1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW REGISTRATIONS

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Final plans for 2.7 km Mt Wellington aerial tram

Discussion in 'Ben Lomond' started by Bogong, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,838
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    The final design for the Mt Wellington Cableway in Hobart was revealed today. It replaces the previous plans hybrid system of an aerial tram and a gondola and with a 2.7 km aerial tramway with a vertical gain of 920 metres and featuring a span of 2040 metres between support towers. Passengers will be transported in two 80 person, 7 x 4 metre cabins which will travel at a speedy 10 metres a second. The top station will be recessed into the mountain with a more discreet profile than the current shelter. Details of the plan on the MWCC website.

    Personally I see this as a win-win for everyone. It will more than halve traffic using the road, present a lower profile than the current visitor shelter, provide 80 permanent jobs and a major boost for tourism in all of southern Tassie. I can't see a rational reason why people would be opposed to it.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. JA2340

    JA2340 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    17,512
    Likes Received:
    4,852
    Location:
    Tamworth
    But there will be opposition, you can bet your bum on that!
     
    Bogong likes this.
  3. dogski

    dogski Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    toowoomba
    Of course there will be.It's Australia after all
     
    2ESki likes this.
  4. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,270
    Likes Received:
    1,077
    Location:
    vic

    Aussie: We'll put in a road anywhere / everywhere - almost without question but put in a lift and all hell breaks loose.
     
    currawong, JA2340 and Bogong like this.
  5. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    I've always been ambivalent about the plans to be honest. It matters little to me given the sort of access I prefer. But I do recognise the summit area as it now stands is a total dog's breakfast and I'd love to see a plan for it being the prime focus of efforts. That may or may not include cable car access. It should also include the Springs area which is a wonderful staging point for a series of really great, sheltered trails, many of which are accessible for a wide range of people and abilities.

    I think what I want most for any process is proper due diligence, transparent consultation and decision making and not letting a bunch of cowboys rock in, fail and then leave the state with a liability.
     
    JA2340 and skifree like this.
  6. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    2,327
    I think the three strongest arguments against are
    1. Weather, it obviously gets pretty wild up there, what percentage of days will it be able to operate?
    2. Is it going to be impossibly expensive to ride, enough that people are just going to skip it and drive up anyway, especially locals? Will they end up closing the road to force people to buy an $80 lift ticket?
    3. There's a difference between opposing a lift in general, and opposing a particular group's slightly shady proposal for a lift. See PK's comment
    My rock climbing friends on facebook are up in arms and whinging, I cynically suspect they really just don't want a peanut gallery watching them from up above all the time. Which to be fair, is a vibe-killer.
     
  7. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    Personally I think the weather argument is a furphy. There would be very few days where operation would be impossible I am reckoning. I run up there regularly and that aspect of the mountain offers a great deal of shelter from the prevailing winds. These setups operate in high alpine environments around the world. Mt Wellington can't pose any greater challenge surely.

    Lots of people will choose to go the low cost option up the road and to date it has been explicit that the operation of the cable car will not be contingent on restricting road access. It might provide some angles for management of "risk" though which could potentially see them being more trigger happy on the road access gates. But that is just a thought which has occurred to me on the fly and I haven't really worked it through.

    I've got to say though that the road is really awful. Or rather, there are sufficient numbers of drivers who handle it poorly to make it an awful experience having to negotiate it.
     
    Majikthise, Rabid K9, skifree and 2 others like this.
  8. Scooter

    Scooter One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    So seeing as I was there recently I have been checking the web cams with relative frequency (currently a bit of snow up there right now :D https://www.hobartcity.com.au/Community/kunanyi-Mount-Wellington/kunanyi-Mount-Wellington-webcams ) and as the road status is linked on the web cam page I have also been checking the road status and what has surprised me is just how much the road has actually been closed this winter (due to snow events).

    Been shut for what seems ages at a time so if that was the norm (not sure?) then I am all for some sort of cable car access up to the top so people can get up there and have a "play".

