News Falls Creek Hotham Alpine Crossing. The master plan. What a heap of horsepoo.

Ubiquitous Steve

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I want some of these drugs.
Yes that might help to get your synapses worker faster.....bananas can do wonders for brain function if it's failing...Bears say you should diwn a few banana smoothies if you are having trouble keeping up with the threads...
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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An interesting route.Bogong Saddle Helipad easily accessible by vehicles ...just clean up Big River Fire trail a bit...so a good tent city could be erected without the need for helicopters...a hut there ...though contentious with some would not be an eye sore .
We like that bit about the old tram way....Team Bears have not been down there....
I have walked a bit of the Bogong creek tramway but not all of it.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Someone who wants a bit of comfort is "privileged". Someone who will squat is entitled to be there. Do you see your problem yet?
Should we have flushing commodes every one kilometre in the Alpine N.P.? I think not. If someone if is a bit too regular or has a bladder like a sieve and has a fear of imaginary red back spiders biting them on their fundament then sorry but the great outdoors isn't their kind of place . Even if they are fully cashed up and PV sees such people as potentially cash cows it still isn't a good enough reason to put in water closets ever bleeding where ,
fancy crappers that The Sultan of Brunei would feel comfortable about sitting on.
Perhaps the same people would like to carried up the Diamantina spur on a palaquin?
 

Legs Akimbo

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Should we have flushing commodes every one kilometre in the Alpine N.P.? I think not. If someone if is a bit too regular or has a bladder like a sieve and has a fear of imaginary red back spiders biting them on their fundament then sorry but the great outdoors isn't their kind of place . Even if they are fully cashed up and PV sees such people as potentially cash cows it still isn't a good enough reason to put in water closets ever bleeding where ,
fancy crappers that The Sultan of Brunei would feel comfortable about sitting on.
Perhaps the same people would like to carried up the Diamantina spur on a palaquin?
You will have to take this up with Oubliette Steve. He's the crapper king.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Don't worry the sun will come up tomorrow....
And Team Bears have a plan to scare the glampers and their cohorts away......our giant fires should scare the b.jes.s out of them.Well it works on Xplora!
No landing helicopters in our helipads ...or you could get your asses burnt!
 
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Jellybeans

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Should we have flushing commodes every one kilometre in the Alpine N.P.? I think not. If someone if is a bit too regular or has a bladder like a sieve and has a fear of imaginary red back spiders biting them on their fundament then sorry but the great outdoors isn't their kind of place . Even if they are fully cashed up and PV sees such people as potentially cash cows it still isn't a good enough reason to put in water closets ever bleeding where ,
fancy crappers that The Sultan of Brunei would feel comfortable about sitting on.
Perhaps the same people would like to carried up the Diamantina spur on a palaquin?
When the Sultan of Brunei is mentioned in a discussion about an Victorian long distance walk, it may be getting out of hand just a little bit.
 

Chaeron

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To be fair the Great Ocean Walk is a pretty average hike overall and it's really just cashing in on the name of the well regarded Great Ocean Road. While it has a few great sections, there are a lot of dull bits between them. Over the dozen or so years since the route was built, the public have slowly worked this out. By contrast the route for the Falls to Hotham Crossing is mostly glorious walking So unlike the G.O.W. I doubt this walk will "fail" based on the quality on the experience of the walkers, even though the route is somewhat contrived, circuitous and indirect.

While I don't like the proposal for it's excessive over development and appalling waste of money, the idea of mainstreaming hiking in the area isn't necessarily bad. An average hiker can easily travel from Loch Car Park to Cope Hut or Pretty Valley in a day, so the idea of making people wander around for five days between the same start and end points is more than a little silly.

