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Falls Creek/ Hotham to be bought by Vail?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Apresski, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Bato

    Bato One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It wasnt full ownership previously, Packer kicked in some cash to get them out of some trouble.
     
  2. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Exactly. Why would the ACCC block it?
    There's no danger of a dominant player stifling competition. Thredbo will keep the NSW market competitive and Buller will do the same for Victoria.

    For the beginner and low intermediate market, you can also throw in the small resorts like Charlotte Pass, Baw Baw, Ben Lomond and Selwyn who already provide stiff competition for the five big resorts with lower prices and a more human scale and there is absolutely no danger of Vail having excessive influence on the Australian ski industry.

    Except that has to be it, Vail shouldn't be allowed to ever buy anything more to do with the mainland ski industry. (Although perhaps they might be allowed to buy Ben Lomond in Tassie if there is no one else willing to invest the much needed capital in that resort?)
     
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  3. PiedPiper

    PiedPiper One of Us

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    OMG now i can start dreaming of potential Lift upgrades @ Hotham and Falls!
    (yes i know falls just got a new lift, thinking more expansion and replacement)
    ( yes i know it's still a dream, but still highly more likely of terrain expansion @ hotham now than 48 hours ago!)
     
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  4. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ok, if we are dreaming, then let’s add to that list:

    Speed up Gully chair and try and reduce bottlenecks for getting up the mountain in the morning

    Develop the bowl so it is a focal point rather than the mish mash that it currently is

    Optimise parking for the peak periods on weekends
     
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  5. Bato

    Bato One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Vail had 200mil left of their debt facility before this purchase and a debt pile of 1.5bil, not too bad with a market cap of 8.3b, they have room to take on more debt and invest, however, things can turn fast in the ski industry, their share price has dropped from over $300 to $207 since October and they have 4% shorted. Ski resort operators have a history of spending their selfs into oblivion.
     
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  6. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Like all the lift upgrades that have occured at Perisher ? LOL
     
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  7. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Expect a proper village and condos galore and lift expansion
     
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  8. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Clearly stated Perisher wouldn't get much for first 5 or so years....
     
  9. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    vail ownership won't effect resort management. sure they can buy up existing sites and redevelop.

    did you really think lift expansion would go faster than demand?
     
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  10. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    5 10...... 20
     
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  11. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    All them damn Coloradans and Utahans comin' down here to ski our pow.:cry::D:D
     
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  12. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    they'll find a way to say the it absolutely, definitely, categorically does not lessen competition in the market.
     
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  13. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perisher/Falls/Hotham is better :p
     
  14. Bato

    Bato One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its a shame that Hotham has some steeps otherwise they could use the catchy slogan of "Ski the flat three"
     
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  15. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    They'll also upsell on hospitality etc. with an eye on the expanding Chinese market with the Winter Olympics coming.
     
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  16. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Going on current trends .. Pull out a T put in a chair same same more more
     
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  17. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Actually the last time Falls Creek pulled out surface lifts, they didn't replace them with anything. :(

    While the Saddle T-bar was no big loss, I still miss skiing the slopes that were served by Big Dipper, Headwaters and Village. :blb:
     
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  18. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    No expansion, just line marking the car park to fit more cars in ...
     
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  19. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    car parking is not a function of lift co in Vic

    but agree with the general principle
     
  20. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    My understanding is that the ACCC placed some restrictions when Packer invested in Falls/Hotham to bail them out when he owned Perisher....separation of financial management processes.
     
  21. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    agree that headwaters is a loss, especially for advancing beginners.
    village is sorely missed on windy days but otherwise the skiing on those slopes is better for not having a lift down the middle
    the big dipper slopes are still skiable with a bit of a traverse and/or a skate/walk.

    you will know the history better than me. are you saying headwaters was still running after panorama was replaced?
     
  22. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More than 50%.

    Competition issues?

    Anyway I still say do it. I think Australian skiing will be better with a deep pockets owner committed to the sport/lifestyle.
     
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  23. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    While I didn't ski it much - Headwaters was a reliable ski area - it was high (for Falls!) and south facing.

    Let's face it though - a new lift is technically possible - perhaps some clever people could make a business case??

