‘Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing’ upgrade

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Cam Walker, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. legend

    legend Dedicated Member

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    Annual park fees are in our waterbills. That is why they took away the toll booth at Wilson Prom and Buffalo - too expensive to have people collect fees. The annual park fees are for all parks administered by Parks Vic (also includes the metro parks Jells Park, Braeside, etc)
     
  2. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    ^ Then the logical and simple solution is to increase it a little bit.
    The general population are silly if they think that endless tax cuts and better infrastructure/services are compatkible, but maybe that's for cv. I don't like the user paysphilosophy, it is not conductive to an egalitarian society and is financially exclusive. That goes for resort entry fees too.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Xc fees at Falls were for use of groomed trails. Caused aggravation among BC tourers who used the roads and didn't care about grooming. Now without those fees significantly more inbound skiers are using the trails.
     
  4. snowgum

    snowgum Dedicated Member

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    This nightly camp fee for the BC business is user pays gone mad! (Thanks Tories!)

    ...show me some evidence of trail, hut & sign maintenance and I'd soften slightly but not ~$30 per night for tiny alpine tent out in the BC.
     
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  5. Boodwah

    Boodwah Dedicated Member
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    I already pay a shite load of fees. It's called tax. I am with PK - screw them, they're idiots.
     
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  6. weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member
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    I did a short walk last friday from Mt Loch to Derrick hut and back. These signs were in theloch car park.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    Will your hug fee include a heli ride back after your walk?
     
  8. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Whats with the one way bit.....
    Will Team Bears get busted for wandering around the wrong direction...

    Will PV meet the costs of head injuries sustained at Dibbins Hut with its very low door frame..lost track of no times I have clonked my head....
    The Iconic Walk may have visitors wandering around with bandaged head injuries..
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Dumb. There is no location called Falls. And what exactly is meant by 'Hotham'?

    Whoever thought that whacking the iconic label on what is a pretty ordinary walk will bring punters flocking from the Northern hemisphere as they do to Tas & NZ?

    As locals will just camp elsewhere.
     
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  10. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Team Bears have now grave concerns over this project!!!
    I would not promote this walk to overseas visitors....I feel we would be selling them short...
    there is nice walking and camping in the ANP and adjacent forest but I would hope that visitors would be given better opportunities than this so called 'Iconic Walk"
     
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  11. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well perhaps I am being too critical of the project...
    Signs can be changed and I would have expected better....cos this is our taxes at work..
    Much of area has been significantly burnt....I would have reservations in sending overseas walkers into parts that Team Bears themselves find alarming!!!

    Lets see how things go.
    But cost wise we are against camping fees and administration costs.....
    We hope overseas visitors enjoy themselves and have a memorable experience in our country.
    One of the biggest assets is the West Kiewa River....if we(Team) were tourists we would love to play in water on a hot day after tramping along..
    Expanding facilities down there around Red Robin Battery or further down near Horseyards may be of consideration.

    We hope to get down to Horseyards soon and maybe do some wiper/
    snipping as required.I have no idea if any development has been done down here as yet??
    Falls should be referred to by its correct name Falls Ck...Mt Hotham should replace Hotham..
    I agree with Ziggy on this one...
     
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  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    And perhaps get a National Parks Visitor Centre on Mt Hotham maybe near existing Diamintina Huts..
    Overseas visitors need maps,visual displays,pictures,brochures and Park Staff to talk to them outlining whats on offer......Will we ever get the stuff NSW has in Sawpit Ck.....!!!!!
    You want visitors then go offer them something ....

    Lots of glass so they can sit ponder and plan their itinery...
    Scenery is first class even though fires have ravaged so much but we are not delivering the goods.. The Razorback one of the most peopled walks and you got a worthless /untidy/unkept relic at the start....
     
    #62 Ubiquitous Steve, Dec 31, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  13. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    I'm not sure if OS visitors are the main target.

    While it is in the Park, I think that Falls and Hotham are probably the main ones pushing for the promotion of the walk. Falls
    9and probably hotham) is always looking at creating more reasons for people to stay in Falls over the :green season". Falls have already promoted the walk for a few years with a deal to drive people over to hotham to start the walk. that way they probably stay the night before and the night after at Falls.

    I assume US was joking about the one way. I certainly interpret one way to mean distance each way, not as in one way street.

    I'm not particularly opposed to what they are doing with the walk. I doubt that it is aimed at serious bushwalkers. I think it's just about encouraging people to stay at Falls (and probably Hotham) and get out there and have an achievable adventure. I can't really argue with that.

    OTOH what they are proposing with overnight fees for general walkers is :crap:
    I'm dying to see what happens in the (Gippsland) Lakes National Park. will you have to pay to stay at a jetty (under the control of Gippsland Ports)? what if you beach your boat or tie to mooring poles? what if you do one of the former but use the fireplaces and dunnies on shore at night? What if people take refuge because of threatened bad weather but have not thought to book before they left home days ago?


