We hiked to Frenchman’s Cap a couple weekends back. Such an awesome walk, such incredible country. And a fairly challenging walk, especially in the crap weather we had and especially for my 8 year old boy who did well.
    Anyway, the new Lake Tahune Hut was a godsend. Such a terrific hut, with hydroelectric lighting, heating and usb power outlets. All done very cheaply and very environmentally sensitive.
    I wouldn’t have the slightest problem with a few of these scattered around the high country, particularly to replace some of the falling down eyesores. Get people out and moving!
     
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  2. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am opposed to the FHAC master draft.
    I have already outlined why . I am not anti huts. The standard of the Weston's hut rebuilt design is very good. If PV could replace some of the existing huts out there in the BHP area with huts like Weston's hut and Roper's hut then that would be good. Young's hut/ a.k.a . SEC hut as well as a couple of others such as Pretty Valley hut are very creaky and will fall down one day.
    Having a decent hut at Bogong Jack saddle would be good too. The present hut is not much chop at all.
     
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  3. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The falling down eyesores would not be that way if Park Vic directed its energies in the right direction!!

    Bogong Jack Hut could be rebuilt and pulled in on a low loader!
    Cost is negligilble compared to that money squandered already on this nonsense project....Like wise Langford Gap, Cope Saddle and Pretty Valley.
    It would not be hard to fund any of this.....Parks Vic just need the will!!

    Langford Gaps pot belly is a disgrace!More rust than metal.....charcoal and embers all over floor....how much does a simple wood stove cost??
    Blairs should be rebuilt in a similar fashion to the original ......

    Team Bears ain't buying this proposition that the wealth generated by this Iconic Walk will be used for the purpose of funding other Park works !

    This crazy project is just blowing away funds that could have been used constructively in many other areas.For such a small amount of money you all could have benefitted from monies wasted on these management drafts.....you could have had all those Huts attended to and many rebuilt.
    Both Weston's and Ropers Huts are well received by the majority of bushwalkers....these rebuilds were some very positive management moves by Parks Vic.....more needs to be done in rebuilding to this standard with community involvement of building professionals...Team Bears thought these rebuilds were showing the way of the future by Parks Vic but they have stalled......they need to oppose this commercial crap and to get back on track using the local rangers expertise to design a way forward that will increase visitor usage and benefit park visitors.

    Parks Vic have the professionals with the brains and necessary skills ...there is no need to get consultants!!They need to make their management plans and stick to them...not succumbing to any other group of fools!
     
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  4. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Our huts, not their huts.

    You're playing this for laughs now, aren't you?
     
  5. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well the folk have to pass Langford Gap and Cope Saddle ....remember the Huts are in poor shape......doesnot look real good on the glossy brochures....bad publicity for the project...embarrassing ....perhaps they might have to do some improvements in case the visitors take photos and expose this wank of a walk...neglected Huts don't look good to overseas visitors !!This will be the only way we may bring pressure to get a least some improvements !!
     
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  6. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    They were heaps of crap 20 years ago.
     
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  7. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    They still serve the purpose of providing a safe place in extremely bad weather......they are not crap....they have been left to fall to bits....

    I have seen parties of ten crammed into Langford in bad blizzard .....

    These Huts deserve to be rebuilt and maintained !
    They may look like crap...till you are in a howling gale ....then inside with the door closed they look pretty bloody good!

    The idea is not to let survival Huts to fall to bits.....fix them and replace them....they have a purpose......!
     
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  8. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More woke than thou.
    The Westons and Ropers huts rebuilds were done by the Huts Association. PV had nothing to do with them other than granting permission for the rebuilds.

    Likewise most of the old huts in good condition have clubs affiliated with the Huts Association as caretakers. But the less attractive huts (mostly old "SEC Cubes" like Langford Gap, Cope Saddle, Bogong Jacks, Cairn Creek) don't have caretakers.

    As PV don't have the resources to look after them, the best hope is to form a group, affiliate with the Huts Association and run a few work parties and fund raisers. I don't have the time to do that, but I'm happy to assist with the paperwork and run a fund raiser barbecue at my home in North Carlton.

    P.S. Please, no more sparring chaps. It would be wonderful if you could resolve your issues elsewhere.
     
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  9. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    In my submission to the FHAC draft I argued that the Old Feathertop lodge ruins site is a better place for a new hut if one must be built than on the top of the Diamantina Spur.
    It would seem that enough people opposed commandeering the Dibbin's hut site for this scheme so that it has been removed from the plan.
    I could be mistaken about that but if enough people protest to M.P.s then something sensible might happen. LEGS you love the word sensible but there is nothing sensible about the FHAC master plan.
     
