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Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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At this stage I think it's OK for me to go up to XC ski from Mt Beauty since we are permitted to travel for exercise and recreation. The expected falls may revive some trails if they're groomed.

As an aside if anyone wants to try a spectacular track in their 4WD, it's Bay Ck Tk from the Eskdale Spur Tk down into the valley (near Ceccanti). It's as steep as anything I've seen in the high country. It's recently been scraped so there's little erosion but there is clay.
 

Xplora

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At this stage I think it's OK for me to go up to XC ski from Mt Beauty since we are permitted to travel for exercise and recreation. The expected falls may revive some trails if they're groomed.

As an aside if anyone wants to try a spectacular track in their 4WD, it's Bay Ck Tk from the Eskdale Spur Tk down into the valley (near Ceccanti). It's as steep as anything I've seen in the high country. It's recently been scraped so there's little erosion but there is clay.
I am reading the restrictions with some confusion. I know it was reported in the media regarding travel for exercise and the answer was no but the media release from the Premier's office does not indicate this. Parks Vic site will be updated shortly if not already and this may have influence on any park use. Early this week PV information stated bushwalking was allowed in groups up to 20. The Premier said you can only exercise with one other person who is not in your house. As usual, more precise information comes out for Melbourne and the regionals get a 'whatever'.
 

KylePee

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I am reading the restrictions with some confusion. I know it was reported in the media regarding travel for exercise and the answer was no but the media release from the Premier's office does not indicate this. Parks Vic site will be updated shortly if not already and this may have influence on any park use. Early this week PV information stated bushwalking was allowed in groups up to 20. The Premier said you can only exercise with one other person who is not in your house. As usual, more precise information comes out for Melbourne and the regionals get a 'whatever'.
It took a while for the key questions to be updated for Melbourne across various websites etc. you can look at the declaration if you want to interpret in the meantime
 

Rick Ross Da Boss

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I am reading the restrictions with some confusion. I know it was reported in the media regarding travel for exercise and the answer was no but the media release from the Premier's office does not indicate this. Parks Vic site will be updated shortly if not already and this may have influence on any park use. Early this week PV information stated bushwalking was allowed in groups up to 20. The Premier said you can only exercise with one other person who is not in your house. As usual, more precise information comes out for Melbourne and the regionals get a 'whatever'.
Nonsense, we had the same murky messaging with the start of stage 3, just give them some time ffs
 

Xplora

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Nonsense, we had the same murky messaging with the start of stage 3, just give them some time ffs
I am not sure what you are calling nonsense but it doesn't matter. I said I am finding some confusing and conflicting reports regarding regional areas from media and other government sites. You agree there was 'murky messaging' at the start and then tell me to give them time to sort this out. So you agree there is still some murky messaging. The time to sort all this out has past well and truly given the government has had plenty of experience up to now to get the message straight. I agree with @Ziggy regarding being able to drive for recreation but specifically there is not limit stated on how far you can drive. Media are reporting travel restrictions for regional areas. Where did that come from? If I wanted to paddle my sea kayak for recreation then I could in theory drive 3 hours to do that as the Premier's release does not restrict travel. Things like this usually get sorted when someone is pulled over and fined then complains to the media.
I doubt the small amount of snow that fell yesterday at Falls would encourage anyone to make the effort anyway.
 

geekman

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Aug 2, 2016
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I am not sure what you are calling nonsense but it doesn't matter. I said I am finding some confusing and conflicting reports regarding regional areas from media and other government sites. You agree there was 'murky messaging' at the start and then tell me to give them time to sort this out. So you agree there is still some murky messaging. The time to sort all this out has past well and truly given the government has had plenty of experience up to now to get the message straight. I agree with @Ziggy regarding being able to drive for recreation but specifically there is not limit stated on how far you can drive. Media are reporting travel restrictions for regional areas. Where did that come from? If I wanted to paddle my sea kayak for recreation then I could in theory drive 3 hours to do that as the Premier's release does not restrict travel. Things like this usually get sorted when someone is pulled over and fined then complains to the media.
I doubt the small amount of snow that fell yesterday at Falls would encourage anyone to make the effort anyway.

Based on the updated stage 3 rules from a couple weeks ago where they tried to restrict distance to travel in Melbourne, you could travel to the nearest location for said activity. So in theory xc skiing in Falls or driving 3 hours to paddle you kayak is ok if its the closest location to do just that. For example, it was completely legal to travel from 1.5 hrs from Werribee to Mornington Peninsula to surf as Surf Coast was off limits to Melbourne. It was a painfully stupid loophole but what can you do
 

Ziggy

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Scott's, looking to Spion and Bogong; this day 2014 ...

