News First look at the new DPS Twin Tip

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by DPS Driver, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Ok, the name might not cut it in our neck of the woods and the ski is a bit more deep snow terrain oriented but it is the first ever twin tip produced by DPS. Progression for those looking for this type of ski. It's been in planning, testing and refining for a couple of years, so it should be the goods for all the jibbers out there.
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    Any metal? Or just the good stuff?
     
  3. W0nkey D0nkey

    W0nkey D0nkey One of Us
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    I once got to hold a pair of DPS skis that were sitting on the ski rack
     
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  4. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Just the good stuff. Alchemist with a twist of lemon.
     
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  5. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local
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    Will it cost a months salary?
     
  6. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    How much do you earn?
     
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  7. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local
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    Not enough to afford these skis :(
     
  8. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yeah I know DPS are an expensive ski but they're expensive for a reason and not for fashion. You can't make that quality with the components and continue in business for any less.

    We make less on a pair of skis than the big manufacturers. A DPS ski takes three times longer to make because it's a totally different curing process with Prepreg carbon fibre, the lay up materials alone cost 60 times as much as a pair of fibreglass skis, the race bases three times the cost of most sintered bases on a top end ski, extra wide edges so you get more life. Unfortunately, it is what it is but the upside is they last a lot longer than any glass ski ever will, so when you compare total cost of ownership we come out really good.

    We also have one of the lowest if not the lowest rate of warranty returns of any manufacturer. Yeah the initial purchase price is steep but the overall value for money is solid.
     
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  9. SMSkier

    SMSkier One of Us
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    Touring kit is ok....

     
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  10. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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    I’m guessing it’s aim is to be an upmarket option to go head to head with the Bentchetler and the JJ and both are very popular skis so it seams like a great idea.
     
  11. alexmok

    alexmok Hard Yards

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    How will this go touring? Are we allowed to know any measurements? :D
     
  12. Gumbo

    Gumbo One of Us
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    I think the skis look amazing but the price comparison is a little off. Yeah the cheapest of cheap sintered base is that much cheaper than the better rece bases out there but then almost no one uses that rubbish. Even most hobbie builders use extruded bases as the cost difference is more like 20%

    Don’t doubt the prepeg initial costing is dearer due to pressures pressed at but other than the prepeg there is no real other amazing techs inthe skis.

    Biggest problem with this ski and being priced at the same point as a normal set of dps is that real park skiers are hard on there skis. I do wonder how many park rats are going to be prepared to spend big and then destroy quick..

    Also another thing did you guys have any issues with the carbon fracturing from long term rail abuse. If so how did it effect the flex of the ski long term?

    Again a brilliant looking ski.
     
  13. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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    It’s more aimed at big mountain and backcountry freestyle than park, Think more Piers solomon, Chris Bentchetler, Dane Tudor, Sage Catabriga style stuff.
    I don’t think any park rat or non Team rider would ever buy a DPS for park.
     
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  14. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yep.

    If you look at the Bentchetler construction it is almost an exact copy of our foundation construction, so this is quite a step up.
     
  15. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    It'll tour well as do all our Alchemist construction.

    As a twin tip it's more about balance points on the ski front and back, so nothing to inhibit it from touring. In fact as Whatever Really mentioned it's for backcountry big mountain jumps. spins & general tricks etc.

    Sorry, I actually don't have the specs as yet.
     
  16. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    You've got it all wrong re bases. I'm happy to help you understand what we're talking about here, if you wish. You can PM me.

    Also quite wrong about tech in DPS skis. Yeah a skis a ski and there's no computer chip that tells you how good you're skiing, however what is special is the quality of the raw materials and the way they are used. So yeah our edges, our bases and our lay-up is different, not much left barring the sidewall and the core, so quite a bit different.

    Again, I know you make your own boards so am happy to help you understand the what's, why's and wherefores if you want.
     
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  17. linked_recoveries

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    Yep. Extruded bases are the cheap product. Then I imagine there are various grades of sintered bases, all the way up to the best of the race bases.

    I can see mostly disadvantages of touring with a twin tip design. Why would you bother when there are better designs out there? Flame away.

    Sexy looking skis. Is there a particular link that shows the dps production process / factory in some detail? I'm curious to see the work that goes into it.
     
  18. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    The side cut (not that we know what this is yet, I’m just guessing) will probably limit the human powered touring capability compared to a more dedicated ski.
     
  19. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes extruded bases are generally for lower end skis and rentals, whereas Sintered bases are for higher end skis. Most production skis on the market including the top end have between 0-1% graphite, whereas DPS race bases carry 22% graphite. This is the point where a base will retain wax. When you get above that wax retention is limited. You can get up to 80% graphite but most world cup racers will be running around 60%. This means one run then into the tech for waxing. The more graphite the faster the base. Our 22% graphite race base cost three times as much as the standard sintered base.

    Some people like touring with twin tips, not a fan myself but...then again, I'm not throwing 360's off cliffs either. Horses for courses.
     
  20. linked_recoveries

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    Nor landing switch off a cornice in the back country, I guess.
     
  21. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Not on purpose but did do that this year.

