1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW REGISTRATIONS

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Falls Creek/ Hotham to be bought by Vail?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Apresski, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Whatever really

    Whatever really Addicted

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    219
    I love Buller but also love hitting the road and every year ski 6-7 resorts around the world
     
  2. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,812
    Likes Received:
    2,072
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    So the kids couldn't travel with their schools to another resort for just one weekend? Sorry, there is no excuse for that level of preciousness.

    Anyway, whether the motive for protesting about holding the inter school races at another resort was excessive loyalty to Mt Buller or overly protective and precious mummies who want to supervise their children at all times, it does underline my point that there are more people in Australia who will never change the resort where they ski than in other places like North America.
     
  3. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    7,997
    Likes Received:
    8,187
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Sydgong has up to a 2 hour start on Newy. A Friday night dash is easily doable from Sydgong, less so from Newy.

    I can only speak for myself, as coming from Newy, but I tend to do 5 day midweeks to Perisher rather than weekend dashes, for 3 reasons. The Friday and Sunday night 7 hour dashes are too long for me, and the weekends are crowded as buggery at Perisher when the snow is good. Then the accommodation is dear as poison when the snow is good.

    So I'm happy to do a road trip. Midweek at Perisher, then travel to Falls or Hotham over the weekend when the resorts are busy, then do another midweek.

    So the Epic pass works well for me, but then I'm always a bit of an outlier.
     
    Jacko4650 and Chaeron like this.
  4. Pink

    Pink One of Us

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    566
    That’s shocking. I’d suspect that was a deliberate campaign to ensure that Melbourne’s private school elite continued to have a home ground advantage against the North East Victorian kids.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  5. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    30,547
    Likes Received:
    13,851
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    That's a slightly different version to what I had heard but probably both are partly correct. I thought it was more about business pressure from Buller.
    In any case, it was Snow Sports Australia that came storming in claiming that only they had the right to decide where Vic interschools could be held. SSA then went on to punish Falls Creek by taking National interschools off then and giving them to Buller too.
     
    Bogong likes this.
  6. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,555
    Likes Received:
    10,536
    And I recall the year we all travelled to a mainly bare Buller for National interschools, while many other resorts still had good cover. 2013 I think. Forced to prepurchase lift passes for events that were walk to only. Forever tainted my opinion of Buller.

    Must be time for this photo again...

    National interschools moguls

     
  7. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    30,547
    Likes Received:
    13,851
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    I recall stories of gs with only a handful (or less) of gates too
     
  8. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,555
    Likes Received:
    10,536
    You certainly didn’t want to miss one. They were building the moguls with wheelbarrows of snow.

    Mind you there was a shocker state comp at Thredbo one year, which saw many kids injured, @nfip would remember it well. Rocks and grass on the SX/BX course, I dq’d half the athletes and they ran out of blood buckets.
     
  9. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,667
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    I feel your pain.
     
    Marty_McSly likes this.
  10. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    7,997
    Likes Received:
    8,187
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Wow. Just wow.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  11. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    1,994
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    You would have to question if that was even safe to hold the event. The original thread about the Falls/Buller IS debacle went for 15 pages and everyone in NSW looked at it and went WTF are the Mexicans on about, how hard is it to rotate the event.
     
  12. Hully

    Hully One of Us

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    No, it would be Buller skiers willingly paying less for a season pass that would give them access to ski elsewhere in Australia. ROFLROFLROFL
     
    #562 Hully, Mar 5, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    currawong likes this.
  13. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    1,068
    Location:
    vic
    So SSA are the real culprits then in regard to the Interschools debarkle?

    It's easy to understand Buller race officials, ski school, lift co. And businesses generally flying the parochial flag. But for SSA to so blatantly pick sides - sounds Buller people have taken over the org??

    Have to say through my talks with other skiers here in Melbourne - the private school /Buller lodge/ski/race association seems fairly strong - still - but it would be remiss not to point out fairly loyal Hotham and Falls bases too.

    As a govt school kid - I do find the 'thing' very enlightening. There's a few people I suspect are somewhat surprised that ex govt school kids CAN ski?? ( ;-)
     
  14. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,277
    Likes Received:
    2,304
    That is funny, but when we get down to it, lift pass costs are still minor compared to accommodation. Which, far more that lift passes, is the really crazy expensive part of skiing in Australia.

    I can go skiing in Thredbo and sleep in a bed. If I want to ski anywhere else, I'd be sleeping either in a tent, a >1 hour drive away (and I did do this camping at Island Bend for one season a couple of years ago to ski at Perisher) or I'd be overseas.
     
