‘Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing’ upgrade

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Cam Walker, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    Well some better news.Team Bears been into Diamintina Horse Yards Camp twice over last couple of weekends and
    did a little site upgrading.Track to dunny better,tracks to Diamintina River better and camping area better around fire/seats tables better.Big pile of fire wood left to be used.
    Dungey Track A ok couple minor obstacles to negotiate and West Kiewa ford is shallow with easy passage of vehicles.
    West Kiewa Logging road has several obstacles to negotiate but is A ok..i heard of a few flat tyres along here so watch your rubber.No charge for camping down here.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Saw C.Lovick with his horse party down there and upgrade seemed to work really well..just bit more useable space for floats turning/parking etc.Lots vehicles went ok.
     
    #101 Ubiquitous Steve, Feb 3, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Parks Vic stuff seems to me to be ambiguous re fees, having read their web pubs.

    To paraphrase ...

    The Falls to Hotham walk has two campsites: Cope and Dibbins.
    You have to pay for campsites.
    There are other campsites.
     
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  3. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture
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    thats sort of makes sense Ziggy - you can camp anywhere as per usual but if you wanna stay in our fancy upgraded sites you gotta pay

    doesnt mean i agree, but the intent it would seem to me is to make it more accessible to more people
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    That would be logical mr. But the guff could be interpreted as $30 per night anywhere on the walk.

    I dunno what biz consultant they got in to frame this marketisation but they did a shit job.
     
  5. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/p...s/falls-to-hotham-alpine-crossing-master-plan

    They are at it again. This is just wrong. We must fight this or it will be pay or push off . They are taking the Alpine N.P. away from us, we the people and developing it for wealthy glampers . Yes Us, we love that part of the world. All year round I am out there getting my sanity , adventure and nature fix. I urge everyone to read the whole thing and submit a response that says NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
     
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  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    Not sure how you conclude it will be 'pay or push off' and we will lose the park.

    The proposal envisages the same private hut arrangements as per the Overland Tk for example. Doesn't exclude public use of tracks and existing huts.

    And maybe stairs and handrails up the Diamantina Spur. That would increase public use.
     
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  7. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    Pretty sure I saw that it said no casual camping withing 500mts of the trail. That restricts waking up on Sat morning (or getting home from work Fri arvo) and deciding to go for an overnighter along Razorback to Feathertop.
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    There'd be damn few camping spots outside of 500m from the trail on the Razorback. And that'd exclude camping at Westons.

    Not doable.
     
  9. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    Good luck policing it anyway!
     
  10. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture
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    Ignore. Ignore. Ignore...
     
  11. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Come to the meeting/info sessions and tell them, P.V., The Govt. and Big business to stick it right up their luxury lodge shaped sphincters.
    4-8 pm
    Mon. 12 th Dec.
    Melb. Office of the College of Surgeons
    250-290 Spring st.
    East Melb. 3004
     
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  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    I am told from Parks Vic Bright that clearing work has or is being done on Diamintina Spur....while this is good ...Team Bears know nothing of the Iconic Walk Developments...

    we certainly don't want to see Private Enterprise muscling in and claiming they have booked the Horse Yards...which a group told us they had the authority to camp there last year...

    not sure if Parks are rerouting the dangerous lower section on Diamintina as it hits the ridge line...Team Bears have been squealing about it for several years to no avail ....if they are doing something there its about time...

    we have some more tables to erect in the West Kiewa outside ANP boundary...well just a few more at nice locations...

    they certainly don't want to give permits to camp at Diamintina Horse Yards to any group.other than horse riders. ..and they tend to share things anyway from what I have seen..so there is less conflict between parties and degradation due to the no of folk and their steeds...

    great scrutiny should be given to private groups profiting from this Iconic Walk especially when they do stuff all in return....and casual park users both in and outside the ANP boundary have a right to carry on their normal activities with out permits or harassment....:p
     
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    I think the proposal is for private huts out of sight at Tawonga Huts, somewhere along the Kiewa and at the top of Diamantina Spur.

    I've walked the Overland several times and you have to try to see the private huts there. Overall, it's a way of enabling some people to get out there who wouldn't otherwise and I have no problem with that. NPs need all the friends they can get.
     
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  14. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    don't think its appropriate to build a hut on top end of Diamintina Spur....perhaps as Team Bears have outlined another hut in the major saddle of the said spur but not on the Razorback..but another hut up there should be a public hut not a hut used by a trekking company for profit...we really don't want to turn this area into a circus for free enterprize regardless of kickbacks to Parks Service in fees/permits etc..
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    IIRC the proposal is for it not to go at the end but somewhere around the knob.
     
