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currawong

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Do xc skiers by a trail pass or season pass to cover the maintenance costs of the cross country trails, or are all the costs worn by resort entry and the lift co?

Surely there must be a xc ski club at falls creek that should be leading discussions towards a better solution? Could even be delaying the changes until a trail can be funded and built by the xc community. At the end of the day all snow users need to be catered for but you have to help yourself can’t just sit back and throw stones.
XC skiers don't buy a trail pass. Admin and enforcement used to cost more than it raised. and discouraged participation. They do pay resort entry which is currently $55 for a day if purchased online.

The lift co do not contribute, except in as much as they pay lease and service fees like all businesses and property owners in the resort.

Representatives of the xc community are advocating/negotiating for better outcomes. That includes the National XC Training Centre and Birkebeiner Nordic Ski Club (Mt Beauty based club that runs the hoppet).

Funding for capital projects in the resort is always difficult. One major avenue is to apply for purpose-tied grants for projects that will have benefits beyond the primary ones claimed in the application. IIRC the carpark is on the tails of grants.
$3m in funding [for the Lakeside Development project] is being provided under the Federal Local Economic Recovery program and the Victorian State Governments Alpine Business Support program administered through Regional Development Victoria, together with the Victorian Fisheries Authority support for the associated boat ramp installation. In-kind and project management support equivalent to $0.5M is being provided by Falls Creek Resort Management.

This means that long term initiatives sometimes proceed in crazy steps because they have to grab the funding they can get, when it is available and not necessarily be able to use it for a logical next step. It also means the other steps may never happen if the wished for funding never eventuates.

As I said, I'm sceptical but still hopeful, that a solution is found that creates extra winter carparking, improves the lakeside precinct for summer enjoyment and allows recreational and racing xc skiers, and snowplayers, to safely enjoy their activities.

If you are interested in this project, there is more info on the FCRM corporate web site at https://corporate.fallscreek.com.au/2022/07/15/lakeside-development-project-planning/ . The FAQs have a lot of vague good-intentioned statements about protecting xc skiing. This includes not clearing the road until a safe alternative for walkers and xc skiers is established. I think the most likely is improved access from Windy Corner shelter to the aqueduct. The shuttle buses will also run to the nordic bowl and ANARE, although capacity/frequency is not addressed.
 

N0frilz

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XC skiers don't buy a trail pass. Admin and enforcement used to cost more than it raised. and discouraged participation. They do pay resort entry which is currently $55 for a day if purchased online.

The lift co do not contribute, except in as much as they pay lease and service fees like all businesses and property owners in the resort.

Representatives of the xc community are advocating/negotiating for better outcomes. That includes the National XC Training Centre and Birkebeiner Nordic Ski Club (Mt Beauty based club that runs the hoppet).

Funding for capital projects in the resort is always difficult. One major avenue is to apply for purpose-tied grants for projects that will have benefits beyond the primary ones claimed in the application. IIRC the carpark is on the tails of grants.
$3m in funding [for the Lakeside Development project] is being provided under the Federal Local Economic Recovery program and the Victorian State Governments Alpine Business Support program administered through Regional Development Victoria, together with the Victorian Fisheries Authority support for the associated boat ramp installation. In-kind and project management support equivalent to $0.5M is being provided by Falls Creek Resort Management.

This means that long term initiatives sometimes proceed in crazy steps because they have to grab the funding they can get, when it is available and not necessarily be able to use it for a logical next step. It also means the other steps may never happen if the wished for funding never eventuates.

As I said, I'm sceptical but still hopeful, that a solution is found that creates extra winter carparking, improves the lakeside precinct for summer enjoyment and allows recreational and racing xc skiers, and snowplayers, to safely enjoy their activities.

If you are interested in this project, there is more info on the FCRM corporate web site at https://corporate.fallscreek.com.au/2022/07/15/lakeside-development-project-planning/ . The FAQs have a lot of vague good-intentioned statements about protecting xc skiing. This includes not clearing the road until a safe alternative for walkers and xc skiers is established. I think the most likely is improved access from Windy Corner shelter to the aqueduct. The shuttle buses will also run to the nordic bowl and ANARE, although capacity/frequency is not addressed.
Interesting I’ll have a read.