Falls Ck - Spion - Bogong 5.8.14 edit.jpg
 

Xplora

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Thanks Ziggy. I am not looking for loopholes. Just want to know what I can and can't do this time around. There are some changes to the last time. I did notice at this site the word 'recreation' is no longer mentioned in the same breath as exercise https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/travel-regional-victoria-covid-19#can-i-travel-to-my-holiday-house also last time people were able to travel between residences. Seems like you can travel as far as you can without having to get out of the vehicle for another reason other than the nominated 4 but then if you do get out you only have to wear a mask. Hopefully PV keep things open also. We may also see an early opening of BHP road. It wouldn't take much to have it open now.
 
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Ziggy

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Rumour was that resort entry was closed to non-residents.

This morning there's no option on the website to register for a day entry pass.
 

rowdyflat

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Rumour was that resort entry was closed to non-residents.

This morning there's no option on the website to register for a day entry pass.
Doesnt sound good.
May have to stick to mountain biking , sewing and knitting.
" I'll remember April" as the most quiet working , least sick month in 40 years.
 

currawong

Old but not so Crusty
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Sep 17, 2003
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FC is officially closed now to anyone not already living there for the duration of stage 3.
xc grooming is finished for the season
Further to this announcement, Falls Creek Resort Management (FCRM) have now been advised by the Victorian Government that National Parks and the Alpine Resorts within are to close for the duration of the stage 3 ‘Stay at Home’ restrictions for regional Victoria. This closure begun at 11.59pm last night.
 
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Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Doesnt sound good.
May have to stick to mountain biking , sewing and knitting.
" I'll remember April" as the most quiet working , least sick month in 40 years.
The Nat. parks are now closed namely The Alpine N.P., Baw Baw N.P. and Mt. Buffalo N.P.. State parks in the N.E. such as Mt. Wills and Mt. Skene are in theory still open for XC skiing.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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FC is officially closed now to anyone not already living there for the duration of stage 3.
xc grooming is finished for the season
Further to this announcement, Falls Creek Resort Management (FCRM) have now been advised by the Victorian Government that National Parks and the Alpine Resorts within are to close for the duration of the stage 3 ‘Stay at Home’ restrictions for regional Victoria. This closure begun at 11.59pm last night.
The Party is well and truly over comrades. Just chew on that shite sandwich and hope for better skiing in 2021.
 

Ziggy

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Aug 24, 2003
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I can't find out what that means.

Can't use any facilities - I get that.
Can't walk across the boundary? - but we can in regional Vic go to a park or forest for outdoor recreation or exercise.
Can't drive through? There are significant roads that go through.
 

Bogong

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I can't find out what that means.

Can't use any facilities - I get that.
Can't walk across the boundary? - but we can in regional Vic can go to a park or forest for outdoor recreation or exercise.
Can't drive through? There are significant roads that go through.
Well our premier said:
'Use your common sense, don't look for loopholes, if it feels like it's against the spirit of things, then don't do it.'

So it's up to each of us to interpret that in accordance with our own conscience, regardless of whether the authorities are likely to be there to "assist you in making that decision" or not.
 

Xplora

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The Nat. parks are now closed namely The Alpine N.P., Baw Baw N.P. and Mt. Buffalo N.P.. State parks in the N.E. such as Mt. Wills and Mt. Skene are in theory still open for XC skiing.
Mt. Wills is not a state park it is an historic area surrounded by state forest and the Alpine National Park.
but we can in regional Vic can go to a park or forest for outdoor recreation or exercise
and I have surmised this aspect refers to parks which remain open. Clear as mud still. When enforcement comes down to interpretation then it is anyone's guess.
 

Ziggy

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The State government has adopted a rules-based system, not one of informed responsible autonomy, and necessarily there are gaps and ambiguities. They can't then expect common sense to solve the problem.
 

Xplora

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Well our premier said:
'Use your common sense, don't look for loopholes, if it feels like it's against the spirit of things, then don't do it.'

So it's up to each of us to interpret that in accordance with our own conscience, regardless of whether the authorities are likely to be there to "assist you in making that decision" or not.
I can safely do many things using my common sense which will put me at far less risk than your average punter but all I want to know is want I am legally allowed to do. The rules apply to me equally as any other person regardless of the lower risk and I intend to abide by them because that shows solidarity and through solidarity we can get over this.
 

gaz35

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I can safely do many things using my common sense which will put me at far less risk than your average punter but all I want to know is want I am legally allowed to do. The rules apply to me equally as any other person regardless of the lower risk and I intend to abide by them because that shows solidarity and through solidarity we can get over this.
if you want a legal opinion i suggest you see a lawyer
 
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currawong

Old but not so Crusty
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It seems fairly clear that we are not allowed to use the closed parks for recreation and exercise. Driving through them by a reasonably direct route to get to a destination for one of the allowed reasons would surely be permitted. Riding a bike on a rd that is close to home but goes through a closed park is hopefully ok, eg mt beauty to orange bridge. (In melbourne it seems that 20km was about the limit that police allowed)
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Yes.
I've been staring at maps.
It appears that Parks Vic signs notwithstanding, the BHP road to the resort and the GAR are not part of the ANP.
Lake Guy and surrounds ditto.
AFAIK Buckland Gap is in the state forest en route to Mt. St. Bernard.There are other such state forest locations in the Ovens and Kiewa valley areas that contain state forests that would have some rock hopper XC ski options and plenty of mountain biking options.
I will stare at some maps too , for all the good they will do us here in Lepersville .