  16. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    don't think its appropriate up there at all.....public hut/shelter on Diamintina Spur little Saddle...low key out of sight for public use.... not overnight accommodation for private trekkers only on permits...

    private lodges only in appropriate areas possibily acceptable at Tawonga Huts and in West Kiewa(but not in Horse Yards Area)
    definitely no private lodges on Razorback or Diamintina Spur...

    It would be of greater benefit for all to construct Federation Hut No2 at the old ruin before the last leg to existing one but a public hut not a private facility...and to rebuild the Bon Accord Hut for the public before anything else should be considered..
     
  17. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    I well understand MrT's concern with this proposal....u want to be very careful before u create a complete circus in this unique/fragile and very small ridge/spur line....some things are appropriate others definitely not...

    Diamintina has always been a little hostile and difficult...but its pretty unique up on the exposed little ridge....last thing u need is over development which will render its charm gone for good..

    consideration needs to be taken before u proceed into foolhardy development....
     
  18. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage
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    If they are intent on building a hut up there I suggest folk should encourage them to give it the name
    the 'Dr Graeme Nelson' memorial hut.
     
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  19. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Addicted Member
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    well Graeme may have had views of concern in this project....but his family and friends would only know....

    if a public hut is built then yes his name would be appropriate...

    if a private hut for permit wielding trekkers is constructed then it may not be so appropriate as a memory to him...

    there is certainly a good view of Avalanche Gulley and the steep east side of Feathertop from Diamantina Ridge Line...
     
  20. weerab

    weerab Dedicated Member
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    Don't forget Tom Kneen who died a few years back when he fell the the cornice. They didn't find his body until spring.

    From MUMC club history. Can't believe it's been over 30 years.

    "1985: Death of Tom Kneen, cousin of Peter Kneen, in an avalanche on Mt. Feathertop. Tom Kneen was also involved in the construction of the hut, taking charge of the triangular windows and upstairs floor amongst general tasks, and, as very experienced bushwalker and ski tourer, had exceptional knowledge of Mt. Feathertop."
     
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  21. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage
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    isn't there a commemorative plaque for Kneen up there?
     
  22. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Inside the MUMC hut there plaques of the names of many people who have died in mountaineering accidents. Many of them were in the MUMC but perished in the Himalaya.
     
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  23. Cam Walker

    Cam Walker Active Member

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  24. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Spread the word. They are trying to ram rod it through before Xmas.It is crazy. There is no environmental impact statement in the draft and the figures about how it will make a lot of money are just exaggerated donkey droppings cooked up by yuppies in suits, who don't know where the Diamantina spur is ,let alone be able to walk it , in any season.:mad::(:cry:
     
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  25. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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  26. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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  27. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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  28. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Just looking at these photos that I took on a descent down the Diamantina spur in Jan. 2016 reminds me that the Diamantina spur is steep , wild and hardcore. It is Not for cashed up glampers at all.If they don't carry a tent at all on this leg of the proposed route and something bad happens and they can't get to their privatized luxury hut on the saddle on the top of the spur then they will all be in bother. The weather can change very quickly up there and the last section towards the Razorback is quite exposed.
     
  29. Seth

    Seth Old And Crusty
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    As if they need to worry about that. That's what they have a guide for.
     
  30. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    This proposal has been prepared by Tourism North East to fulfill the desires of two ski resorts (2 TNE board members) and one or two favored commercial operators.
    This is a National Parks (Parks Victoria) 'product', it should be named and routed to highlight the natural attributes....not commercial villages. A route starting at Harrietville and finishing at Mountain Creek (Tawonga), taking in the 2 highest peaks in Victoria (Feathertop and Bogong), providing enroute access to climb the top 10 peaks in Victoria as side trips, crossing the majority of the famed Bogong High Plains, following for the most part the Australia Alps Walking Track (think PCT etc) and called (for example) The Bogong High Plains Track sits better with the brief of providing an iconic walking track within the Victorian High Country. The vested commercial villages and interests can then promote shorter versions with differing entry/exit points to suit their own commercial needs.
    The Alpine Resorts Act excised specific resort areas from the National Parks to promote and facilitate commercial development, further commercial development outside these areas to promote the existing commercial villages is a questionable need.
     
    #130 Hully, Nov 26, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2016
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  31. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    The 'guide' may be driven by commercial money /profits rather than safety and common sense. That is what happens when money comes before safety.If they hit a white out / gale force winds/hail/electrical storm/ crapola conditions at 1500 M. and then getting to the planned hut on the Diamantina spur saddle could be risky. Turning back to the Diamatina horse yards would not fit in with the glossy brochure .Know what I mean ?.
     