Just seems a very different approach to the snow farm in Nz which number seem to grow every year.
 
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currawong

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Interesting I’ll have a read.

Just seems a very different approach to the snow farm in Nz which number seem to grow every year.
IIRC snow farm was established as a private business on private land, although recently sold to a more "public" arrangement.

Falls Creek resort is crown land and everything is regulated by government with almost identical regulations across Falls, Hotham, Buller, Stirling, Baw Baw and Lake Mountain.

Hardly surprising there are differences
 

soza

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One thing for sure is that we need more day parking. Recently a lot of social media posts from FCRM are highlighting this fact. Telling people to stay home is never good business practice. One car of day tripping lift users is $1000 and that's without food, drinks and stopping to night ski!
I've seen more newbie first timers this year than ever before, lots more day trippers from Albury/Wodonga/Wang/Wagga,
Huge smiles all around. Most will be back every year.
Luckily Falls has enough room for everyone we just need parking....... and more green runs.

IMO
Lakeside should definitely be utilised as the trail head for summer. The MTB network continues to grow and slalom car park with a few traffic cones and a storage container cafe doest really cut it. Certainly doesn't mirror the world class trails we have and the more still to come that are earmarked for around the lake. Plus the lake is beautiful for Fishing, paddle boarding, kayaking, sailing, windsurfing

In winter ....
Could the ANARE upgrade also be a base for more lift access terrain?
Lots of nice green runs could filter down from panorama park, wombats and even following days end onto pretty valley rd. Would only need a poma up to the top of panorama park. Would certainly ease the pressure on drovers and towers.

Winter parking at Lakeside obviously comes with its own problems and I can totally see why the XC community are concerned. Even if the XC trails were diverted it's not a great bit of road to drive. Probably more suited to overnight parking that you are escorted too and not for constant day use. Certainly couldn't be shared with foot traffic.
Hopefully an agreement can be made or an alternative option found.

Speaking of. What other alternative do we have?
The 2016 master plan to me seemed like pipe dreams and I certainly can't imagine multi story undercover parking and gondola access anytime soon.

Bogong village? And regular bus service?
Could help with staff accommodation and be attractive to sightseeing day trippers not wanting to pay resort entry and mess about with chains.

Or a more attractive and affordable service from Mount beauty. Certainly not worth it at the moment for day trippers. Maybe offer a deal for those staying a week or more on the mountain. Free off mountain parking and transfers?
 

Rick Ross Da Boss

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LDJ

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What’s internet/phone reception like at FC? Heading down from QLD week of 15th Aug and unfortunately will definitely have to work in between skiing. On Vodafone but do have Telstra sim and if Voda is no go.
 
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currawong

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What’s internet/phone reception like at FC? Heading down from QLD week of 15th Aug and unfortunately will definitely have to work in between skiing. On Vodafone but do have Telstra sim and if Voda is no go.
Telstra is fine
coverage is one issue. capacity is another. while telstra coverage is pretty good, the capacity can be a problem.

there is no NBN and the mobile internet struggles at peak times. some lodges have subscribed to a private fibre provider. if you are lucky enough to be staying in one of those you will be fine. otherwise you may need to choose your time to work. blue bird days with fresh snow would be ideal ;)
 

Goski

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One thing for sure is that we need more day parking. Recently a lot of social media posts from FCRM are highlighting this fact. Telling people to stay home is never good business practice. One car of day tripping lift users is $1000 and that's without food, drinks and stopping to night ski!
I've seen more newbie first timers this year than ever before, lots more day trippers from Albury/Wodonga/Wang/Wagga,
Huge smiles all around. Most will be back every year.
Luckily Falls has enough room for everyone we just need parking....... and more green runs.

