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Advice needed First time I've worked on pre-season fitness

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by sly_karma, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hard pass!
     
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  2. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm finding keto quite easy to stay with. Dont have much of a sweet tooth so skipping the chocolate, desserts, biscuits etc isnt a big deal. Bread and pasta are what I had to deal with, wasn't excessive on those either, but slow reduction in activity and mild overeating added up to 2-3 kg a year weight gain. Keto quickly sloughs off weight in the first month and after that the losses are more modest. It feels like a way of life now, 2000 calories a day isnt draconian, and the fats make it satisfying. You go longer without food and don't miss it. Feels like I'm stable enough now to address the exercise component. Before, I suffered from low sugar episodes quite easily. In theory now I should be a lot less susceptible to this, but I'm about to find out for real.
     
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  3. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Good luck @sly_karma
    I’m sure we are talking the 1%ers here with you! Just a minor tweak to bring you back to your polished best. Great thing to do!

    I am effectively keto in between the “party times” - last long weekend for example, I just did mostly what the group did, ocassionally ordering a less starchy/more keto like option, drinking vodka sodas rather than champagne more often than not. But home now and the strictness of @JM72 begans again NOW.

    And I train.
    All for the snowboarding.
    A combo of HIIT, cardio and weight training with a few task specific things thrown in.

    I’m trying to build explosive power and reduce fear by exposure - so box jumps and sideways high knee jumps through a ladder on the ground, or a balance obstacle course with bosu balls and wobble boards, etc

    Also building upper body and arm strength so rope climbs and general weight training for those muscles.

    The difference between those who train and those who don’t this past trip was glaringly obvious. He who looked the fittest had 2 days out of 5 off and came home on pain medication for a stuffed neck. As we get older the fitness focus keeps us less injured and more easily able to bounce back from injury in top of generally fitter to enjoy more of life.
     
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  4. Neddy

    Neddy Hard Yards

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    So true.
    In late 40s and now need to pretty much do some leg work every day, all year round to keep the knees from flaring up. It's now a routine to do around 10min leg and core exercises first thing each morning, with a few proper training sessions (runs/circuits) through the week. Since following this strictly, I haven't had an injury and the effort to get fitter for each season isn't so bad.
     
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  5. JM72

    JM72 One of Us

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  6. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m not understanding why there are oages published for day 2 onwards

    Wouldnt you have committed suicide before the end of day 1?
     
    #56 gareth_oau, Aug 20, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  7. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Just TTFU. 56? Pah!
     
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  8. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Very similar to what I end up having to eat to drop any weight. (Cheers insulin resistance :thumbs:) - however why the sugar cube? That adds zero value, same with the OJ. A WHOLE orange would be better than a glass of juice.

    I have found if I can keep my fasting blood sugar low with mad exercise then I can increase the caloric intake and still burn - change 100g of lean chicken for 150g yummy skin on salmon for example. More quantity, more nutrients, more satisfying and more yum.

    LOL
    Can feel like that some days, but struggling with weight issues is way more depressing than staring down a celery stick.
     
  9. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah wtf is with that diet?
    Bizarre
     
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  10. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator

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    Vertikal is still going - at least judging by their posts on fb. Their pricing puts it out of range for me, though they do have a special deal on most Fridays that seems ok that I should try out at some point.
     
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  11. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The personal trainer I found was older than I was, meaning over 55 when we started working together. What I found useful was having a weekly or bi-weekly session pre-scheduled for a month. That usually meant I'd exercise on my own in between sessions. The trainer didn't have ski experience (I don't live anywhere close to ski country) but likes researching and learning new stuff. Didn't take long to figure out what exercises were helpful. We didn't repeat stuff much at all since I used the sessions as a way to learn exercises with good form.

    It's been a good partnership. Has similarities to how I work with favorite ski instructors who work at destination resorts I don't get to every season.
     