Personally, if I were asked to design a not too hard 5 day route in the area. I'd run fun shuttles on the Bogong Creek tramway to its terminus near Bogong Creek Saddle, then:
Day 1. Climb Bogong via Quartz Ridge as a day trip
Day 2. Bogong Creek Saddle - Grey Hills - Spion Kopje - Nelse - Johnsons Hut area
Day 3. Traverse the grassy thin snowgumy area to Fitzgeralds then Langford Aqueduct to Rover Chalet or Cope Hut
Day 4. To Pole 333, then an easier choice to Dibbins Hut or a harder one to Blairs Hut
Day 5. Dibbins to Hotham via Swindlers Spur (easier) or Blairs to Hotham via Diamantina Spur and the Razorback (harder)

That route isn't too challenging and covers twice the distance as the proposed walk in the same time. Plus IF they wanted to put in extra huts or shelters, the proposed campsites on that route are less visible, more sheltered and more easily accessed than some of the sillier proposed locations of the route dreamed up by spin doctors like High Knob.
Very much like - the voice of reason supported by decades of intimate knowledge of the terrain and the broader community’s interaction with the terrain in question - if only our consultants and state government had the capacity to engage this level of expertise and forum members were more able to accomodate wisdom over polemics and ad hominem arguments we would be living in the best of all possible National Parks..... but....
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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When the Sultan of Brunei is mentioned in a discussion about an Victorian long distance walk, it may be getting out of hand just a little bit.[/
You will have to take this up with Oubliette Steve. He's the crapper king.
"disambiguation."....exactly ! We clarify situations with our wisdom!
thanks Legs that's a splendid complement ....perhaps you don't understand the meaning of oubliette?
Middle French can be tricky!
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Oubliette is not a drop dunny.....perhaps you should try to check its meaning again.:whistle:

Legs u just got to try harder to get that brain up to speed....your posts are a source of great humour so far.....
 

Bogong

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Very much like - the voice of reason supported by decades of intimate knowledge of the terrain and the broader community’s interaction with the terrain in question - if only our consultants and state government had the capacity to engage this level of expertise and forum members were more able to accomodate wisdom over polemics and ad hominem arguments we would be living in the best of all possible National Parks..... but....
Thanks Chaeron. :cheers: I picked that route as an alternative to the proposed one because:
  • It has plenty of variety, so every day gives the walker a rather different experience.
  • It's mostly easy going but traverses a lot more ground, (so there are views in all directions).
  • Every campsite is relatively sheltered, has fairly reliable water nearby and despite feeling fairly wildernessy, all are either on a road or within a 15 minute walk of one.
  • No new walking tracks would be needed except for one on the easy stroll through open woodland between Johnsons Hut and Fitzys Hut, but a rough footpad has formed on that route anyway.
With all campsites on or near roads it would be relatively cheap to build and maintain any extra infrastructure (no helis needed). The only major expense would to be to rebuild the tram bridge near the end of the Bogong Creek aqueduct (but I reckon a local contractor with a dozer and a couple of big plastic or corrugated steel pipes could do it in a day or two). The rolling stock for the tram is sitting in a shed, all you'd need to do is bolt a few plastic seats on to one of the flat trucks.

So I reckon that route would be better for walkers, more varied, much cheaper and less intrusive than the proposed one.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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When the Sultan of Brunei is mentioned in a discussion about an Victorian long distance walk, it may be getting out of hand just a little bit.
I have sinned and left out the whole infinitive verb in my entry . It should read "to be carried up the Diamantina spur in a palaquin etc. ". I am a stickler for grammar!.
Bogong's suggested walking route is superb.
Even a hut placed at Bogong Creek Saddle would be no big deal for this rabid greenie.
If only the Big resorts that are driving this pile of horse poo ( FHAC Master pan ) could see how right he is and how wrong they are.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Has red robin ceased operation?
I think so Seth.....and I am not sure if further mining is allowable or whether it's not going to be allowed?

And I am not sure of the future of Kens House? Will Parks utilise it or pass the lease on to somebody else?
Maybe Kens friends in Mt Beauty know a bit more?..
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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At present (subject to certain months of the year)horses are allowed up from Blairs Hut past Weston's up to the plateau on Mt Jim ...then they can access Tawonga or Pretty Valley or Cope/Ryder's Huts.....what are the bright sparks doing in regard to their access rights...They cannot come up from Dibbins Divide over Basalt Temple and towards Mt Jim at the moment.Its prohibited!
If you upgrade the track in the boggy sections above Weston's. ..then you must guarantee the the track is not dangerous for their legs....(no not u legs)! It's going to either cost money or the horse riders are going to have restrictions placed on them!