IMO
Lakeside should definitely be utilised as the trail head for summer. The MTB network continues to grow and slalom car park with a few traffic cones and a storage container cafe doest really cut it. Certainly doesn't mirror the world class trails we have and the more still to come that are earmarked for around the lake. Plus the lake is beautiful for Fishing, paddle boarding, kayaking, sailing, windsurfing

In winter ....
Could the ANARE upgrade also be a base for more lift access terrain?
Lots of nice green runs could filter down from panorama park, wombats and even following days end onto pretty valley rd. Would only need a poma up to the top of panorama park. Would certainly ease the pressure on drovers and towers.

Winter parking at Lakeside obviously comes with its own problems and I can totally see why the XC community are concerned. Even if the XC trails were diverted it's not a great bit of road to drive. Probably more suited to overnight parking that you are escorted too and not for constant day use. Certainly couldn't be shared with foot traffic.
Hopefully an agreement can be made or an alternative option found.

Speaking of. What other alternative do we have?
The 2016 master plan to me seemed like pipe dreams and I certainly can't imagine multi story undercover parking and gondola access anytime soon.

Bogong village? And regular bus service?
Could help with staff accommodation and be attractive to sightseeing day trippers not wanting to pay resort entry and mess about with chains.

Or a more attractive and affordable service from Mount beauty. Certainly not worth it at the moment for day trippers. Maybe offer a deal for those staying a week or more on the mountain. Free off mountain parking and transfers?
Cover Lower Slalom and use the top for day parking? Underneath for overnight.

My recollection of Bogong Village doesn't have much room for vehicle parking. We'd still have the problem of inexperienced drivers clogging up the road.

IMO an upgraded shuttle bus service - with small buses e.g. Toyota Coasters or HiAce Commuters, to and from Mt Beauty is the best option for reducing the demand in car parks, particularly for the snowgazers.

The current bus is already a good option for one or two or three people staying a week. Bus cost vs casual resort car parking fees plus chain hire and fuel comparison stacks up well for the bus option.
 
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LDJ

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some lodges have subscribed to a private fibre provider. if you are lucky enough to be staying in one of those you will be fine. otherwise you may need to choose your time to work. blue bird days with fresh snow would be ideal ;)
staying at pretty valley lodge. Weirdly I seem to get really ill and unable to work every time there is blue sky and powder…
 
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soza

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Cover Lower Slalom and use the top for day parking? Underneath for overnight.

My recollection of Bogong Village doesn't have much room for vehicle parking. We'd still have the problem of inexperienced drivers clogging up the road.

IMO an upgraded shuttle bus service - with small buses e.g. Toyota Coasters or HiAce Commuters, to and from Mt Beauty is the best option for reducing the demand in car parks, particularly for the snowgazers.

The current bus is already a good option for one or two or three people staying a week. Bus cost vs casual resort car parking fees plus chain hire and fuel comparison stacks up well for the bus option.
Never thought of covering lower slalom. As it drops down It would almost be camouflaged into the landscape and be very inviting for long stay parkers not wanting to dig the car out at the end of a holiday.
Bogong would need some major development, not just parking but the whole village. Probably cheaper to do the slalom upgrade.

At current prices the Falls Creek coach service from Mount Beauty will struggle to appeal to day trippers. Its about $70 per person return.
Yet it's only $170 return from Melbourne or $95 return from Albury.
 

Goski

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Never thought of covering lower slalom. As it drops down It would almost be camouflaged into the landscape and be very inviting for long stay parkers not wanting to dig the car out at the end of a holiday.
Bogong would need some major development, not just parking but the whole village. Probably cheaper to do the slalom upgrade.

At current prices the Falls Creek coach service from Mount Beauty will struggle to appeal to day trippers. Its about $70 per person return.
Yet it's only $170 return from Melbourne or $95 return from Albury.
So at $170 return from Melbourne for two people staying for a week, it is $340 total vs fuel $200, 7 nights parking $380, chain hire say $100 assuming don't own chains. $680 total. Excludes vehicle wear and tear, tyre use. For one person the $$ choice is clear. My high school classmate who gave me Covid last week :emoji_cold_sweat:used the bus from Melbourne. She got into Melbourne 11.30pm after leaving Falls at 3pm. Not bad at all.
 