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  10. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    What? You could explain why it isn't sensible. Ubiquitous Steve might help.

    Sensible isn't saying our huts good, their huts bad.
     
  11. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Team Bears are having trouble with the concept of National Parks being a "Resource"
    for harvesting ...tourism can attract expenditure in the areas surrounding the National Parks....but this tourism must be balanced by the overall environmental responsibilities that Parks Vic assume.
    Animals and plant ecosystems are not to be shoved down the list of importance...

    Balanced development should be the aim.....not some commercial get rich endeavour....folk prosper at the expense of the environment......

    Anybody want to guess at the figure of money outlayed so far....before any thing even hits the ground.....must be pretty staggering really!So far no benefits to the Park what so ever!
     
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  12. luke1234

    luke1234 One of Us

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    It's an election year, I'm starting to think about ways to kick up a fuss with my friends who agree this is an issue, never really been interested or had a taste for politics or even (ashamedly) conservation but this issue (and also the brumbies in NSW) genuinely upsets me :( It sets a low standard for the future, and it hits close to home.

    I too would be happy to pay a yearly parks entrance fee, especially if it meant that they could better uphold their conservation goals, work more on track and signage maintenance, etc, and stop mustering up plans to sell out to private enterprise.
    It's all words of course but would even go so far as to say that I would be willing to pay just as much if not more than the planned walk just to do be able do the walk without all the buildings and facilities which don't really need to exist. I would much rather they take a reactive view to new developments (only in response to environmental issues due to increased popularity in its current state), rather than a proactive one (build it and more people will come and give us money), and I would love to have the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is.
     
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  13. luke1234

    luke1234 One of Us

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    This is true, but most of the ones which are in iconic areas are not privately operated joints. It's like 5 - 30 dollars a night and you aren't paying for stuff you don't want. The expensive huts in these areas are usually the huts which are popular and hard to maintain due to their remoteness. Also they have a crapton more terrain like this than we do, and huge areas of wilderness, far more dramatic than anything we have in Australia all without any huts. So I don't think New Zealand can be used as a model for success in Australia.
     
  14. luke1234

    luke1234 One of Us

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    Yes, but as opposed to this plan, the hut at Frenchman's Cap was upgraded in response to increased popularity, the campsites there get very busy during summer as I guess you're probably well aware. I think it wasn't primarily upgraded in some bid to make more money.
     
  15. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am sure I have mentioned this before but to argue for the building of more huts is in fact agreeing with the plan in principle. On this matter Legs and I would have to agree. What you are saying here is that it is OK to build huts for people who do not pay but not for those who would pay. Revenue generated from the lease would in fact pay for some facilities used by those getting them for free. Toilet evacuation by helicopter is one. Track maintenance is another. I can see much of the track on the section from Cope to Westons becoming a board walk affair as it is already quite eroded and is often wet. Horse riders also use Westons spur and it requires clearing every year. Currently there are half a dozen trees down that will stop a horse but people can get over them.
    Blairs hut is already a rebuild and apart from it needing some pitching between the logs, it should stand for many years. The window fix by Team Bears seems to be very much in keeping with the rest of the hut. Something is eating one of the bunks inside and even in the worst weather I would still pitch a tent. Youngs (SEC) is getting regular maintenance and recently had new windows fitted. Unfortunately it seems one corner was built on a spring and the damp will rot the foundations. Cope Saddle SEC, like Langford Gap, are now the responsibility of AGL to some degree. These structures were never designed to last as long as they have. It would be better contacting AGL to talk about regular maintenance. There would certainly be an opportunity for the right person to assist them. Dibbins hut was a knock down rebuild by PV and that upset the Dibbins family so knocking down Blairs to build a fancy new hut would also cause friction let alone knocking down existing heritage to build a fake heritage hut. You will notice all the rebuilds were not designed with bunk beds because they are not for sleeping in. This is to encourage people to carry tents and points to them as a place of refuge more than free accommodation. PV does not have an obligation however to maintain a series of refuge huts in the park but understands some huts are well positioned to provide this in an emergency.
    Any hut built on the top of Diamantina spur has to show it has some ability to rake in the dollars from the walk. The person running glamping tours currently on the track said he would never take his clients up Diamantina spur. My personal view is that any person who could walk this spur would be able to summit Feathertop and walk out to Hotham or Harrietville on the same day. The project team see this as the challenging part of the walk but concede very few will take the challenge. That would make it not financially viable.
    One person at the meeting last week said the walk was 'contrived'. All the other walks it is compared with are through walks with no deviation. This walk has so much deviation and option that it becomes ambiguous and conflicting. It points in fact to a walking area more than a through walk, with many alternatives, side walks and places to explore not on the track. This is exactly what the resorts should be promoting and supporting. Let the glamping operators do their thing for those who want a through walk with no weight on their backs and the resorts can cater for the people who want a bit more comfort. In time, if numbers dictate, then there may be a need for some serviced huts. If the serviced huts were taken off the agenda then perhaps the current support from the resorts would wain.
     