    That's a well known problem with Falls - dead/ flat spots requiring a lot of skating (wasting lift time!)

    Falls proudly boast about their 450 ha but probably 100 ha of that is more touring/xc terrain - barely skiable for many alpine folks - even advanced ones.

    So about a new headwater (even a long carpet?)
     
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  24. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us

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    Hoo bloody ray. Living like I do in the middle of all 3 I can make a daily choice on where to go for a slide. Already got my money down on both Epic and Hero ,will just write off the Hero $50.This has just saved me a bundle of coin .................I guess a new pair of ski's have just come into calculations.
     

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  25. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Howdy, can I guess 'middle' places you around Wodonga - ish?
    (Mr Nosey?)

    Middle of the 3 - how good is that!
    Sure Beats SE Mel subs!!
     
  26. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    So, with a rough calc, payback is in "four days" means day passes are around $200 clams?

    Ouch.

    If so, a weekend for most couples will now equal or exceed a week's rent/mortgage?
    With extras more than doubling that.

    I'm thinking the era of the day pass (and so to the occasional skier) is all but over!
     
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  27. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    The day pass era finished long ago!

    Both Perisher and Thredbo are around the $150 for day ticket. And why not, offering good value season pass means most people pay up front so the resorts get there money and offset the risk of poor seasons.

    On the other hand users get great value. A season pass is now equal to five days skiing. So even if your only down for a week most people still get the pass.

    I know our family has gone from just getting a weeks ticket to now doing 20 plus days in winter, plus another 10 in summer.
     
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  28. Pink

    Pink One of Us

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    My eyes popped out when I read that. I hope that’s not what they mean. Hopefully they mean 4 days if you’re buying day passes at Vail. US$150 =AU$210
     
  29. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    They use the Vail day pass for a purchase at the window on the day you ski for the 4 days payback claim.

    It takes more days of you get the full discount by purchasing online more than 14 days before you ski.
     
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  30. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    True but...
    high day ticket prices can be a big obstracle to new skiers/boarders and those returning to the sport

    Good beginner deals help a but, but it is a big jump up to a season pass, especially when you haven't figured out how to get affordable accommodation.
     
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  31. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Which is why all the resorts offer invite a friend tickets with a season ticket and generally have some form of special pre season offering four day tickets for price of three.
     
  32. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Currawong and Snowgum, It was just a throw away comment on the five surface lifts that Falls Creek removed and never replaced. Each had their pros and cons:
    • Village served some nice sheltered blue runs and when combined with Summit and International, there was enough good skiing in the immediate vicinity to keep most people entertained for a day without venturing over to Sun Valley.
    • Nursery Pomas were good beginner lifts in the sheltered Bowl area. For a while they had a neighbour in Dogpatch, but that was removed before the duplex Nursery Pomas, so I suspect it wasn't used much.
    • Headwaters. As Currawong said, it was a really good lift for advanced beginners / low intermediates. I heard stories that one reason it was removed was that people ignored the boundary rope and skied off down the back side of the Summit, requiring rescue or assistance to climb out. (I'm too lazy to look up if this lift or Panorama Poma lasted longer, but Panorama was replaced with a chairlift.)
    • Saddle (aka Link Lift) allowed skiers to get from the Bowl to Sun Valley via the top of Summit / International. No one ever used it as a conventional ski lift, so it was redundant after Eagle triple chair was installed and it was left to rust.
    • Big Dipper. A duplex T-bar on the far side of Ruined Castle. My hazy childhood memories are that it was quite steep at the top with a long flattish run out at the bottom. A big cornice often formed on the ridge, but I'm not sure if Big Dipper was removed due to insufficient use by skiers OR avalanche danger OR that it was to be rebuilt as a lift on the way to Mt McKay. Anyway, I understand its components were stored in a shed near Howmans Gaps and burnt in the 2003 fires.
     
  33. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are no runs that were serviced by village that are not accessible from summit. The run from summit chair top to old village top is easier than village. The only loss is a sheltered lift on windy days.