    Of course echoing your comments @sbm_ I would hate to see it be cost prohibitive (because If I could I would love to use it often and would want others too as well) and would love to see it affordably priced but the cynic in me says it will likely be priced to gouge people :mad:

    Reminds me a bit of the Banff Sulfer Mountain Gondola - I spent a couple of months in Banff years ago and rode it down a heap of times (was free down so I would hike up) but never paid to ride it up and just looking at its current pricing ($58 or $64 or $49 if you are a resident) I still wouldn't :eek: Seriously if you were a family of 4 that's $200 and I guess that's the issue if you get private operators involved - they want to recoup costs and them some!!

    So I'm all for it - but as long as it was affordable :thumbs:

    Did the city of Hobart or the state government ever enter into talks?
     
  9. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    As the current Mayor pointed out this morning, the council has never actually received a Development Application in over 100 years of talking about it. I don't know to what extent they need to or should consult with the State Government BEFORE a DA is actually lodged? I guess there is a lot of brinkmanship going on around the proposal at the moment.

    Ha ha! Your post Scooter reminded me of all the times I have stumped up and down the Buller road from Horse Hill because I wasn't going to pay the shuttle service to take me such a short distance. It was often rather unpleasant but I could spend the money I saved on beer so it wasn't all bad.
     
  10. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    36,530
    Likes Received:
    21,548
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Will it take MTBs?
     
  11. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    It would be mad not to I would have thought. It's such a growing segment of the tourism and leisure market. Derby, Eagles Eyrie etc are going gangbusters and helping to offset problems of regional employment at the same time.
     
    skifree likes this.
  12. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,290
    Likes Received:
    2,327
    I reckon the one-off ticket price has to be less than $30, and a local annual pass less than $200. Preferably closer to $100.
     
  13. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    36,530
    Likes Received:
    21,548
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Similar pricing to Scenic World in TombTown.
     
  14. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,838
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    I don't have any involvement with it, but I am a fan of aerial ropeways, so I've read the plan and I can reply to a few points people have made.

    Due process. It's been six years since the first version of the plan was floated and consultation began. It's been bounced back and forth between the state government, two local councils, every political party and more groups than you can point a stick at. As a result, the plans have been modified several times over six years until this final plan was revealed and it is the one that will be formally submitted for planning permission. The planning process for the much smaller Arthurs Seat gondola in Victoria took just as long, the people behind these projects know they have to address peoples concerns and modify the project accordingly if they want the thing built.

    Bikes. Bikes will be accommodated in the cabins and they will build new dedicated mountain bike tracks to separate bikes from pedestrians, as the current shared tracks are hazardous for both groups.

    Price. It will be fairly pricey. Comparing it with similar projects, the shorter Arthurs Seat gondola costs $24 return while the much longer Cairns - Kuranda gondola costs $79 return. I suspect the Hobart aerial tram will be between the two, my guess is around $40.

    Wind hold. As each car will be supported by two ropes a couple of metres apart, they won't sway like chairlifts and gondolas do. It's expected that the tram will run 99.5% of days, which translates to closure due to high winds on two days each year. They do point out that the cable car will provide access to the summit on heavy snow days when the road is closed.
     
    #14 Bogong, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  15. Scooter

    Scooter One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,385
    Likes Received:
    491
    Location:
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    Yeah I'm the same with Falls - have been there heaps (mostly staying at the top of the Village) and never even considered paying for over-snow :D
     
    cornice11 and PK Sawd like this.
  16. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    16,617
    Likes Received:
    8,103
    Location:
    melbourne
    I heard it got voted down. Runs off to check
     
  17. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    Yep, council voted down the application for a carve out of public land to make a road to a base station on the Main Fire Trail just past the end of old farm road. Just for context, that road would run through the tip at Mc Robies Gully (amusingly this is an anagram of microbes.....) but from there apparently through a habitat that is relatively rare. For some reason I can't quite figure it doesn't exactly follow the line of existing trails that go the same way. That means extra clearing of vegetation. When I first heard of the plan I thought they'd use the existing and then the footprint/impact would have been fairly minimal.

    State Government is pretty keen for it to happen but they recently got cold feet once the proponents started putting in survey pegs on the summit. I don't quite know what they are willing to do but I sense a degree of nervousness. If push ever comes to shove it will be a real hotbed issue.