    I had a year of rather spectacular wipe outs culminating in a doosey in NZ which ironically was the only one on piste and the only one I injured myself on.
     
  22. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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    Plenty of young progressive skiers into touring in NZ and most on twin tips, the biggest drama is the amount of rocker makes for a short effective edge when skinning over hard pack steep sections,
    I noticed this even on my Wailer 99’s where as guys next to me on more euro style kits with long camber could walk straight up areas I’d slip on so I now use crampons when it gets real firm and steep
     
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  23. Gumbo

    Gumbo One of Us
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    Sorry late post should have read what I wrote first. There are really only 2 base material suppliers atm isospeed and crown... each produce about half a dozen different base materials. My preference is to use isospeed nhs black base bonds well and is a really great quality material

    There are very few companies that release what base material they use seems to be everyone’s trade secret... onep do quote exactly what material they use.

    I have personally done skis with durasurfs basic extruded base (my first few presses) through to isospeed 7200 and the last few have been with isospeed nhs....

    Will admit I have not cut one of your skis up to see the quality of the core and layup but only a matter of time. To date the best cores I have seen have been the later model lines I cut up... the lines where a pair of park skis and they had thicker edges as well (they were built 2009-10)
     
  24. Gumbo

    Gumbo One of Us
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    Also sorry I also still buys skis too... my wife always says I have two fetishes... ski gear and tools. I can’t help but spend money on both.
     
  25. linked_recoveries

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    That design can make kick turns tougher also, depending on the length of the ski.
     
  26. rols

    rols Hard Yards

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    Bases retaining wax? I'm sure someone told me wax can not physically enter a base.
     
  27. linked_recoveries

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    sinter
    ˈsɪntə/
    verb
    past tense: sintered; past participle: sintered
    (with reference to a powdered material) to coalesce into a solid or porous mass by means of heating (and usually also compression) without liquefaction.

    Sintered bases are built from a compressed powder, and they remain slightly porous. Melted wax can flow into those pores to a greater or lesser extent depending on the properties of the individual base and the melting properties of the wax being used.

    Extruded bases are a cooled / solidified liquid plastic. Cheaper to make, but not as well suited to the task.
     
  28. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Oh please!

    No, wax can't absorb into a base. A base can still retain wax on the surface. So if we think about the properties of base material and the properties of graphite, it makes both scientific and common or uncommon sense, that the higher the graphite content, the harder it is for wax to stick to it. Not absorb into it but stick to it.
     
  29. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Sorry l_r melted wax cannot flow into the pores of either a sintered or extruded base. The wax particles are too large. It sits on the surface with a slight penetration to the top layer only due to surface formation. We're getting off topic here.
     
  30. linked_recoveries

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    I'm curious how dps cures the prepreg carbon used in building its Alchemist line of skis.
     
  31. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    A combination of heat and pressure.
     
  32. linked_recoveries

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    Yep. Any idea how that combination is being applied?
     
  33. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    Central heating turned way up & pile cantons of beer ontop until ceiling reached.
     
  34. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    LOL
    I think that’s the company trick!
     
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  35. piolet

    piolet Found anything yet?
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    And just sticking the skis into the snow becomes a pita, particularly if exposed
     
  36. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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    Yep my old armadas were a pain to fit skins because of this reason.
     
  37. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yep with one of these. This is one of our DPS presses in the factory in SLC.
    [​IMG]
     
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  38. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Just saw this video from one of our retailers. This provides a decent overview of construction.




    Gumbo, no need to cut up a ski now.
     
  39. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    Dammm, no beer.

    Spose USA beer would be a bit light anyhow.:whistle:

    Nice press.:thumbs:
     
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  40. Gumbo

    Gumbo One of Us
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    Yeah so from that all of your material difference comes down to the fact you guys are using prepeg carbon.

    Edge material is same same everywhere unless your tang design is different to what every one is using (doubt it because the design just works) you may be running thicker edge materials but that is nothing new... many companies have been doing it for years in there park skis. I’m assuming on the touring setups you guys wouldn’t because it would just be adding weight to the setup.

    Prepeg is amazing stuff. It adds consistency to build of anything. You know exactly how much resin is going in each set of skis and that it is dispersed evenly across the whole layer. I’m surprised you guys are still using a normal skipress. I suppose you can get massive pressure out of them. When you do the math it’s actually quite scary the pressure being distributed across a press(if they fail they are basically a giant bomb). All the magic is in your cassette design I’d love to see that but understand that is probably a massive trade secret...

    Man don’t get me wrong you guys are leaders with the composite tech. I’m surprised non of the bigger companies have stolen your ideas yet and giving it some wank name...

    I still believe core is more important to anything else. Especially consistency in core measurements.I actually cut up a pair of rossies a while back and they had real bad grain inconsistency in the core not all one piece but the stringers they laminated together a couple of them I would have scrapped being scared that they would give an inconsistent feel to flex. I think personally that is what sets you guys and the other boutique manufacturers apart from the big guys you can have a much more stringent quality control over your materials...

    I’ll still cut a set up eventually, don’t stres though mate they will be well used before that ever happens.