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Goski

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I really do think covering lower Slalom would be a good option to increase parking spaces. Top deck for day trippers, bottom for overnighters. Lower Windy could get the same treatment. Falls Management could probably charge extra for undercover parking to slowly offset the big dollars it would take to build it.
 

Auska

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I really do think covering lower Slalom would be a good option to increase parking spaces. Top deck for day trippers, bottom for overnighters. Lower Windy could get the same treatment. Falls Management could probably charge extra for undercover parking to slowly offset the big dollars it would take to build it.
charging extra for undercover parking works for those who buy parking on arrival, would be a lot more difficult to accommodate season pass holders
 

Xplora

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coverage is one issue. capacity is another. while telstra coverage is pretty good, the capacity can be a problem.
I was chatting with one of the Teltra Country wide heads a few years back about coverage and he said they put in some temporary solutions for winter to increase capacity. Not sure if that is still happening.
 

currawong

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I was chatting with one of the Teltra Country wide heads a few years back about coverage and he said they put in some temporary solutions for winter to increase capacity. Not sure if that is still happening.
nor I

and i'm not sure if the extra was ever really enough. but I've hardly been there for 3 years so who knows
 
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currawong

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Resort snow access is a finite resource….

Redirecting metropolitan snow play to Lake Mountain, Donna Buang and Mt Baw Baw will hopefully be one outcome of an amalgamated Victorian resorts board.
but how?

they can try advertising and also make it cheaper to go to the smaller resorts. but if people want to go to the majors, you really can't stop them. like telling them to go to Rosebud instead or Torquay
 

towie81

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So Saturday parking is booked out. I have tried booking a bus ticket but the bus website tells me there is nothing available. Well this is very annoying for friends who don’t have a seasons parking ticket.
 

djam

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Resort snow access is a finite resource….

Redirecting metropolitan snow play to Lake Mountain, Donna Buang and Mt Baw Baw will hopefully be one outcome of an amalgamated Victorian resorts board.

they all fill up as well, it is a state wide problem..
 
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currawong

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So Saturday parking is booked out. I have tried booking a bus ticket but the bus website tells me there is nothing available. Well this is very annoying for friends who don’t have a seasons parking ticket.
It's horrible, but the option to buy online has been there all season. I think it's better that RMB are telling people ahead of time that it's booked out rather than having them travel for a n hour or 3 to find that they can't get in.

Might be worth ringing the bus co in case they are putting on extra services that haven't made it into the website.
If there is a group, might be worth trying https://www.mtbeautytransfers.com.au/ too.
 

snowgum

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Resort snow access is a finite resource….

Redirecting metropolitan snow play to Lake Mountain, Donna Buang and Mt Baw Baw will hopefully be one outcome of an amalgamated Victorian resorts board.

I’m not sure it’s that simple. We’re having that discussion on others threads.

The 2 small hills are frantically busy on weekends and school hols when there’s good snow, sometimes when it’s very ordinary.

As noted on the Buller page; some folks want the bright lights, shops, cafes and bars, they want to take family (often grandparents) to see snow for the first time.

Baw Baw has few bright lights (few or no plans for more) and Lake Mtn none bar a family bistro.

They’re different products to the big 3.

And Stirling isn’t much good for most Buller site-seers, it has a gravel road, not a huge main car park, one small cafe, and the killer, TBJ is usually just below the snow line - you have to haul folks up to King Saddle for a play.

Maybe differential pricing and marketing may help. Add more cafes and venues for BBaw?

Make the bus more cost competitive with the car; $70 pp rtn from Mt B. Isn't competitive with 5 or 8 seater wagon/ people mover?

Not an easy fix but solutions need work not band aids or waiting for poor snow seasons in lieu of planning.
 

soza

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Make the bus more cost competitive with the car; $70 pp rtn from Mt B. Isn't competitive with 5 or 8 seater wagon/ people mover?
Probably needs the resort to help subsidise the cost from mount Beauty. A good example of this is the Big commercial NZ slopes.
40 minute bus journey from Queenstown to remarkables $20 return. $15 if you park at the bottom of the hill.
Mt Hutt another 40 minute journey $25 from Methven. I'm sure both are services provided by NZski

NZ resorts all suffer with limited parking (and some very scary access roads) but they definitely know how to cram in the paying punters. It's also quite normal to have to park a couple of KM from the main ski terminal and have to wait for the free courtesy bus.