    Glenorchy city council have been telling the proponents for ages they are welcome to use land to create a route from the North. It would be much longer and more expensive to build however.
     
    currawong and Bogong like this.
  18. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,838
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    My understanding was that last year the state government knew the Hobart Council would always vote against anything to do with the cable car and had it declared a "Project of state significance" (or a similar term), which allowed them to over ride council resolutions affecting the project. ???
     
  19. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    I can't recall to be honest. But when the survey pegs and tape started to appear on the Summit, Peter Gutwein declared the original approval for surveying was no longer relevant due to changes between what was submitted and approved and what was later modified. The impression I got at the time was that there was more than just procedural considerations governing Gutwein's response. The language was pretty abrupt. They were told to desist immediately.

    Actually, it could have been decidedly procedural and may have been a reminder to the proponents that while they might have the ear of government it needs to be done scrupulously above board as there is a lot of contention around the project.
     
    Bogong likes this.
  20. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
  21. Call_me_Ishmael

    Call_me_Ishmael One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,338
    Likes Received:
    1,217
    You're the guy from Big Bang Theory right?
     
  22. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    I could be but I've never watched it so can't confirm.
     
    Call_me_Ishmael likes this.
  23. Rabid K9

    Rabid K9 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,364
    Likes Received:
    3,904
    That is pure gold, especially delivered deadpan.
     
  24. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    I'm glad somebody else liked it. I've mentioned it before but people just looked nervous and sidled away from me........
     
    Rabid K9 likes this.
  25. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    16,617
    Likes Received:
    8,103
    Location:
    melbourne
    i agree. camp or huts ok but fk choppers
     
    The Plowking likes this.
  26. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    Highland Council just voted down the planning application for the "Standing camp". The Mayor made a very blunt comment that it should not have been down to the Central Highlands Council to do due diligence that the State and Federal level governments neglected (ignored more likely). Interestingly they went way beyond the basic planning regulations in their decision and noted that the helicopter intrusion in particular was not appropriate in the World Heritage area. They also expressed concern about environmental waste and water runoff management of the camp and the appalling lack of consultation with aboriginal custodians. The term "standing camp" was a crock too. But that's just me adding that last bit. I assume the developer has the right to re-lodge a revised application. Interesting to see where it goes from here. State government is really keen.
     
    Rabid K9 likes this.
  27. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    16,617
    Likes Received:
    8,103
    Location:
    melbourne
    Feds chucking big money at tassie atm. They always have (because its a negative economy) but now they seem to be going bigger. The tourism dollar from their ROI is going to push some poor decision making imo
     
  28. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    It's a bit Matrix-inspired. ScoMo seems to see us as a big battery at the moment.
     
  29. dayzoff

    dayzoff One of Us

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    988
    Location:
    Canberra
    Having just driven up to the summit a couple of weeks ago for the first time ever I found it to be a pretty hairy experience. For the record, I have skied for 35 years and driven every mountain road in Aus & NZ, so I like to think I have some knowledge in regard to driving on windy mountain roads which are often covered in snow etc.

    The amount of foreign tourists driving up and down this road in rental cars and vans with absolutely no idea what they are doing was astounding. Never seen anything like it. They drive straight up the middle of the road and will not move!! This was on a fine sunny March day, so I can only imagine how scary it would be in poor weather. Then the road is being used by hikers and cyclists as well.

    The cable car if done properly has to be a winner. Restrict road access to locals who obviously use it for many different recreational purposes. Surely there are council rangers who could police this. They locked up the northern beaches for locals only years ago and gave them all parking permits for the beach car parks and everyone else pays a small fortune to park there. Do a similar thing in Hobart but only allow locals to park on the road or at the top. A small yearly fee for a parking permit and anyone else who dares drive up there without the permit cops a massive fine. Put big nasty signs at the bottom warning of the fines or even have a tow away policy. Make sure the tourists are aware of this then heavily promote the use of the cable car. Even if was 80 bucks for a return ride tourists will happily pay it. It's a unique experience and it's not like they're coming back to do it again.

    Thredbo is 39 bucks for a one off return ride so with the comforts of being protected from the elements in a cable car, with the benefit of food options at the top, toilets, the view and access to many walking tracks, then maybe somewhere close to 80 bucks isn't far off the mark? Most cars would chew through 10 to 15 bucks of fuel in the return drive anyhow.