    Sorry mate I’ve highjacked your thread
     
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  41. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    All good!

    There are certain components that will remain the same in a ski. They're not rocket ships.

    Yes Prepreg is our big differentiator. While that doesn't seem overly special, it's what we do with the prepreg that is. Peter Turner our chief engineer and part owner of DPS is also a composites engineer. He worked for Dow Chemicals for many years before moving into the ski world. Pete's most famous for taking Shane McConkey's napkin drawing and turning it into a skiable ski, The Spatula, when we was working with Volant. Prepreg carbon fibre in it's standard form is quite brittle. In the beginning we broke a lot of skis before we worked out how and what to add to the mix to make it work without breaking. This was the start of our original Pure construction skis. Now with Alchemist we've been able to take it to the next level and vibration tune the prepreg lay-up. The Alchemist lay-up is way damper than Pure with far less bio feedback into the boot while still retaining all of the strength and rebound of carbon fibre.

    Don't worry all of the big manufacturers have tried to copy our tech but they can't crack the code. Seven years ago I was talking with a sponsored Volkl skier in NZ. He asked how we did it. Volkl had been getting him over to Europe for the previous 4 years testing their "pure" prepreg carbon fibre skis and they just kept breaking. The next year they came out with the Vwerks and sold it as a prepreg carbon fibre ski, which is partially correct. What they did was one layer prepreg carbon fibre and one layer of fibreglass, to stop them breaking. Purely from a construction viewpoint that ski was more closely related to our Foundation construction than our Pure ski because it was essentially a fibreglass ski with a lay-up of prepreg carbon fibre. Admittedly it was a full lay-up and not just a stringer but you get the drift. They also had a lot of warranty issues with that ski.

    Most other manufacturers were also trying at the same time but couldn't crack the code. Over the next few years most had a Prepreg carbon fibre ski and all were the same one layer carbon fibre, one layer fibreglass. Yeah it made them lighter and stiffer but....

    That's just the lay-up, we've covered the bases and edges and you've hit on a super important piece with the cores. there are cores and there are cores, ie. you can buy a Great Wall or you can buy a Range Rover. Different manufacturers and then break it down to different materials. Then break it down to different combinations within the one core or how the laminates are oriented. Then go the next step to how they are machined to deliver the flex pattern you're looking for, very important.

    So yeah we use prepreg, so what but it's much much more than just that. The more you get into making your own skis the more you'll learn and understand what I'm talking about. Here's a tip re flex patterns, think of your core as a bell curve and consider where in that curve you want to instill certain characteristics within the ski.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  42. linked_recoveries

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    I can vouch for that. To date I've typically preferred the feel of dps' Hybrid demo skis. After skiing the new Alchemist layup this year I'd have to ski an Alchemist and Foundation model back-to-back to see if that's still the case.

    Some years back one of the lodges in Thredbo had a pair of Goode carbon touring skis in the rack that was snapped across just behind the splay of the tip. The following year it was still there. Getting carbon to flex with strength and without being brittle is a good trick. I understand prepreg helps with this as excess epoxy will increase the brittleness as well as adding weight.

    Nice press. That applies all sorts of pressure, but curing prepreg carbon also requires heat. Are we allowed to know that process?

    And I still like the beer stack visual ...

    Thanks
     
  43. Gumbo

    Gumbo One of Us
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    You can see the heat blankets in there... wonder what kw rating they are... mine are 2.2kw each blanket and heat to >100deg quite quickly. The thing I'd love to see is the 3D casset. I would be assuming they are milled Alu.
     
  44. linked_recoveries

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    Ah! I did wonder about all the black electrical cordage.

    So, a couple of hours (or so) at 100*C would do the trick, no? Is there a ramp up in temperature required during pressing, or a ramp down following the pressing?
     
  45. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Come on this is proprietary stuff. It's in the press, has to happen at the same time.
     
  46. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    That's it for factory images. This stuffs not the secret sauce, so no biggy there.
     
  47. Whatever really

    Whatever really Hard Yards

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    I know In pre preg bicycle stuff the ramp up and ramp down temps along with the vacuum/press is where the quality comes into its own.
    If any one is looking into adding carbon to their own ski manufacturing look up Raoul Luescher in Alphington, he does a lot of carbon repair Les and I believe worked with Boeing on the Dreamliner.
     
  48. The Fallen

    The Fallen One of Us
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    I just checked your website and have signed up for the newsletter but I just wanted to see if you have any stores in the Sydney or Central Coast area where I can check out your skis in person or is it all online? As I'm due for an upgrade in the new year. Cheers
     
  49. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes TF,
    In Sydney, you can fondle our merch at:
    • Snowbound in Chatswood
    • Alpsport in Ryde
     
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  50. rols

    rols Hard Yards

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    Not DPS but interesting none the less, check out how C6skiing cure their prepreg skis.
    No idea how they ski or what their durability is like? I'd be interested in how the end grain balsa performs as a core material. Bcomp also use balsa in cores but with multi axial grain orientation in vertical laminates with the addition of vertical flax laminates. There are a lot of highly regarded skis using the Bcomp cores, maybe even the DPS tour skis?