Anybody know what management plans apply here or are going to be modified whatever?You cannot just throw logs across the track to keep walkers from walking through the mud....it's dangerous for horses and their riders....if you restrict horse access to Weston's.....and I cannot see that going diwn well with the locals in the valley then they can only get up there via Paling Spur and at present I don't think it's an easy access with fallen trees etc.
 

Xplora

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At present (subject to certain months of the year)horses are allowed up from Blairs Hut past Weston's up to the plateau on Mt Jim ...then they can access Tawonga or Pretty Valley or Cope/Ryder's Huts.....what are the bright sparks doing in regard to their access rights...They cannot come up from Dibbins Divide over Basalt Temple and towards Mt Jim at the moment.Its prohibited!
If you upgrade the track in the boggy sections above Weston's. ..then you must guarantee the the track is not dangerous for their legs....(no not u legs)! It's going to either cost money or the horse riders are going to have restrictions placed on them!

Anybody know what management plans apply here or are going to be modified whatever?You cannot just throw logs across the track to keep walkers from walking through the mud....it's dangerous for horses and their riders....if you restrict horse access to Weston's.....and I cannot see that going diwn well with the locals in the valley then they can only get up there via Paling Spur and at present I don't think it's an easy access with fallen trees etc.

To answer your question, the Baird's are on top of this and will ensure access for horses up Westons spur. I raised this issue at the Bright meeting as the draft plan suggested steps up Westons. The Baird's were there and took notice. The bog above Weston's hut has always been an issue and when someone put logs down for walkers the horse riders made a new track around it. This was OK with PV as they know logs are not good for horses. The Greater ANP management plan covers this area and all activities and they cannot take away horse access on Westons spur. An error was made in the plan and now it has been accepted by parliament this error means you can ride horses all year round up Westons to pole 333. There were 2 other tracks also listed as all year access for horses with one taking you to Marm point and the other almost to Ropers hut. I made these errors known to PV and efforts are underway to have this access withdrawn from the plan.

With regard to Bogong's route, it appears to go through two prohibited areas. The first (if I have understood it correctly) is the section from Fitz's hut to Johnstons which goes through the Hollands Knob reference area and the other is the tramway. I think the first would be the main issue but AGL would have to give sanction to the second.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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To answer your question, the Baird's are on top of this and will ensure access for horses up Westons spur. I raised this issue at the Bright meeting as the draft plan suggested steps up Westons. The Baird's were there and took notice. The bog above Weston's hut has always been an issue and when someone put logs down for walkers the horse riders made a new track around it. This was OK with PV as they know logs are not good for horses. The Greater ANP management plan covers this area and all activities and they cannot take away horse access on Westons spur. An error was made in the plan and now it has been accepted by parliament this error means you can ride horses all year round up Westons to pole 333. There were 2 other tracks also listed as all year access for horses with one taking you to Marm point and the other almost to Ropers hut. I made these errors known to PV and efforts are underway to have this access withdrawn from the plan.

With regard to Bogong's route, it appears to go through two prohibited areas. The first (if I have understood it correctly) is the section from Fitz's hut to Johnstons which goes through the Hollands Knob reference area and the other is the tramway. I think the first would be the main issue but AGL would have to give sanction to the second.
Thanks for info.cheers
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Oh good this thread is still going
Was at Blairs yesterday....Hut needs attention....the window that I temporarily fixed three years ago is still there!
With all this money available for draft management plans
do you think that management could just do some work up here!Though we are quite flattered to see out work rough as it is.....it may be time to focus attention on some more deserving works!.Much track clearing has been done now on most of the West Kiewa Logging Rd right past Blairs..from a point about 8km in from the Big Hill. Management Gate.
Access greatly improved in here.....surface dry at moment.
No building activity in there yet...but road conditions have greatly improved ....
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Ten years or so after last high intensity fires old trees going down like skittles.This new intensity frequent fire regime is a cause of concern....poor little critters need some "public housing"...fake nesting hollows etc.