    I saw all the locals signs driving up opposing the cable car. If you live near or on that road why would you want to deal constantly with all that traffic and pollution when you chose to live there in the first place because of the connection to the environment!
     
    Nidecker, djam, 2ESki and 2 others like this.
  30. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,388
    Likes Received:
    3,253
    Though Team Bears had a better plan!
    $80 return....you cannot be serious with this proposal !
    The Bears Zip Line was much more cost effective.
    You need to draw on professionals in the engineering world to solve these environmental problems....
     
    Bogong likes this.
  31. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    I used to make them out of Lego and lengths of my mum's wool. They were ace!
     
  32. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,989
    Likes Received:
    8,631
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
  33. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    Will be interesting. The Mayor is an independent and ex-Green and there is a definite split between pro and anti. I believe the anti side will have the numbers. The State Government will then find some controversial way to intervene and make it happen anyway. A further shit-fight will ensue.
     
    Bogong likes this.
  34. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,838
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    It was much the same with the Cairns - Kuranda gondola proposal 25 years ago. The pro lobby cited jobs and economic prosperity, the anti lobby cited destruction of a nice strip of bushland. There was a massive fight between them with both sides getting very emotional.

    In the end the Skyway Rainforest Cableway was built and has won more eco tourism awards than you can point a stick at. It is a great success, provides lots of direct and indirect jobs and the current generation of greenies absolutely adore it.
     
  35. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    Yeah, it would be nice if it could be put to bed one way or the other. I'm pretty ambivalent about it on a few levels. I have no illusions about the dog's breakfast that describes the current access arrangements and amenities. Removing or reducing public vehicles on that road would have many benefits. But I still want to see the whole of mountain plan and design which I think is lacking. Also, having realised slowly over my years in this state how systemic has been the denial and disenfranchisement of past atrocities and of current aboriginal culture I'm now much more sensitive to the aboriginal cultural claim to the mountain. As usual it is only really given a token acknowledgement in the same breath that "but you can't stand in the way of 'progress'" is uttered. Tassie doesn't really do considered and inclusive consultation well. Mostly various lobby groups are working actively to prevent that happening. 'Tis frustrating. More broadly, we are starting to see some real growing pains with our expanding tourism sector. Slapdash operations like "She'll be right Cock Ferries" down at Bruny Island aren't helping.
     
    zar likes this.
  36. zar

    zar One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,264
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Tas
    I am mildly opposed to the Hobart cable car. Live here and grew up here and the mountain has always been the scenic "natural" backdrop to the city. The claim that it will be next to invisible when looking up is pretty ridiculous. Would probably reluctantly support it if the pinnacle road was closed or tolled; this would at least boost its necessity and environmental credentials - at the moment its hard to take those arguments too seriously. What hasn't been mentioned here is the proponent needs to build a 2.5km road through the bush up the slope of the mountain to build a base station. The decision before Council may have to wait until after the 2022 Council elections as the project doesn't have the support of a majority of Councillors ( although its always possible someone could change the position they took to the people at the Council elections last year, if they were brave enough to cop the wrath ). State government would be unable to pass Special Legislation either IMO as its governing with an unstable majority.
     
  37. zar

    zar One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,264
    Likes Received:
    69
    Location:
    Tas
    Well, we are getting enough tourists already in Hobart. Some say, too many.
     
  38. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    12,181
    Likes Received:
    7,872
    Location:
    Hobart, TAS, Australia
    https://www.themercury.com.au/busin...rcury&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial

    Interesting that the Feds have intervened here. Maybe they had to respond to the query that was sent their way. Given recent Environmental signoff from the (former) Minister's office I'd be tipping the MWCC will likely get the nod to continue if they do a halfway decent job on the assessment. I'm not certain they will be diligent enough but it may not matter. State and Fed libs would be in favour of the proposal I am guessing.

    Looking down the list of creatures potentially "theatened" by this proposal I really can't see it to be honest but I guess that's why you have independent mobs to the EIAs. Their expertise should overrule my anecdotes every time.
     
    JA2340 likes this.