I do have a question for @Chaeron .The 4 WD route up to Big Hill lookout starts near Cranky Charlie. The sign for Cranky Charlie has gone. So on the Falls Creek approach road from Mt. Beauty is the right track to take the one about 5 kms out from Mt. Beauty that goes around a pronounced bend and passes a Kiewa power station type sign?. I want to scout that out in summer for a multi night trip to the Fainters in late August 2021.
 

KylePee

Cage rattler
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I can safely do many things using my common sense which will put me at far less risk than your average punter but all I want to know is want I am legally allowed to do. The rules apply to me equally as any other person regardless of the lower risk and I intend to abide by them because that shows solidarity and through solidarity we can get over this.
I feel for you, I was asking very similar questions at the same stage in Melbourne. Lots of examples of what was clearly seen as ridiculous, but a bit difficult to get clarity around the middle ground. The problem there is that 'safe' people end up feeling quite restricted, while others still go out and do silly things. You at least now have the Stage 4 Melbourne restrictions to give you a base at one end. At the other, the main guide seemed mostly to be to err on the side of caution, and act in the manner you mention
 

Xplora

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Yes.
I've been staring at maps.
It appears that Parks Vic signs notwithstanding, the BHP road to the resort and the GAR are not part of the ANP.
Lake Guy and surrounds ditto.
You are correct. BHP road from Mt. Beauty to the dam wall is managed by Vic Roads and is not considered part of the park. Past the dam wall the road is inclusive in the park regardless of the fact the road is maintained by the shires. This information comes from Acts of Parliament and the subordinate legislation (regulations). Mt. Buffalo road is also not part of the park but away from the road easement is and you can find all this out if you read the legislation. I understand legislation very well and spend a great deal of time reading through it as well as case law. It is not a hobby or something to pass the time. With no disrespect to our learned friends here, I don't generally require a definitive answer from a lawyer to work out what is and is not lawful. Lawyers are more often required after the fact and the information provided so far needs clarity in my view so people can avoid the need for representation or avoid a fine. An email from the area chief ranger for the Bogong (Ovens) area (which I has only been read to me) indicated the park was closed to all activity. I have his number and will give him a call but he is only acting on advice and interpretation provided by someone else who is probably interpreting the information provided by the Premier's dept. @Ziggy is right again, these things are not legislature.
 
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Rick Ross Da Boss

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AFAIK Buckland Gap is in the state forest en route to Mt. St. Bernard.There are other such state forest locations in the Ovens and Kiewa valley areas that contain state forests that would have some rock hopper XC ski options and plenty of mountain biking options.
I will stare at some maps too , for all the good they will do us here in Lepersville .

I do have a question for @Chaeron .The 4 WD route up to Big Hill lookout starts near Cranky Charlie. The sign for Cranky Charlie has gone. So on the Falls Creek approach road from Mt. Beauty is the right track to take the one about 5 kms out from Mt. Beauty that goes around a pronounced bend and passes a Kiewa power station type sign?. I want to scout that out in summer for a multi night trip to the Fainters in late August 2021.
There’s gates a loooong long way Before fainters
 
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Ziggy

A Local
Aug 24, 2003
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AFAIK Buckland Gap is in the state forest en route to Mt. St. Bernard.There are other such state forest locations in the Ovens and Kiewa valley areas that contain state forests that would have some rock hopper XC ski options and plenty of mountain biking options.
I will stare at some maps too , for all the good they will do us here in Lepersville .

I do have a question for @Chaeron .The 4 WD route up to Big Hill lookout starts near Cranky Charlie. The sign for Cranky Charlie has gone. So on the Falls Creek approach road from Mt. Beauty is the right track to take the one about 5 kms out from Mt. Beauty that goes around a pronounced bend and passes a Kiewa power station type sign?. I want to scout that out in summer for a multi night trip to the Fainters in late August 2021.
To Big Hill Lookout it's 2wd.
From the gate there some folk cycle, even with skis.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Melbourne, Lockdown-i-stan .
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Fainters are a worthwhile destination when the snow is on.

Bogong Jack hut close by - emergency shelter, but not a nice hut.
I have been there on foot coming in from Bogong Village and from Tawonga huts. Bogong Jack saddle is a great campsite.
Yes Bogong jack Saddle hut is nothing special. I just wanted to confirm that the track I have described is the vehicular track's starting point from Cranky Charlie .
 
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