    ===========
    BTW I obviously have no problem with Falls and Hotham. That's pretty much what the locals say most of the time
     
  14. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    I reckon this whole gig is sponsored by one of the taxi companies in say Bright or Mt Beauty that would profit from the additional business of running people back from Hotham To Falls Creek or visa versa.
     
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  15. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    What happened to the Omeo Community Bus??
    Didn't they have one that came over and stopped at Bright then retuned later in the day.
    Taxi fare to F.Ck or to Mt.Hotham would be pretty steep..

    Be interesting to find out what NP Staff are saying in regard to this new era. So camping at Mt Ck is being charged now??
    I am still not clear when implementation is to start...Camping at Camp Ck prior to ascending Eskdale Spur????Pretty Valley anywhere around where we normally pitch a tent???
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    It'd be a miracle if one small biz had that kind of influence.

    Oh yeah, there was John Howard's brother.
     
  17. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    2014 its coming yes time to look forward and be positive.....Team Bears are doing their best to see good in all things we
    are trying!!!!Any chance of shower block at Dibbins Perhaps!!!

    Bears say we got the best camp grounds maybe we could charge fees too??
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Yeah think curra may be right.

    Have just picked up a pamphlet from the Bakery: 'Iconic Walks - Tawonga Huts Walk'.

    The only ref to origin is fallscreek.com.au

    Suggests you start by walking up Wombats Ramble.

    This is laughable. But explains the pamphlet origin.

    A cardinal sin in marketing is to over-promise / under-deliver.
     
  19. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    the other thread http://forums.ski.com.au/xf/threads/new-vic-hiking-fees.63017/ said that fees were proposed to start in March. I'm not sure who does the shuttling, but I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that they used their own vehicles and staff.

    Falls Creek Resort Mgt have promoted a shorter version as a one day walk for a few years - the bold bit in the quote. The 3 day camping option looks to have been inserted in the old article

     
  20. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    Looks
    Looks like we will all just have to go in via 'steve's camp'
     
  21. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    Why charge for use of the platforms and move people to camp away from facilities? My understanding is that the platforms are about minimising the impact, and thus the resultant rehabilitation costs, of tents in high use areas...not about comfort or a higher level of facility. People using the platforms are actually saving Parks Vic money, and people camping close to facility and using the provided toilets are reducing detrimental impact on the environment that they are supposed to be protecting. Inadvertantly pushing people to casual campsites within the vicinity of popular areas but not encouraging to use impact reducing facilities is counter productive.
     
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  22. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    You're not trying to bring logic into this are you? Economic "rationalism" trumps environmental considerations
     
  23. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Bears say Stoneytops"platforms" have better views when your having a drink after strenuous day.
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    It would nice if pressure was put on Parks to put woodheater(retro fit) to Tawonga Hut so poor fireplace function(smoked to death)
    is made to be "Iconic "too. Get volunteers of skilled background to get this project happening.What works at Westons and Ropers should be good for Tawonga too.So walkers commonly go to Tawonga Huts as an easy day walk/sleep over..give them a decent fire to warm themselves when the weather is borderline...this could not be a very difficult or time consuming project and its 15min in 4x4...
    Bears want to see this ASAP Where are all the funds for tourism going in the NE????
    [​IMG]
     
    #74 Ubiquitous Steve, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
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  25. JoeKing

    JoeKing Part of the Furniture
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    I'd charge a fine for that hideous damn umbrella.
     
  26. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Team Bears would love to put wooden deck on top of fire fighting tank couple brellas where we could sit having a latte or two we could go upmarket here....somewhere peaceful outside of authorities control at least somewhere without camping fees!!
    [​IMG]
     
  27. sjm

    sjm Active Member

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    The bus is still running, timetable here: http://www.omeobus.com.au/
     
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  28. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Thanks sjm this is useful information..this will provide overseas visitors with transport required to get to 'Iconic Walk'.
    and also maybe useful to local walkers that don't want to do a car shuffle or may be they don't have a car etc..
     
  29. Draizuh

    Draizuh Dedicated Member

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    There is a bit of this going on in NZ but has existed for years. And usually there is other options for those who chose not to be herded along like cattle with meals and such provided. The hollyford, Milford, routeburn, caples and greenstone all have private huts along the way but are still avalible to walk by the public (albiet for a small fee for track maintainence etc)
     
  30. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    Had a look at Cope Hut platforms and signage first hand yesterday when doing Wallace-Cope with 4YO son. Couple of things:
    • the general camping area around Cope Hut shows no indication of need for expensive camping platforms...area is high, dry and plenty of relatively flat tent sites. No indication of significant environmental impact from the erecting of tents over time. Putting in unecessary and unwanted 'amenity' and then putting high fee on it's use, at the exclusion of low cost/free use, is against principles that are being used to increase/review camping, and more importantly, hiking fees.
    • the 'Wallace Hut Heritage Trail' has had a lot of high cost work in regards to trail works, interprative signage, seats etc, yet as it is aimed at day walkers it will not collect any revenue!
    Took a great photo of 4YO standing on one of the new platforms baring his arse at the camera in a traditional act of protest and defiance on behalf of the next generation of bushwalkers who may not be able to afford to walk in our alpine areas.