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  12. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Ok yeah I’m also keen to try it but agree it’s pricey, I’ve also get a 2for1 deal through the Entertainment Book so that might make more affordable.
     
  13. kylep

    kylep One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And you can pop next door to Capital Brewing and have a Brod burger after!
     
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  14. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes that was part of an overall plan, could even be an idea for a Canberra forum get together!
     
  15. chrisj

    chrisj One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, callow youths worrying about their fitness.
     
  16. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Just live a healthy life and move every day. Eat & drink what you want but all things in moderation.

    As soon as you label it a diet or doing exercise it becomes a chore.
     
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  17. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Somewhere along the line I got too much of a good thing. I became dangerously good at cooking and my wine industry connections brought so many good bottles my way. For my mind set, doing something moderately structured like keto is appealing. Feels like I'm taking action on weight but without starving myself. Minimizing carbs and eating lots of fats is way easier than just cutting almost all calories. The disappearing tummy makes me more determined to keep going with part B of the plan.

    I reached out to a local based triathlon trainer I've known for years, but he's used to working with athletes and prepping for competition rather than blokes trying to come back after years of neglect. That was more a courtesy call than anything. He did give me two other trainer contacts to try though.
     
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  18. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I had different reasons for starting to think about my eating habits a couple years ago. Led to researching intermittent fasting. You'll find a few entries in my fitness blog about Dr. Fung and Dr. Moseley. I've been doing variations for about a year. Way simpler to just think about when I'm eating, or not, than what I'm eating. Never had a weight issue of more than a few pounds but like the other health benefits.

    Discovered earlier this year a thread that was directly related to articles I found from Australia:
    https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/5-2-diet.75831/page-6#post-3786394
     
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  19. Sbooker

    Sbooker One of Us

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    Being a more mature gent I would not push to hard with endurance style cardio. It could create stress injuries and cause muscle loss (and muscle mass is extremely important).
    Instead HIIT, weight training and infrequent short term steady state cardio (along with plenty of walking/hiking) is likely to be a benefit to you.
     
  20. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I don't know @sly_karma but based on comments I've read about his skiing, I think that flexibility, core strength, working on improving balance, and getting back leg strength should be higher priority than cardio. What I've learned from my instructors is that good skiing is about efficiency and fitness, not strength. That was especially emphasized by the instructor who taught clinics for skiers over 50. I've seen improved efficiency in action. My almost-70 ski buddy with a wonky knee (no meniscus) has been working with instructors in recent years after not taking a lesson since high school. He's skiing much harder terrain for longer hours than 10 years ago when I first started skiing with him at Alta. In high school he spent weekends lapping steep bump runs on Bell Mt at Aspen.

    I spend far more effort trying to remember to do 1-leg balance exercises (1-2 min anywhere, anytime) or planks or wall-sits on a regular basis than weight training. Only reason I started working on cardio is that I've become a strong enough advanced skier to be interested in hiking for turns at places like Alta, Taos, or Snowmass when I get lucky and catch a powder storm. I'm a spoiled resort skier with no interest in backcountry skiing.

    Agree that HIIT is well worthwhile. The classic 7-min HIIT workout is great when I'm traveling since it can be done in any motel room. Also includes planks and other exercises that use bodyweight, so helps with core strength too.
     
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  21. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Another vote for anywhere, anytime leg and knee balance exercises
    Standing in any queue, on buses or trains even when cooking.. Lift one foot slightly off the floor, bend the other knee and rise onto the ball of your foot, then straighten and repeat. Bend the knee as much as you feel comfortable with and surroundings allow. Use your core to maintain balance.
    When possible, raise the lifted leg and straighten alternating out in front of you and to the side.
    For a real challenge, do the exercise on a balance ball.
    Another one is to stand on one leg and close your eyes
    Remember to always use yor core to maintain balance leaving your upper body as still as possible. (Just like skiing)
    So much wortwhile exercise can be done when we're just standing around or watching tv that doesn' t require dedicated time.
     
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  22. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Seriously? how is this even possible?
     