Day parking sold out again today.
I've decided not to go up this morning but if I did it would have been me alone in a car using the season pass. More than likely I would have arrived at 0830 and left the hill at 1230 after eating my packed lunch and a coffee from the flask i made that morning. Some family of five would have missed out along with the possible thousands of dollars they would have spent on lifts, lessons, hire, food and resort entry.
 
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currawong

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Probably needs the resort to help subsidise the cost from mount Beauty. A good example of this is the Big commercial NZ slopes.
40 minute bus journey from Queenstown to remarkables $20 return. $15 if you park at the bottom of the hill.
Mt Hutt another 40 minute journey $25 from Methven. I'm sure both are services provided by NZski

NZ resorts all suffer with limited parking (and some very scary access roads) but they definitely know how to cram in the paying punters. It's also quiet normal to have to park a couple of KM from the main ski terminal and have to wait for the free courtesy bus.

Day parking sold out again today.
I've decided not to go up this morning but if I did it would have been me alone in a car using the season pass. More than likely I would have arrived at 0830 and left the hill at 1230 after eating my packed lunch and a coffee from the flask i made that morning. Some family of five would have missed out along with the possible thousands of dollars they would have spent on lifts, lessons, hire, food and resort entry.

I sort of agree but resort subsidising means paid for by increasing other entry fees and/or service fees on businesses and property owners.

I can't help wondering if we are going to see season pass holders having to "book" their visit ahead of time in future. Hopefully it won't come to that.
 

Sadie

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Probably needs the resort to help subsidise the cost from mount Beauty. A good example of this is the Big commercial NZ slopes.
40 minute bus journey from Queenstown to remarkables $20 return. $15 if you park at the bottom of the hill.
Mt Hutt another 40 minute journey $25 from Methven. I'm sure both are services provided by NZski

NZ resorts all suffer with limited parking (and some very scary access roads) but they definitely know how to cram in the paying punters. It's also quiet normal to have to park a couple of KM from the main ski terminal and have to wait for the free courtesy bus.

Day parking sold out again today.
I've decided not to go up this morning but if I did it would have been me alone in a car using the season pass. More than likely I would have arrived at 0830 and left the hill at 1230 after eating my packed lunch and a coffee from the flask i made that morning. Some family of five would have missed out along with the possible thousands of dollars they would have spent on lifts, lessons, hire, food and resort entry.
I agree with this, but you’ve also committed way ahead of time. You’ve dropped $1000 before it’s even thought about snowing.
If it’s a crap year, the resorts still have your money.
 

Goski

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I agree with this, but you’ve also committed way ahead of time. You’ve dropped $1000 before it’s even thought about snowing.
If it’s a crap year, the resorts still have your money.
$1300 for an early bird resort entry and one Epic Pass or $2200 for a couple buying Epic Passes. I also dropped another $1200 for two child Epic passes which we probably won't break even on with the progeny's year 12 commitments this year ( unless we shout them a trip to Japan or Canada next February and use them there).

For that, I would like to continue to be able to get access and ski on spec. It does cost me about $20 in fuel plus vehicle wear and tear to drive up and down each day from Mt Beauty so on days when it's just me, a reliable shuttle bus for a similar amount would be attractive. Might meet some new ski buddies in the bus too.
 

currawong

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There is an article by FCRM CEO Stuart Smythe in the latest This Week in Falls Creek paper. You can read it online at https://issuu.com/thisweekfcmtb/docs/fcmbtw_w22-08/2 on p2-3.