The Snowgum ecosystem has taken a battering too......Team Bears just cannot keep up with the amount of tree fall.....it has to be like occurring about ten times more than normal.....extrapolate what you see on walking tracks to larger areas....and the litter accumulation is of concern.....
The greater risk Fire seasons and accumulating litter will perpetuate this demise of our Snowgum clad higher ridges imo.
That leaves you with fire pro work and control burning as the only tools in the kit to control these burns or mitigate their intensity.

Controlling ignition and detection could be further resourced.

The bush is a changing that's for sure....those poor Eucalypts are getting a bit stressed.
It would be interesting to see figures of lightening strikes as a ignition source.Have there been more lightening strikes....or is it dependant on the soil moisture index whether a strike leads to a escape from the immediate area.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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There is discussion about the FHAC master Draft on the Bushwalking website
http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21730&start=480
If you oppose this plan then write a simple clear letter to your M.P. in your area. There is a state election coming up this year in VIC. and if we who oppose the plan can make the M.P.s see that it is environmentally and economically a disaster then something good might happen.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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There is discussion about the FHAC master Draft on the Bushwalking website
http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21730&start=480
If you oppose this plan then write a simple clear letter to your M.P. in your area. There is a state election coming up this year in VIC. and if we who oppose the plan can make the M.P.s see that it is environmentally and economically a disaster then something good might happen.
Interesting read on that site....
The ideas being trotted out to support FHAW are childish....

Those sleeping platforms sound horrific.....
At least with Team Bears picnic tables....you can both eat at them and sleep on top of them....and they are pretty low key visually..High Knob is going to look grotesque with this development........those structures at Dibbins just don't look right!.....but twelve of them ??
 

Bogong

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I'm generally not a fan of that forum, there seem to be a lot of people who have done half a dozen hikes and think that makes them an expert. Either that or inner city "Eco-Warriors" who've lived in the city their whole life but feel entitled to preach to country people on how they should live and how rural areas should be run.

By contrast, people on the back country forum here seem to be more experienced, humble, tolerant and well informed. :cheers:
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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I'm generally not a fan of that forum, there seem to be a lot of people who have done half a dozen hikes and think that makes them an expert. Either that or inner city "Eco-Warriors" who've lived in the city their whole life but feel entitled to preach to country people on how they should live and how rural areas should be run.

By contrast, people on the back country forum here seem to be more experienced, humble, tolerant and well informed. :cheers:
That may well be so but I contribute to both websites.
 

Richard

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So...

I get this contribution to this thread by email. The source wishes to remain anonymous and does not wish to be a 'one post' contributor.

--------------------

PV has advised that non-confidential submissions are now available online
http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/p...s/falls-to-hotham-alpine-crossing-master-plan

Click on the link under the heading Phase 3: Draft Master Plan. Some non-confidential submissions are missing.

There's a discussion at;
http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21730&start=540

----------------------
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Wos happening.....dirty tricks or what happening here!
We must read....

Looks like we are been sold down the river by PV.
The responsible land managers have abounded you!
They have abrogated their charter to manage national parks in a professional way....

Scant regard being shown for the environment......

The circus rolls on!!

Your Champion Land Managers have cast you adrift in search of quick profits but it's obvious the cash strapped organisation will flounder further if this White Elephant Project gets any legs!!

And pretty please can some dude replace/fix the temporarily fixed glass window in Blairs...it's comming up to the three year mark now .......perhaps pass a collection jar around at the next community meeting in Bright or Melb.....we estimate cost is about $100 perhaps somebody could go visit the tip and see what can be procured ........
 

Xplora

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So...

I get this contribution to this thread by email. The source wishes to remain anonymous and does not wish to be a 'one post' contributor.

--------------------

PV has advised that non-confidential submissions are now available online
http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/p...s/falls-to-hotham-alpine-crossing-master-plan

Click on the link under the heading Phase 3: Draft Master Plan. Some non-confidential submissions are missing.