  23. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    When your mind tells your body I am going to do this, good things happen if you persevere.
    I started on the balance ball just standing rocking side to side, then squats, one leg squats, then toe rises.
    Lots of over balancing but I just think of the joy of an accelerating carve turn and try again.
    Improving my strength in the ankles, gluts and core has improved my skiing and enjoyment and helps me to bounce better.:)
     
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  24. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Efficiency in technique is huge. I've been able to fake fitness for years now that I think about it, by skiing faster than everyone else and thereby getting to the rest points sooner. Faster skiing comes from carving all turns on groomers and using terrain and turn shape to control speed with minimal deployment of muscles. Skilled skiers use less muscle for the same or better outcomes than their less experienced friends. But nonetheless it's time for me to make some changes, can't fake it any more. Posts about core strength have been noted. That is a much neglected area. Will be interesting to see if improved muscle tone will help get rid of the flabbiness in the midsection. I've lost 4"/10 cm of waist size already but the skin hasn't shrunk up to accommodate that yet.
     
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  25. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    On the first day of knee PT (about a month after injury), I was introduced to a BOSU. Bought one for home use soon afterwards. Just standing on it in front of the TV when we watch a movie at home is helpful. Apparently invented to be a safer alternative to trying to balance on a true round ball.

    Audio is terrible but this was one of the first exercise videos I found for ski conditioning while doing knee PT
     
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  26. kylep

    kylep One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bosu ball comes widely recommended. I think LMB also does a lot on one. There are also some smaller versions, and some that are more like a spongy disc shape. Often physios will tell you to use a cushion or pillow as a start point if you don't have a dedicated item.
     
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  27. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Another short video. Can you tell I'm a visual learner? :)

     
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  28. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    A little bit more visual motivation
    Worth viewing her other videos - I try to do at least 2 different sessions per day (1 with weights)
     
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  29. MarzNC

    MarzNC One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    :)
    I recognize the premise behind most of these exercises. But even the ones I've done, I don't do at this level. There's a reason I felt the need to collect together 3-4 min videos for myself and other Over 50 ski nuts interested in ski conditioning. I'm in very good shape for over 60, but not trying to get back the body I had as a young adult playing active sports like tennis or soccer (football) or table tennis on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

    Balance, flexibility, core strength are what I focus on all year long. Glutes get attention too but mostly during pre-season. Hamstrings get attention all year long for knee support. Mostly the PT exercises I was doing daily at home for a few months, which take very little time. Adductors, abductors, and hip flexibility are a focus before the 2019-20 U.S. ski season coming up. YMMV
     
  30. bengarden

    bengarden Addicted

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    I'm going to wait for the "but its a cult" posts to start but seriously - Crossfit. Its your friend. Of course, choosing a good box that has excellent coaches that focus on form and safety over recklessness is important. It incorporates strength work to build muscle (which is naturally disappearing with age) with Metabolic Conditioning workouts that give you explosive power as well as endurance. It also works your core like nothing else. Since I started about age 38 (I'm 42) I am now fitter and twice as strong as I ever was in my mid 20s. I have noticed my skiing endurance/leg power go through the roof. Also, adding on considerable quad/glute/hamstring size is great for injury prevention of the knee. I used to actually get knee pain after a day or two skiing on a holiday but that's completely gone these days. Also really grateful for the fitness when using poles to get around flatter areas of a resort or hiking to untouched out of bounds stuff. I just couldn't imagine only doing a bit of pre season "Get fit in 2 months" instead of year round work when skiing is such a physically demanding sport on an older body.
     
  31. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This. And you can also ride snow for longer.
     
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  32. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, the OJ & sugar do nothing good.
    Always choose the whole food option. If you want something sweet, eat an apple... GI is about 35, and it fills you up.
     
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  33. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Efficiency..... This is absolutely true. Really, everyone should make sure they get lessons in their 20s, 30s & 40s, to the point where they are able to ski efficiently. Then need to work on efficiency, combined with muscle building/retention. Core is key.
     