He points out some of the challenges and also talks about the planned additional parking at lakeside (day) and also half way down the road to howman's (overnight) and that the new overnight parking would allow more of lower slalom and lower windy to be used for day parking. He also puts the cost of a multi-storey car park at $35M+
 
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Sadie

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$1300 for an early bird resort entry and one Epic Pass or $2200 for a couple buying Epic Passes. I also dropped another $1200 for two child Epic passes which we probably won't break even on with the progeny's year 12 commitments this year ( unless we shout them a trip to Japan or Canada next February and use them there).

For that, I would like to continue to be able to get access and ski on spec. It does cost me about $20 in fuel plus vehicle wear and tear to drive up and down each day from Mt Beauty so on days when it's just me, a reliable shuttle bus for a similar amount would be attractive. Might meet some new ski buddies in the bus too.
Exactly… the day tripppers can catch a bus
 
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Young Angus

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So did falls and Hotham close to Day trippers or just falls? Maybe that’s why Hotham looked so gross when I drove through to DP this afternoon?
 

snowgum

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So did falls and Hotham close to Day trippers or just falls? Maybe that’s why Hotham looked so gross when I drove through to DP this afternoon?
I don’t Hotham has the same intensity of problem re parking - since they can keep pushing people Down the hill to the next park. (Flat)

Theoretically, even DP could become a commuter location but buses would Need upgrading.
 
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Scott No Mates

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What’s internet/phone reception like at FC? Heading down from QLD week of 15th Aug and unfortunately will definitely have to work in between skiing. On Vodafone but do have Telstra sim and if Voda is no go.
1660182165740.png


That's a list of the base stations located around Falls Creek. By the looks of it, VHA has a COW (Cell on Wheels) near the Ski Patrol Building at the top (a little away from Cloud 9) and on the Admin building near the day carpark. All of the Carriers are well represented.
 
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snowgum

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There is an article by FCRM CEO Stuart Smythe in the latest This Week in Falls Creek paper. You can read it online at https://issuu.com/thisweekfcmtb/docs/fcmbtw_w22-08/2 on p2-3.

He points out some of the challenges and also talks about the planned additional parking at lakeside (day) and also half way down the road to howman's (overnight) and that the new overnight parking would allow more of lower slalom and lower windy to be used for day parking. He also puts the cost of a multi-storey car park at $35M+
Mm for ~$35, FCk could almost get their long-awaited swimming pool centre.

Now that would really transform the mountain, especially in summer. And encourage valley-stayers to try a stint on the hill.
 

soza

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Very proud dad moment today.

10 years ago our 6 year old son first strapped onto a snowboard at Falls Creek.
Today he completed his APSI level 1 snowboard instructor training.
Big shout out to the APSI team at Falls, the support and encouragement has been amazing. 4 long days and lots of study but he has loved every second.
Looking forward to see where this journey takes him.



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FB_IMG_1658875314971.jpg

IMG_20220811_191900.jpg
 
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elSpike

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Very proud dad moment today.

10 years ago our 6 year old son first strapped onto a snowboard at Falls Creek.
Today he completed his APSI level 1 snowboard instructor training.
Big shout out to the APSI team at Falls, the support and encouragement has been amazing. 4 long days and lots of study but he has loved every second.
Looking forward to see where this journey takes him.



FB_IMG_1658875269375.jpg
FB_IMG_1658875314971.jpg
Please pass on our congratulations from all of us here. Great accomplishment.
 
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Hully

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Very proud dad moment today.

10 years ago our 6 year old son first strapped onto a snowboard at Falls Creek.
Today he completed his APSI level 1 snowboard instructor training.
Big shout out to the APSI team at Falls, the support and encouragement has been amazing. 4 long days and lots of study but he has loved every second.
Looking forward to see where this journey takes him.



FB_IMG_1658875269375.jpg
FB_IMG_1658875314971.jpg
Awesome..... please pass my congratulations on to him. He should be very pleased with himself.
 

Sadie

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Very proud dad moment today.

10 years ago our 6 year old son first strapped onto a snowboard at Falls Creek.
Today he completed his APSI level 1 snowboard instructor training.
Big shout out to the APSI team at Falls, the support and encouragement has been amazing. 4 long days and lots of study but he has loved every second.
Looking forward to see where this journey takes him.



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Congratulations to young soza
 
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