There's a discussion at;
http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21730&start=540

----------------------
463 pages worth read this morning and counting a few duplicate submissions or more submissions from the same source there were only 9 in support of this proposal and some of them had reservations. The submission summary presented a completely different picture. This project is being driven by Tourism NE and the resorts. The government has directed PV as the land manager to undertake the management plan but there may be some support in various areas of PV. The economic viability of this project is based on numbers from TNE which are more a reflection of visitation of the entire North East and the resorts in winter. $2M has just been allocated in the budget for more feasibility studies and they still have to change the planning laws to make the hard roof accom. possible. Scouts have said No to Rover lodge so another building is needed. When you have to dodgy up figures to support a concept then it is pretty clear there is a hidden agenda.

And pretty please can some dude replace/fix the temporarily fixed glass window in Blairs...it's comming up to the three year mark now
Is your phone broken? Do you want the phone number?
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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463 pages worth read this morning and counting a few duplicate submissions or more submissions from the same source there were only 9 in support of this proposal and some of them had reservations. The submission summary presented a completely different picture. This project is being driven by Tourism NE and the resorts. The government has directed PV as the land manager to undertake the management plan but there may be some support in various areas of PV. The economic viability of this project is based on numbers from TNE which are more a reflection of visitation of the entire North East and the resorts in winter. $2M has just been allocated in the budget for more feasibility studies and they still have to change the planning laws to make the hard roof accom. possible. Scouts have said No to Rover lodge so another building is needed. When you have to dodgy up figures to support a concept then it is pretty clear there is a hidden agenda.


Is your phone broken? Do you want the phone number?
Good to see the scouts have their whits about them!
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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He dropped it on the floor and never got a round to cleaning it up and reorganising it so he could submit it in time.
Sounds more like a dishonest coverup to us!
So have we got Parks Vic fudging the figures and losing documents?
Perhaps developers are buying their way through this.....corruption??

Perhaps another CEO may get a walking ticket shortly !
Dismay and dishonesty in Parks??Folk being bought off to produce the desired results?

Could this be the case?Is this possible?

Any submission that Team Bears made would be lost for sure.....to many embarrassing
areas to deal with......and your submissions gone awol!!
 

luke1234

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Given the plan actually recognises the large number of people walking on BHP and to Feathertop on day trips and that most of the walk can all be done from a base using both resorts, why is it the resorts have done very little to promote this sort of activity during summer? Cedarwood appears to have done something but there has not been a lot of advertising or support from the RMB or Tourism NE. The plan is ambiguous and conflicting. So many diversities, interacting tracks, make your own walk, don't walk the one direction through walk but stay in the lodges and do day walks, skip sections or take an easier route. It becomes less about the iconic through walk and more about capturing a market which the resorts have failed to capitalise on so far. The word remote is mentioned several times but I fail to see any part which gives that feeling. People everywhere, mobile phone service, roads, resorts in view. I have come to understand their branding of iconic is not about the views, which you can still get if you did the walk on its current alignment. The new alignment is needed to take it away from the AAWT otherwise it would just be a section of that walk. The plan also uses examples of similar walks and believes this walk can do the same but it failed to show how the other iconic walks in Vic are doing. The GOR is running at a loss even when walkers are picked up and taken to hard roof accommodation each night. Surely that would show a market trend. The initial costing was $19M and now $34M. The draft plan had a max of around 60000 walker nights but the walk had less nights (3) so that equated to 20000 walkers/year and a figure of 7.3:1 (from memory) as the economic benefit. Now there are less than half the number of walkers (7777) and almost double the costs so economic benefit has to be dropping even by the dodgy accounting standards of the marketing company McLoeds. The plan admits they have no way of accurately determining how many people are actually doing this walk now and have relied upon camping platform hire for one estimation. These figures were in the draft version and I strongly suspect they are a combination of the Dibbins and Cope platforms figures. If that can be substantiated then their figures would have to be halved again. That would leave the economic benefit around 1:1 if in fact they could muster any sort of support from their target market. In addition to this, in order to build in the areas designated there are considerable problems with the BMO and it states an amendment to the planning scheme would need to be passed. So the law does not currently allow this sort of thing and the way around it is to change the law. What flow on affect will this have elsewhere or will it just be so people can build what they want in this area? Waste removal is also an issue but then when they put in hot showers and a kitchen you will have a considerable amount of grey water. Where is that going to go? It is noted in the plan those doing the through walk will be given accommodation/camping platform priority which means the hard roof lodges will be open for bookings from anyone unless they are booked out with through walkers. In the end, when the walk itself is a white elephant, the private operator will be able to book the lodges for winter and offer back country accommodation, thereby extending the resort offering by stealth to the exclusion of those who have been traditionally using it. I understand the concern resorts have with the future of snow and there is a need for them to do more in summer but there has been very little support for these activities in the past and most are still winter focused.