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  34. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Balance. I travel on the trains in Japan often. If I'm standing, I don't hold onto hand straps or poles.... this is great for balance.
     
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  35. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I don't know anything about the cult issue but It's my understanding that crossfit evolved from military style physical training. We just called them circuits back in the day but very, very effective at getting an individuals fitness and strength ramped up quickly.
     
  36. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I spent a fair bit of time working with our fittest looking friend on the few days he did snowboard for exactly this reason. No efficiency, he was working 10 times harder than the rest of us because his technique was just to muscle the board down the hill. He really noticed the difference in how exhausted he was before and after work on technique.

    @sly_karma you’re not the only skier to use the speed to the rest/wait stop as a method of overcoming fitness shortcomings. I’ve got a few mates who do the same and it’s only become apparent to me that they’re doing this when it’s just the two of us and no one is stopping. All of a sudden the “you don’t need to wait for me” is answered with “I’m not!”

    Great at that high intensity cardio stuff but some of the lifting techniques border on reckless IMHO - especially if you’re new to this kind of thing.
     
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  37. bengarden

    bengarden Addicted

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    Yep, there is the possibility of that ( and some places definitely have that "bro culture" ) but it all depends on where you do Crossfit. Our coaches are really strict about technique before increasing weight and also do lots of strict strength work before adding in high volume exercises. The thing is, all workouts are scaleable to lighter weights/substituted movements which is what you should be doing to work on form before advancing. As an analogy, in skiing/boarding you don't just throw on some advanced skis and catch the first lift you see up a black run on your first day on snow. Thats a recipe for disaster and injury as well. Our box actually has quite a lot of Masters members and less of the young guns so its a very supportive and encouraging place to be.......
     
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  38. bengarden

    bengarden Addicted

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    There's elements of military style training for sure ( rope climbs,Burpees,Sand bag carries) , but also mixed in with Gymnastics and Olympic Lifting ( ie Cleans/Snatches ). It kicks your ass thats for sure cause its always different every day. As an example today is an Olympic Bar complex ( Cleans,Jerks,Snatches ) followed by 3 800m runs with 3 minutes recovery in between each run. Other days it might be a 30 minute workout non stop. The time domains constantly vary and work on different energy systems ie short and explosive or more endurance based.
     
  39. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm on a salmon fishing charter every summer. Exhausted at the end of each day just from the constant weight shifting to keep balance in chop and swell.
     
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  40. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    3 months mark yesterday. Exactly half of my 50 lb weight loss goal achieved! My first session with the trainer is set for tomorrow, another three months allocated to that so I'm ready for opening of lifts in early Dec. I feel like I have the diet well understood at this stage so it's time to add exercise as planned.

    My reading tells me weight loss in keto tapers off after initial rapid loss of water weight, so with that plus some increases in muscle mass from gym work, I suspect weight target will be reached at about the eight month mark. That will represent the loss of 20% of my starting body mass, sounds daunting but over eight months doesn't seem unhealthy. Saw my doc by coincidence yesterday up at Apex and he noted my weight loss immediately and was of course delighted. I outlined my plans and he thinks they're sensible.
     
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  41. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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  42. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Well done. What are your thoughts re: diet? Will you stay on Keto whilst you are doing weights? I can confirm that us mid 50s blokes can still gain muscle mass but I have done so with a protein rich diet. 20-30 grams of protein every few hours, 5 times a day in conjunction with resistance training. Body can’t process any more than that. I have concerns that Keto doesn’t provide enough protein for building good mass. Cheers
     
  43. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not sure that it is as simple as that.

    I’m a gainer. 50, and regardless of diet if I lift the heavy weights I build muscle. My sons are the same. Adding additional protein didn’t improve their results at all it was just extra calories to deal with.