  16. CaptainC

    CaptainC Addicted

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    [QUOTE="Xplora, post: 3589748, member: 65874"...
    One person at the meeting last week said the walk was 'contrived'. All the other walks it is compared with are through walks with no deviation. This walk has so much deviation and option that it becomes ambiguous and conflicting. It points in fact to a walking area more than a through walk, with many alternatives, side walks and places to explore not on the track. This is exactly what the resorts should be promoting and supporting. Let the glamping operators do their thing for those who want a through walk with no weight on their backs and the resorts can cater for the people who want a bit more comfort. In time, if numbers dictate, then there may be a need for some serviced huts. If the serviced huts were taken off the agenda then perhaps the current support from the resorts would wain.[/QUOTE]
    I would agree that it's contrived and see that as the main weakness of the proposal. Day 1 and 2 of the proposed walk can easily be done as day walks, Tawonga Huts isn't far from Pretty Valley trail head. On the Overland track you are only near roads at the start and the end. I wouldn't see them getting such huge numbers as many potential customers would feel they can do their own trip without a commercial operator. In contrast using the existing ski villages as a base for day or overnight trips would seem to play to the area's strengths. However politicians often feel the urge to spend taxpayer $$$$s in support of some private business.
     
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  17. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's right. These people should be forced to do the walk in the way dictated by other people, not in a way that might suit them.
     
  18. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    "I am sure I have mentioned this before but to argue for the building of more huts is in fact agreeing with the plan in principle. On this matterLegs and I would have to agree. What you are saying here is that it is."............Quote from Xploras post""................

    That surely is nonsense.

    Adding infrastructure at High Knob is totally wrong.
    It will have a large environmental impact into a visually very sensitive area.
    It will detract from the very pleasure of pitching a tent in such a lovely area.It will be an eyesore!

    Rebuilding Huts in appropriate places or for that matter establishing some new Huts where they will draw folk into different areas and onto different tracks and into different areas of the Park is justified.

    It's about appropriate location and need and amenity.

    Team Bears don't find to many folk decrying the upgraded Ropers and Weston's Huts....
     
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  19. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    My huts good. Your huts bad.

    It's not a very convincing argument.
     
  20. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Environmental considerations first Legs A.nobidy has the right to despoil an area with inappropriate infrastructure.
    You don't need to dumb down the trek up Diamintina...this development will change the character of this rugged "wild"Spur line....

    We have put forward a case previously that the
    rocky scramble over a distance of approx fifty meters could be avoided with some limited track works ...thus minimal disturbance to this area is justified on the grounds of safety and convenience.But you draw the line after that....just leave it as it is so it can be enjoyed by future generations of walkers without the trappings of man all over it!
     
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  21. MarkV

    MarkV One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You didn't actually read his post did you?
     
  22. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perhaps if your neighbour stuck a shed on your nature strip you would be personally outraged.......this is what inappropriate location is about...

    It's not freehold land up there...development has to meet the pub test...this development fails dismally even to meet the bottle shop test!

    The large majority are against setting up new Huts for the purpose of profit by commercial operators .

    Parks Vic need to act responsibly and give this the shaft quickly....
    This is not Tassie,nor NZ nor Overseas.....profit should not play a role that trumps environmental management!
     
  23. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I agree with The Team leader. If they fix the steep rocky scramble section and leave the rest exactly as it is along the Diamantina Spur walking route then it will be the best possible outcome for that area The track clearing that was done all the way up that route in November 2017 was a welcome bit of maintenance .
     
  24. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm sorry, but the champion of the huts decrying other huts is risible.
     
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  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Where huts are located is the matter of contention in this sub section of the debate.The BHP Old huts are not for private profit.
    As aging ramshackle shelters, in bad weather they serve a purpose that a number of them were never envisioned being assigned to.
    Many of them were built before the Alpine National park was gazetted. Some date back to the Kiewa Hydroelectricity scheme's inception. Others have a link to cattle graziers' activities .Two huts were rebuilt namely Weston's and Ropers hut but others have not been rebuilt after bush fires such as the Bon Accord spur hut.
    The Diamantina spur is a wilderness area, one of the few places in the region where from the top of the spur not much in the way of built structures can be seen.The camp site near the tree line on High Knob is a gem, and it should not be developed with a helipad and a user pays glamper hut complex.
    It is a fragile alpine conservation area within a National Park.
    Nuances such as these are not hard to comprehend. LEGS, you should visit the unspoiled campsite near High Knob and then tell us all what you thought about it. How did it feel to camp there?
     