    Big dipper was removed when ruined castle was upgraded from poma to chair. IIRC no capacity was lost and lots of people were happier to ride a chair than that t. Most people used to get off the t at the top of the steep bit (if they hadn't fallen off already ;) )and it's an easy traverse to there still. The other less frequently used runs further along the t line are not hard to get to for those who want some easy side country.

    I think dogpatch was removed when summit t was replaced by the chair due to fears of more collisions where summit slope met dogpatch slope. Also rerouting of hometrail.

    When bapy pomas were removed, the replacement carpet allowed the slope on skiers' right to be used still. Then the lift co made it tube access only. Removing beginner skiing from the bowl was a heinous crime

    After summit chair was built, they stuffed up headwater with features for boarders which made it unsuitable for beginners. Before the replacement of sunvalley t with scott chair, loos of people used headwater as an alternative way of returning to the village when queues for the t were long. So usage dwinndled. People going the wrong side of ropes may have been an issue but not that I am aware of.
     
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  34. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us

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    Of towns you may have heard of I guess the closest is Corryong. Actually in between Corryong and Tumbarumba ,some call it Tooma and some call it Towong depending on who in the area you talk to. We say we live in Tooma but my neighbor immediately north says Towong. Meh keeps the postal service wondering.
     
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  35. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    That surely would make it three hours to the resorts? Lot of driving for a day trip.
     
  36. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah nah. For me Melb to Mt Buller is 3.5 hours one way and we do plenty of day trips

    Google says Falls is closest with Perisher over 4 hours, which is tad further

    Plus now I know where Towong is....
     
  37. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    My parents famously did a day trip to falls, and mum breastfeed my sister in the car park! She was born in June! (And mum only breastfeed for 6 weeks apparently.)
     
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  38. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Gold! :D
     
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  39. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us

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    I wouldnt trust google times for trips. I just looked up from my place to Thredbo and it says 1 hour 47 minutes. I regularly do it in less than 1 ,to be honest I would be disappointed if I wasnt in Brunelli's at Perisher inside that 1 hour 47 minutes. I have regularly done the trip to Falls in under 2 hours with Hotham at around 2 hours 20-30 minutes. Easily done as a day trip if you dont have tin lids to worry about.
    It must be remembered living up here gets us used to driving in the conditions ,even at night ,in vehicles that have been adapted for the conditions ( tyres ,suspension ,steering , gearing etc) and to be honest most of the drive to any of these 4 resorts from my direction is pretty much like driving on a private road. I have driven to both Thredbo and Falls in the past without seeing another vehicle on the road in the case of Thredbo and only once you get to Mt Beauty when going to Falls. This tends to allow a bloke to make good time.
     
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  40. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well it's sucked me in. I'm working out details for a trip to FC early-mid August. It's a fair day's trip from Newcastle, but a motel in Albury looks like a good option to set me up for 8 full days' skiing with 7 nights' accommodation at Falls. :)
     
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  41. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Northern Beaches to Hotham is a tad over 8 hours depending what time you leave. Two drivers to Falls from Newie is easy
     
  42. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

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    One driver, solo trip.
     
  43. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Okay, that's tough. If solo and tired I normally stop in Holbrook, marginally cheaper than Albury.
     
  44. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly What a plonker. Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, a few options there. My main consideration is staying somewhere on a Saturday night that's close enough that I can get there for first lifts on Sunday morning.
     
  45. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Depending on road conditions post Harrietville expect minimum 2 hours from Albury or 3 from Holbrook. Chain fitting and shitty snow covered roads can add an hour or so. Still a worthy trip. PM me if you're looking for on mountain accommodation. :thumbs:
     
  46. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    As a perisher person.
    It's odd.
    Victorians .
    I'm amazed the slow state got involved.

    Mind you Rusuts is going to be ridiculous with all those Hothamites
    They love it up there
    Vale
     
  47. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    You been to Hotham @Donzah ? Or even Falls? Get out of your bubble. Buller may also challenge you right @CarveMan
     
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  48. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perisher snowboarder would hate Buller the way I like to ski it. More bumps than the rest of the Oz resorts combined.
     
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  49. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Good, keep them north of the border. :thumbs:
     
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  50. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds horrible.
    I like linked turns and banks to jib and smash.
    *skier speak