    However a few of their mates would up their protein consumption to insane levels in desperate attempts to see results from their weight sessions - same sessions as my son (they were a squad with mandatory sessions) and while they were fit and strong the muscle bulk never happened. Still look like a string bean.

    Keto includes plenty of protein, and often needs to be dialled back to see weight loss. If adding a gym session in makes you hungry or flat then add a hard boiled egg and an apple after your training. Easy fixed.
     
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  44. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I want to build muscle endurance rather than gains in mass and power. I realise that some gain in muscle mass will be a byproduct of my quest for improved ski fitness. We will see, I certainly want to stay in ketosis but if things go awry once exercise begins, then I'll review. As far back as 15 years ago I noticed a tendency to go low on blood sugar under heavy exercise so I'll be interested to see how things go now that I'm fat-adapted. Energy is coming from a different source now so I'm hoping low glucose is a thing of the past for me.

    At any rate I'll be starting off very gently due to such a long time away from the gym. Injury prevention comes before all other goals. Happy to do this one slowly as I have a long game approach. Choices we make in our 50s have a major influence on health outcomes in our 60s, 70s and beyond.
     
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  45. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've been gaining muscle in the last 3 years, and I'm older than you are. No extra protein supplements. High intensity, high repetitions and normal meat protein is enough.
    Building muscle should the be lean strong muscle that's useful for what you want to do, not muscle bulk for muscle bulk's sake.

    Make sure you modify your diet when you're skiing. You don't want the keto diet when you ski.
     
  46. sastrugi

    sastrugi At the centre of it all Ski Pass: Gold

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    Regular Pilates and HIIT is a great combo for ski fitness. And life fitness. A friend in Sydney had to take up regular reformer Pilates for an injury and was blown away at how fit it made him for skiing. HIIT in combination works big muscle groups and covers cardio, core, squats lunges etc. Needs to be a regular routine for anything to work though. Well done Sly :)
     
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  47. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Assuming you have a normal metabolism that is.

    I followed the guidance of my guides on Kilimanjaro that I could not be keto and summit that hill. I battled my health post climb as a result, yes I summited but if I did it again I’d do it keto.

    I find I ride better all day in Niseko when I’m keto rather than running on carbs because my body doesn’t do well on carbs. I’m an anomaly. I’ve done a lot of both - having friends influence your eating means staying keto is hard. But my performance when keto was so far ahead it’s not funny, as was my recovery. I do increase my keto caloric intake though.
     
  48. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    All the best on your journey. No one size fits all as we are all different. I’m tall and naturally lean. I don’t gain easily and have predominately been an endurance trainer over the decades. Have enjoyed adding weights to my training and the resultant benefits. Regarding protein intake, I wasn’t actually suggesting supplements. My size has me on around 100grams of protein required for a day. I get this primarily via lean meats and googies.
     
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  49. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, you're not running on carbs that you're eating directly, you're running on glycogen in your muscles. As long as you've stored muscle glycogen you'll be ok until your stores of muscle glycogen are getting low. Then, you can either replenish your glycogen by using insulin (a pancreas hormone) to store blood glucose from carbs, or you need to use glucagon (a pancreas hormone) to convert fat stores or glycogen in the liver to blood glucose, that is then stored in the muscles as glycogen.
    The second is a longer process, so for most people, they will fatigue more quickly if they're on a Keto diet. So I suspect that most people on Keto will only ski/snowboard until about 2pm.

    When eating carbs to fuel your muscles, high GI will only be good if you ride snow immediately afterwards. It's better to eat a little high GI and plenty lower GI foods to continuously store glycogen in your muscles while you ski/snowboard.
    I tend to load up on a lot of lower GI foods at breakfast when skiing (since I've already replenished my the previous evening), then have some higher GI at lunchtime to boost muscle glycogen quickly after lunch.
     
  50. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes.
    Except in faulty LMB the storage of glycogen into the muscles doesn’t happen well. And I store better (probably not better than you on carbs but better than me on carbs) on protein.
    Bizarre but tested and true.
     
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