    #525 Mister Tee on XC Skis, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  26. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    You mean the existing huts are not fit for purpose? Let them decay into oblivion. Make it a real wilderness. You are back at our huts good, their huts bad.

    I have seen some of the helipads on the access to Bogong. IIRC, you wouldn't know they were helipads unless someone told you. The huts, I don't know but I doubt very much that they will be the multi-storey chrome and glass monsters that infest your imagination.

    You are going to have to learn not to use the word "glamper". It smacks of elitism and distracts from your argument
     
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  27. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I do agree. Not saying they should build one there but then you go on say
    The need and amenity bit plays into the hands of those who need more amenity and are happy to pay for it. I do understand where you are coming from but the argument is something easily used against you and I am not a supporter of the project. It is OK for some huts to be built in some places but not others and the only difference is whether payment is required. I wonder how many would object to a free hut at High Knob? I would. I don't have any objections to 'glamping' operations as long as it is not permanent (set up then pack up after) and my objection to the hard roof private camps has always been about the greed of those pushing the plan when they have done very little in the past to encourage summer activity. I question their sincerity and see their motives as disingenuous.
    How does Johnsons hut figure? I know it would not be a huge profit but money goes to the club to hire it. There is a private section.
     
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  28. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Any construction even signage needs to be thoughtfully located....Legs would you like them to put a gas BBQ on Feathertop for the sunset expeditions by the glamper commercial enterprise.

    The masses want the existing Huts retained....the vocal minority want to cash in on the environment by having free rain to build anythIng to their liking in any location.....

    The initial drafts considered bench seats on Feathertop and in other areas of the walk...
    If the Parks where not making some effort we would have totally out of control situation occurring...with the commercial operators getting away with "murder".

    Remember that initial drafts also suggested restricting the general publics access to the areas of the Iconic Walk...it's the general public that's being interferred with....the commercial operators are more than happy to lock everybody else out on this route to try to maximise their profits.

    Team Bears say the glampers will not be too happy when their shinny boots get stuck in the mud above Weston's Hut....major track works will need to be under taken here if the Iconic Free For All goes ahead!

    Legs your shock collar is not delivering the correct amperage ....we suggest you call in at a vet to get the matter checked out!
     
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  29. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Weston's sitting right in the middle of raging controversy ....

    Note Nectres door has broken hinge ....has been broken for approx 12mths.

    ....still usable but should be fixed.....

    Possibly too much time being devoted to FHAW and not enough maintenance going on....
    Cannot have the glampers fumbling over a damaged wood stove....again very bad look if pics end up on Internet as draft management plans keep chewing up funds!!
     
  30. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am aware of Johnston's hut and how the East Gippsland Ski club manage it on behalf of PV. However what they charge per night is not aimed at making big bucks nor do they flog it like a new brand of air freshener to people who have never heard of Mt. Nelse. Overall I agree with your remarks and see the real reason for this scheme as being not entirely transparent.
     
  31. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    The word ELITE refers in the Oxford English dictionary to excellence. ELITE athletes and scientists are the best at what they do. There is nothing excellent about this scheme. Financial discrimination is what the FHAC master plan embraces. That is to say some people can pay to have access to user pays facilities that are being planned to be built just for private commercial gain. A national park is not for such enterprises. Just leave it alone!
     
  32. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    You all probably need to visit somewhere where there are commercial operators providing assisted walker / paddler / camper options running.

    Such as Overland track, Western Arthur Range, Franklin River, South Coast Track, Bathurst Harbour or Three Capes Track. Your fears maybe confirmed or allayed, but I suspect the latter.
     
  33. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh dear. Think again. Perhaps it is you setting yourself up as a member of an elite.
    Couldn't agree more. Do you have any evidence that it won't be thoughtfully located?
     
  34. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The mere idea of locating anything in a camping area ..a unique camping area I might add....Legs u have seen the pics! Will despoil this area....

    Give High Knob Glamper Camp the flick....surely Parks Vic Staff must be shaking their heads at this prospect ......a sordid eyesore inflicted on future generations....a truely remarkable area trashed!
     
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  35. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Save Diamantina Spur - have the glampers head across to Federation Hut site (only an extra km). Very protected, and have an easy access out if weather packs a punch.
     