  32. Seth

    Seth Old And Crusty
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    Pretty sure they would take the safest option. otherwise they'd be sued if anything went wrong.

    You're pretty hyperbolic about this. if done well in a considered manner it can only be a good thing. the money that parks vic gets from this could certainly find a home. they aren't over funded.
     
  33. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    You clearly haven't spent much time with a guide.
     
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  34. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    I had a guide Climbing Mulhacen Peak(3483M. ) in Spain and trekking to Lake Mani Mahesh (4170 M. ) in NW India.
    I don't need a guide for the Oz alps.I have a map and a compass, good gear, high level fitness and some experience.
    Nat.Parks are not for development and commercial profits.
     
  35. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    I think our parks should be accessible to all, not just selfish elitists.
     
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  36. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    P.V. won't make any money out of this scheme. They are cut to bone already in terms of funding and can hardly maintain whatever services , infrastructure and parks management they have in place already.Yes I am fired up about this and oppose it 101% but read the fine print of the scheme. It is all spin and Bollocks.
     
  37. Mister Tee on snow shoes

    Mister Tee on snow shoes Dedicated Member

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    Elite = excellent
    The opposite of Elite is mediocre. The point of a Nat. Park is to preserve bio diversity and retain undeveloped areas for people to retreat to for solace and sanity.Commercial development is selfish.Putting Money ahead of the planet is selfish.
     
  38. Seth

    Seth Old And Crusty
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    Spare us the hysteria and hyperbole.

    Parks should be for all, not just those who think they earn it through slugging away.

    Luxury walking is not new. it can be done well. parks would/should be getting a licence fee for a private operator to run this sort of walk.

    National parks need all the friends they can get. the people who have the cash to pay for these sorts of activities might just become the biggest advocates for the wider protection of alpine areas.

    I've no doubt at all that this proposal would be less damaging than all the feral animals in the park.
     
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  39. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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  40. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    Go stand on the top of Bogong, turn 360deg, and look at how many thousands of acres are and will remain undeveloped.

    It's elitist hyperbole wank. We should be encouraging as many people as possible to get out there.
     
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  41. tele-whippet

    tele-whippet beard stroker
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    In a NP we should be encouraging as many people as possible to get out there leaving as little impact as possible.
    The beauty of NPs is that they are open for all to use, not just those with enough money to gain access.
    They are a level playing field that shouldn't be degraded to the lowest common denominator.
    You're having a wank if you're too precious to forgo a few first world luxuries to enjoy a NP. :)
     
  42. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    I've got to disagree with the whole elitism argument. Its a really poor one since paying $500 per day (as per CMs article above) is the much more elite activity than only paying whatever park entry there may be to go for a walk for the day. Many more people are being excluded from the "Luxury" walking experience than are excluded from going out own their own with a tent and food. If they lack the skills there are plenty of walking clubs to join. Once again much less elite than paying $500 a day.

    Having said that I thought the Milford Track was a great experience and having used refugios overseas I'm certainly not averse to extending the Tasmanian model to the Mainland (but I don't know very much about their model so I wouldn't advocate for it).

    The real issue isn't elitism, its how much you value "primitivism" which was a founding value of the conservation movement in Australia. For me the question needs to be addressed on a landscape level. I'd oppose the idea on the Main Range for example, but not a more montane part of the Australian Alps for example (due to the limited amount of Aboriginal Activity in sub alpine and alpine areas in KNP, making those parts of the park more capable of being pre european than most parts of the landscape).
     
  43. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    That's a pretty poor argument. People aren't going into the death zone, the risks, whilst potentially significant are not difficult to manage.
     
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  44. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    I thought Viccos loved huts, maybe wack in like100 more? Its like a toll road, the only way to get them built! Come on, you will love it! Maybe get some more sleds motoring around the place, hot dog stands, you know you want it, you don't want to be like KNP, with no huts every five steps!

    :whistle:
     
  45. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Toilets man, its all about the toilets.
     
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  46. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Commercial operators already operate in KNP, some of them are my friends. They do not require additional infrastructure to help their business models.
     
  47. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Well, a hut without a toilet…...
     
  48. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    That would be elite.
     
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  49. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    [​IMG]

    Photo credit Robbie Duncan, he is doing some fantastic work.
     
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  50. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    One I've met personally is committed to a discreet presence in the wilderness and very respectful of the natural environment.
     
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