I completely agree with you here Xplora.

Why the heck aren't the resorts promoting summer day walks more? There's all this infrastructure and luxury accommodation up in the area already, almost completely unused during summer, and so much of the scenery can be accessed by day walks from the resorts. Heck they could even have subsided helicopter rides between the resorts so people can experience both sides in a single trip/weekend and it would probably still be cheaper than the current plan. The only explanation I can think of right now as to why they haven't tried this properly are that the resorts know that plans like that are doomed to fail, there just aren't the numbers to even do it that way, there must be an ulterior motive here...
 

Bogong

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I didn't make a submission because I feel it's a rather futile gesture. I would spend around 10 hours of my time to research and write it but, to the "powers that be" it would be seen as just the viewpoint of some ratbag generic random. Yes I know the area very well, yes I've run quite a few package hiking tours in the area and a decade ago I was president of a very large hiking club that ran trips many times a year in the area. BUT I'm a nobody. I don't have any contacts, I don't represent a powerful city lobby group like the VNPA or a local group like a tourist association... I'm not even a member of any such group.

Without contacts or involvement with lobby groups, I feel totally voiceless and impotent and I'm fairly certain that anything I wrote would be ignored despite the fact that I probably know the area better than the groups and people with "influence". I know the area in all seasons, I know the ecology, I know the history, I know how first time visitors see the area and interact with it. I even know what those first timers want to do and what they want to spend their money on. But I suspect anything I do or write will be ignored, while people with the "right contacts" and submissions from influential lobby groups will be listened to.

So despite suspecting I could design a better walk that's more rewarding to hikers and costing less than 20% of the price of this proposal, which would contribute as least as much to the local economy, I feels there's no point investing a few days in researching and writing a submission only to be disappointed when it is ignored.

*Self indulgent semi-rant ends.*
 

skifree

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But surely any submission to the requested point is better than submissions to a random ski or bushwalk forum?

I was not happy with the curent outcome (and the moving traget of a process) for the management plan for horses in the KNP but at least I made a submission.

I did not make a submisison on the FtoH wander as think the current stage is kite flying rather than a serious proposal, but I might change my mind at some point. I'll have to look at the content of Richards post #380 a little more. I can say I have read and considered the Master Plan which many voices of protest clearly have not as demostrated by their asertions as to what is or is not propsoed and questions they have posed which are answered in the MP.
 
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Xplora

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I completely agree with you here Xplora.