  36. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wonder what the plan is for water supply on the Diamantina Spur? Would need to be pretty big tanks (and roof catchments) to supply showers etc and not run out over summer when they could go for weeks without rain, like this year.
     
  37. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Location:
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    It's a camping area ferchrissake. Presumably a primordial camping area formed when the Earth condensed out of the original dust cloud and hitherto untouched by human hands.

    A variety of our huts but not theirs.
     
  38. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Most people do not want any huts or infrastructure of any sort built near High Knob on the top of the Diamantina spur. The natural beauty of the place is hard to put into words. When Legs' brain materialized out of the primordial dust cloud it failed to solidify.
     
  39. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Unless it's a hut of which you approve.

    I think you are playing it for laughs now.
     
  40. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    legends suggestion is a good one......Federation Hut site is more suitable for there camp and will not cause so much environmental problems.

    Let the glampers put up with the tourists comming through to Federation.
    They can share the shit house with the common folk too!
     
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  41. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Glampers. Oh dear. Do you know what message this sends?
     
  42. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Do you mean Bratus glamperus ......!

    Yes legs what message does that send?

    Team Bears don't respect anybody that doesnot respect their environment....and causes it to be degraded just for their little sight seeing trip??Is this what glampers do legs ?
     
  43. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel One of Us

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    @Legs Akimbo @Mister Tee on snow shoes @Ubiquitous Steve

    How bout y'all start a private thread where you can vent on one another? The pattern of this thread is firmly established and is becoming more than a little tedious. There's a 'People You Ignore' feature on the site. I don't think I'll be the only one adding your names to that list if this keeps up.

    This is not about your views - just about how obnoxious this thread has become.
     
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  44. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Since the matter is now in the hands of PV and the State MP.s the best thing I can do is write to the Minister and implore her to not support this scheme. I shall leave this debate to go ever onwards in circles. Clearly we all need some snow so we can get out there skiing and lighten up a bit.
     
  45. telenomore

    telenomore One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The Overland track is a great example @skifree. Although I haven't been there for many years, I lead a group of international hikers there in the 90's and the huts were in effect almost invisible, built into the environment and the local guides employed by the company that ran it were world class, knowledgeable and well trained. Walkers still had plenty to carry and the bottom line, many more people got to see a great place and become advocates for its retention. I was very sceptical at first and reaction amongst the outdoor fraternity at the time was very negative but ultimately very impressed with its sensitive approach.
     
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  46. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Did you read this before you posted it? Classic elitist prejudice.

    And people can put a hut on my nature strip, subject to appropriate planning controls.
     
  47. Chaeron

    Chaeron Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak Ski Pass: Gold

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    What masses?

    - I’ve never encountered a crowd at Feathers..... unless you call three tents and 3 people in the new hut a crowd -certainly that’s BC overcrowding from where I stand.

    The last time there was a crowd at Feathers was probably the Victorian ski championships on August 10 1924 when over 100 horses and 150 pedestrians “left Hariettville between 7 a.m. and 8 a.m. for the scene of the sports....”

    Bring back the Feathertop Bungalow destroyed in the 1939 fires in all its former glory, including retro cooking, and prices, including the hire of horses from Hariettville for 50 cents ($9.11 in today’s money) ( horse of course to be shot on arrival to prevent brumby infestations)

    I’m all for ‘sacrificial’ development - satisfy the demand while keeping special places free from spoiling.

    The Diamantina bang for buck as far as the effort reward ratio goes is too steep when it comes to an ROI or effort for view analysis, so I reckon both ParksVic AND punters are going to let this one go in the end... the facts are stacked against them... point them towards a viable sacrifical goal and I reckon they’ll bite -

    What about that Alpine peak Mt Jim which towers above the Bogong High plains - now there’s a peak that grabs the attention.... once them city consultants see its elevation they gonna go wild surely...
     
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  48. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now..now.. Must not belittle Mt Jim...it was entertaining coming past the triple pole junction beside Mt Jim last Sunday after a Team Bears did a work out down at Weston's Hut.....it looked impressive as I scurried through on an evening epic ...to hit the Tawonga Jeep Track before dark.......life continues regardless of the FHAW .....the isolation and treeless Plains are a visual buzz when it's late in the day and you are a spent force..please no construction any where near there either...

    ...
     
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  49. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Masses meaning the bulk of walkers that we run into....those masses...like the average chap one meets out there in the backcountry.Yes the said "masses"like their Huts regardless of what is posted in this forum...which is not always representative of bushwalkers.
     
  50. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh please no nuisance snow yet...still much work to be done out and about!