    Another little beef...what is it with all of these new walks getting the US moniker of trail? In Australia we have generally walked tracks - eg Overland Track, Alpine Walking Track...
     
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  31. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    Another interesting observation....just looked at the Parks Vic booking site at availability of sites on Aust Day long weekend. All of the Cope Hut sites are booked on the Sat night but nothing at Dibbins either side or at Cope on any other days of the weekend. Clearly has been booked by a group who are not walking the Falls/Hotham track...has it been booked by a group of car campers as it is only a 5 min walk from the road? This defeats the purpose of the development of this site if it has. I know at similar sites on Great Ocean walk, car campers are not allowed at the bushwalking sites and are kept seperate except for shared toilet facilities. Imagine being on 2nd night of your 'wilderness experience' that you are paying $30 per night for and finding yourself camped with hoons on the next platform who have carried generators, ghetto blasters etc the 100mts from their utes parked in the carpark?
     
  32. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    This is a worry...Team Bears want to pretend this is not happening....we will just stick to our fringe campsites for some peace...Walkers should be given priority above car campers....anybody coming along AWT from ACT or Walhalla should get priority always..
    Well the gates gone and are we under new management here....
    [​IMG]
     
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  33. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    Whole thing is ridiculous
     
  34. weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member
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    I'm not keen on the word "trailhead" either.
     
  35. Time

    Time Active Member

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    hmm, i wonder how many new rescues will be generated from this "easy walking trail".
     
  36. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    I wonder how many people will push on in bad conditions because they don't want to overstay what they have paid for
     
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  37. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    well i hope Parks Vic are making it clear that an alternative campsite maybe Ryders Huts where they will not have to pay or book.
    Can signage be displayed informing poor souls that few kilometers further on is probably a better campsite anyway.

    Can we spread some of the wealth pretty please so Ryders Huts get a toilet and rainwater tank too!!!!!

    Team Bears still want to go down to Horseyards near Blairs Hut close to Diamintina Spur also to do some wipersnipping maybe to at least provide another free alternative to travellers needing a good campsite...Horse Yards is on bigger river too and is also probably better campsite than Dibbins Hut Area.It has toilet from memory and fireplaces too i think..

    Poor Parks Staff are now left to administer this nonsense of a scheme:i bet there is a lot of unhappy Parks Staff around shaking their heads!!!

    Now does the Iconic Walk have a portable toilet at Cope Saddle Hut cos this will have to follow if u promote a walk like this:we don't want people crapping near the aqueducts please!!!
     
  38. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    So if we are ganna start collecting fees for the Iconic Walk then maybe somebody better start telling them of their responsibility to walkers if serious fires occur in the area.There is one fire refuge at RedRobbin Battery only.Maybe time to construct some more or put in/clear up some helipads with good signage.We are getting fire after fire in there and nothing is being considered for walker safety...there will not always be time to helicopter people out from there......
     
  39. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Bears survey the hill on the watch for the permit police ready to scramble.....
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    I've read that Ryder's is now locked.
     
  41. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Ziggy can you clarify that with others..
    Is Ryders Hut..That is the main one open to public open to public still.
    If not maybe Parks could explain why??

    I hope you are wrong cos this will p...s some of us completely off.
     
  42. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    US, can't recall where I read it but it was in print in the last few weeks, not on the web. Of course what is printed is never wrong ;)

    I know of them is usually locked.
     
    #92 Ziggy, Jan 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  43. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Agree.

    Ironically a blogger talking about their BHP circuit last winter reported that the Cope Hut platforms weren't visible!
     
  44. hongomania

    hongomania Dedicated Member
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    how exactly will the fines be enforced? obviously we dont carry ID while hiking. are parks rangers or whoever are meant to enforce these fines seriously going to try and arrest people?
     
  45. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    We just tell them ggf.
    Happy to pay an annual vehicle parks fee of up to 150 given I already pay a levy. Per night camping not a chance.
     
  46. weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member
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    The buggers will probably fine you or throw you to the ground like the Vic train buffoons do. I had a couple of minor skirmishes with these tossers and it made me realise how nasty people can get once you give them a uniform and a bit of power, eg. Prison guards etc.
     
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  47. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Maybe put those questions to the relevant authorities.

    And share any answers with us?
     
  48. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    I have sent an email and have not heard back.
    Find the whole thing ridiculous.
    Paying for camping in the bush! What a joke. Stick your platforms up your arses.
     
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  49. weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member
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    I totally agree, and make sure the platforms are sideways!


    However, I do recall years back, having Park Officers checking my booking receipt at Sealers Cove at Wilsons Prom. We had just settled into the campsite and some NP guy comes jogging into the campsite to check that you have paid, it kinda spoils the mood!

    Has anyone been to the Prom recently, still worth a visit?
     
    #99 weerab, Jan 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
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  50. obrien

    obrien Active Member

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    Prom is definitely still worth the visit. And they still check your hike permit but more likely at Sealers & Refuge Coves over weekends and during summer. They have ranger huts at those two so they tend to be there during the busy periods.
     
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