Why the heck aren't the resorts promoting summer day walks more? There's all this infrastructure and luxury accommodation up in the area already, almost completely unused during summer, and so much of the scenery can be accessed by day walks from the resorts. Heck they could even have subsided helicopter rides between the resorts so people can experience both sides in a single trip/weekend and it would probably still be cheaper than the current plan. The only explanation I can think of right now as to why they haven't tried this properly are that the resorts know that plans like that are doomed to fail, there just aren't the numbers to even do it that way, there must be an ulterior motive here...
There are some at Falls who have tried to work it out for summer day walks and all credit to them. Your helicopter idea is great and I can tell you PV put this to the bloke who does the dunny contract in the park and he now offers trips for about $170/p (4 people) back and forth. As I mentioned early in this thread, it doesn't matter if the planned walk fails once the accommodation is in place because the private operator can rent it out summer or winter to non walkers or day trippers and BC skiers.
Without contacts or involvement with lobby groups, I feel totally voiceless and impotent and I'm fairly certain that anything I wrote would be ignored despite the fact that I probably know the area better than the groups and people with "influence"
I understand why you would feel this way and certainly many of the well established groups such as Bushwalking Vic and VNPA have a greater lobby voice but there were a lot of very simple submissions that spoke strongly compared to only 9 who thought it was a good thing. I can tell you from personal experience that one logical voice can be strong. I put a submission to the Federal government requesting a mobile phone tower in our area under the black spot program and we were successful in the first round of money. Still waiting for it to be built but we are patient. I have done this for other matters of concern but I don't really want to list them save to say it can be worthwhile. I must say not all are as successful but many have been. Adding a voice to others of the same view makes all the voices turn into a shout and they will have to start paying attention when enough people are shouting. I did note that one of the people who was in favour made it clear they were a member of Bushwalking Vic and that Peter Campbell did not speak for him. TNE and the resorts are also very strong when it comes to lobbying and we know that at times some back room deals have been done and discovered which is partly why the RMB's have had a shake up. It could be PV is the meat in the sandwich here. I also suspect, as before, those in charge of this plan are reading these comments again.
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Team Bears don't believe they have an ulterior motive at all.
We think they are just stupid .....this walk will fail economically......and somebody can then calculate all the wasted monies that have been squandered.
The ideas are not going to fly....this project will come crashing down around them...

Team Bears are more concerned that the West Kiewa is going to get polluted and degraded as a result of this lunacy......
We see they can not operate within the Horseyards....they must operate their camp some 500meters from the existing yards.There will inevitably be disturbance of a large area to put a track in from the Horseyard Track.
There are numerous trees that will need to be felled to safely set up a camp where tree fall is not an issue.If tree heights are up to 100ft ...the area necessary to safely operate will leave a large foot print close to the Diamintina River!!
This will be one of the environmental costs associated with this development in here.
 

skifree

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...this walk will fail economically.

You may very well be correct. But there are quite a few examples around the world where this type of project has worked. And it is these examples that has got the back room bean counters in Melbourne (random guessing there:rolleyes:) excited enough to thorw money at feaso reports.
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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A couple of years from now there could be a fire sale on....as Parks Vic try to sell some of the junk.......anything good we will take for our projects!!:p
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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A couple of years from now there could be a fire sale on....as Parks Vic try to sell some of the junk.......anything good we will take for our projects!!:p
We wait in anticipation of the first massive acccident as glamper campers inc try to pass another glamper camper unit on Dungeys Track!
A roll over in there may change the enthusiasm of the overseas market!
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Well you could always dynamite the Bridge over the Diamintina that may slow them down a bit!

Where is Ken when you need him most !
Otherwise pray for a one in 400 year flood.....and nature will do it for you!
Another landslp on the West Kiewa Logging Rd may also do the trick....

Now where was that magazine that Ken had?
 

weerab

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I didn't make a submission because I feel it's a rather futile gesture. I would spend around 10 hours of my time to research and write it but, to the "powers that be" it would be seen as just the viewpoint of some ratbag generic random. Yes I know the area very well, yes I've run quite a few package hiking tours in the area and a decade ago I was president of a very large hiking club that ran trips many times a year in the area. BUT I'm a nobody. I don't have any contacts, I don't represent a powerful city lobby group like the VNPA or a local group like a tourist association... I'm not even a member of any such group.

Without contacts or involvement with lobby groups, I feel totally voiceless and impotent and I'm fairly certain that anything I wrote would be ignored despite the fact that I probably know the area better than the groups and people with "influence". I know the area in all seasons, I know the ecology, I know the history, I know how first time visitors see the area and interact with it. I even know what those first timers want to do and what they want to spend their money on. But I suspect anything I do or write will be ignored, while people with the "right contacts" and submissions from influential lobby groups will be listened to.

So despite suspecting I could design a better walk that's more rewarding to hikers and costing less than 20% of the price of this proposal, which would contribute as least as much to the local economy, I feels there's no point investing a few days in researching and writing a submission only to be disappointed when it is ignored.

*Self indulgent semi-rant ends.*

I totally agree with you! We are just a small voice in the "wilderness", we will just have to wait and see what happens. I have a gut feeling that nothing will happen, I just can't see it as financially viable.
 
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