  15. Hully

    Hully One of Us

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    1,651
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Yeah, totally agree. This is why potential season pass purchase movement been resorts in Victoria is small. Most season pass skiers would have a commitment beyond lift pass as to where they ski.... accommodation, club membership, place of residence etc.
    Accommodation does not come into the equation for our domestic skiing and living 30km from the resort, doing the number of days skiing to pass 'value point' is a given.
     
    sbm_ likes this.
  16. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,555
    Likes Received:
    10,536
    Checked out Jindy Central kids lately? ;)
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  17. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    30,547
    Likes Received:
    13,851
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Mt beauty secondary college kids not too shabby either, especially xc
     
    Chaeron and chicski like this.
  18. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    From a personal point of view I completely agree with you.

    However ...... don’t underestimate the weird effect on logic that getting something for “free” has on people. I have spoken to loads of people who have been to Japan this season, purely on the basis of the Epic Australia Japanese hookup. They have probably dropped $5-10k on airfares, transfers and accomodation for the family because they saved $500 on tickets.

    Likewise, so many Aussies have gone to Epic USA resorts this season. They could have gone to a Canadian interior resort, bought lift tickets over the counter, and still been thousands ahead, considering the favourable $CAD vs $US exchange rate, and the cheaper accomodation etc in Canada. Yet, they still flock to Vail resorts because of the “free” tickets.

    That is the Vail business model, and you have to give them credit, the psychology works on most people.

    So I think there will be plenty of people crossing the state border and trying other resorts once the 3 Ozzie resorts are linked up. Especially the first couple of years because it will be a novelty and something new
     
  19. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    29,418
    Likes Received:
    24,954
    Location:
    woonona
    Mind you I had mates that went to tahoe
    paid 800 bucks airfares
    paid $120 bucks aud a night at a motel. 150 metres from the Heavenly gondie
    car hire was cheap.

    Thats value
     
    Tanuki and Ozgirl like this.
  20. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    6,402
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    Just back from Whistler, its been 20 years and a lot of changes makes this a pretty amazing hill now. With direct flights now and easy access, I will definitely be going back with the Epic.
     
    Tanuki, Belly and Jacko4650 like this.
  21. Sadie

    Sadie Chk Chk Boom Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2001
    Messages:
    10,835
    Likes Received:
    2,747
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Mt Olympus is worse
     
    Tanuki likes this.
  22. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    29,418
    Likes Received:
    24,954
    Location:
    woonona
    Yeah and no.... since the kaikoura earthquake. Lyford has had some serious issues I've heard
     
  23. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,256
    Likes Received:
    13,824
    Location:
    Melbourne
    How much are lift tickets for say 10 days at Silverstar and 10 at Sun Peaks?
     
  24. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    533
    Location:
    Mt Buller
    I noticed Albert Park College were on the podium a bunch last season
     
    Tanuki, Chaeron and currawong like this.
  25. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Interschools must make a motsa for Buller each year. No way are they giving that up.
    And even if they were made to there would be so much pressure from cashed up connected Mums and Dads.

    It's a real shame it doesn't rotate to different mountains but I do have to concede they've been doing it for so long, it does run like a pretty well oiled machine.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  26. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    30,547
    Likes Received:
    13,851
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    when there is snow
     
    cookieman likes this.
  27. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    19,914
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    No where else could handle it. Simply not enough beds.
     
    Dave Clark, Jellybeans and Chaeron like this.
  28. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    1,994
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Military Epic Pass for 19/20 Northern Hemisphere and 2020 Southern Hemisphere on sale today.

     
  29. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,074
    Likes Received:
    5,911
    Around $A40-60 per day, per adult if booked in advance as part of a package. Kids costs can be neglible, if booked as a package, as there are many kids ski free type offers.

    My point was that free lift tickets, while attractive, do not necessarily make the overall cost of the trip cheaper, if you end up paying more in accom, lessons, gear rental, food, transfers etc. You have to look at total costs, which will vary depending on your circumstances, number of people, length of trip etc.

    The other point I was making was that quite a few people / families make trips purely because they have the epic pass, ie they make trips they otherwise would not have made. These are the customers Vail are really trying to attract
     
    Normo and Bogong like this.
  30. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    1,076
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Even when there isn't snow LOL
     
  31. dan72

    dan72 Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    60
    I drove up Lyford last year for the first time, that section in the photo Donzah posted is pretty narrow, with a good ole drop off:emoji_see_no_evil:
     
  32. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    7,782
    Likes Received:
    5,971
    Location:
    Sydney/Jindy
    We weren't far off that last year! (Airfare was a hundred more)
     
  33. Hot_ham on Rye

    Hot_ham on Rye Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    46
    Dont know if this article has been linked but its a fascinating insight into what Hotham/Falls could become.Scary.Admittedly the dynamic is different given their multiple resort ownership in the US fast heading rowards a duopoly of the large resorts or close.Its worked wonders here with Coles and WW for consumers....
    https://www.powder.com/stories/features/epic-world/
     
    Chaeron and Bogong like this.
  34. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,667
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    A very telling read - disproportionate market power - a fundamental source of economic exploitation and social and environmental regression.

    I suspect snow/ mountain pricing - already a premium of 100% on regular prices is likely to move to 150% on accomodation, food etcetera.

    In VIC resort entry (read parking) is separate from lift company ownership bar Buller - so this might become interesting...
     
  35. Hot_ham on Rye

    Hot_ham on Rye Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    46
    It will be interesting and in the 7 years I worked at Hotham and the 40 years I've skied there,I've seen lots of owners and they all left their mark in one way or another and their motivations were in a some of the cases the same-probable tax write off and using it as a vehicle to gain other business advantages etc.Think Packer,Nursing Australia and so on.Few of them did much for skiers IMHO though and not too much for employees Merlin maybe did a bit more.The motivations of Vail resorts is certainly empire building and the board being at the end of the shareholders pointed stick only means one thing for punters-upward price movement and this will be assured as they gobble up our few resorts .That said, I wish I was still on a free lift pass and accommodation as its still our home hill !
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  36. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    41,326
    Likes Received:
    19,914
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    When did Buller gate entry become a ski company thing?
     
  37. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    7,997
    Likes Received:
    8,187
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    WRT to Tahoe, was that per room or per head? How many sharing if per head?

    May be less attractive to a solo traveller like me if, say, 4 sharing.
     
  38. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    451
    Theres cheaper options around tahoe marty $50-60usd per night which arent too bad and walkable to heavenly gondola.
     
    Ozgirl likes this.
  39. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans Walking on a cloud Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8,434
    Likes Received:
    10,084
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    It didn't.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  40. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    7,997
    Likes Received:
    8,187
    Location:
    Hunter Valley Whine Country, NSW
    Yeah. Found a couple around $75 in the next couple of weeks.

    With some forward planning I could sort something for next February. But that's for another thread...
     
    cornice11 likes this.
  41. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2018
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    451
    Americas best value inn was decent enough for the price.
     
  42. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,952
    Likes Received:
    8,593
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    I don't think the lift company gets anything from accommodation (other than accomm owned by the lift company) - doesn't the bed tax the accomm owners pay go to the RMB?
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  43. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    4,041
    State Schools represent!
     
    chicski likes this.
  44. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Messages:
    7,673
    Likes Received:
    13,531
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    @snowtyres, can I please get a snow chains recommendation from you for these tyres:-



    I'm currently running a set of Aldi snow chains on the Jazz, but having been up to Falls and Hotham via the western routes, something a little better is needed.
     
  45. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,667
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Correct, my bad. I confused myself - Buller has recently changed the way it charges for oversnow and resort entry.
     
  46. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,952
    Likes Received:
    8,593
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Size 60 Konig.
     
    DidSurfNowSki likes this.
  47. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,952
    Likes Received:
    8,593
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    The Konig/Thule CB-12 is a standard 12mm chain (meaning you need good clearance in the wheel arch) and not pay too much.
    The Konig/Thule CL-10 (10mm chain) is a self-tensioner, so costs a bit more.
    Both suitable for Hotham (and Falls).
     
  48. Dave Clark

    Dave Clark One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    533
    Location:
    Mt Buller
    We (lift co) run the website sales platform (that little widget you see on the home page) which hosts all the products inc. RMB's parking, but the revenue still goes to them and the parking products are all managed by RMB.
     
    currawong, Chaeron and nezumi like this.
  49. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,667
    Likes Received:
    4,964
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    That’s one thing about Buller - the integrated sales platform is really user-friendly from the user’s perspective compared to elsewhere!
     
    Tanuki and Bogong like this.
  50. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    2,595
    Different subject matter perhaps, but at a recent Tourism seminar on new technologies, we were told that one of the advantages of Crypyocurrency transactions was the transparency to users. Users swipe phone over POS device (similar to an EFTPOS machine) or use internet portal to pay for things and are then receipted by all parties involved in the transaction. This might include a booking office (percentage or fixed fee) , State Government (user pays fees), Federal Government (GST), online travel agency, Bank (transaction or currency exchange fees) final provider etc etc. Just one of the many reasons that Banks and Governments are kicking an screaming about cryptocurrencies! Oh, and end users get paid immediately, not two days later which is today's bank system.
     
    Dave Clark likes this.