Future for Baw Baw

[Jellybeans]

What is the future for Mt Baw Baw? I have heard rumours of a summit chair, more platters, more terrain but I have heard no facts. Any facts? If any one knows about the plan for this mountain, I would be interested. Also anything about snowmaking at Baw Baw or opening up the summit to downhill skiing.
Thanks everyone

 

[Oldie]

What is the future for Mt Baw Baw? I have heard rumours of a summit chair, more platters, more terrain but I have heard no facts. Any facts? If any one knows about the plan for this mountain, I would be interested. Also anything about snowmaking at Baw Baw or opening up the summit to downhill skiing.
Thanks everyone

Hi Jellybeans. I'm not sure weather you have actually visited Baw Baw since your questions don't seem to make sense. In the thirty something years I've been skiing at Baw Baw, there has always been downhill skiing on Summit, lifted by a T bar. Also, there is fairly extensive snow making and has been for quite a number of years. In fact this year, I've noticed they seem to have a number of new fan guns in addition to the existing ones scattered around the various runs.

In regard to future plans, there have been some proposals thrown about in recent years, but I don't think there is anything definite yet.

 

[Jellybeans]

Thanks Oldie for the info

 

[Sandy]

Hmmm...... interesting. I haven't been to Baw Baw for a long, long, long time, but nothing much seems to have changed (lifts wise) apart from the removal of the double chair.

 

[snowgum]

Hi Oldie, it's good to know that there's some more guns scattered around the field. My biggest beef with Bb snowmaking is that it mostly covers just the lower sections and flat areas like bottom of the summit Tbar - yes Tank Hill is an exception! I think Bawbs might need more power to pump water higher up runs but I'm not a techie so who really can tell.

Some decent summer grooming to remove lines of rocks in the middle of some runs would do wonders for ski ability - again I'm not really sure if there's serious interest in doing this or whether it's environmental of both?

My two cents: Bawbs should get its snow reliability improved AMAP, then worry about upgraded / new lifts to cope with the 'influx' of customers. also their Mtn entry seems to have 1-2 person families in sedans and SUVs subsidising mini-van groups. at least that's how it feels.

Bottom line: I don't mind $50 per day so much for a major resort like Hotham that has a serious length of road and several car parks to plough. I'm less keen on $50 for Baw Baw when I only want to do 5-10 kms of XC (often on ungroomed trails and sharing with dog sleds and walkers without snow-shoes!)
A great little mountain resort that really needs to think about how to manage their main product - snow!

 

[Oldie]

I decided to bump this thread as it's more appropriate. In the trips/reports thread there was mention made of a government investigation about the future of Baw Baw. I went to the website and "had my say". I was under the impression that an interim decision would be announced in late September (I may be wrong on that.) Some of the options put forward were not good, especially the last one which was to effectively close the place down for skiing, removing lifts etc. So, as I've heard nothing, I'm wondering if anyone else has heard. Teckel, I know that you were on the discussion group, as LM is also under review. Have you heard anything? Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks, Oldie.

 

[Jellybeans]

I decided to bump this thread as it's more appropriate. In the trips/reports thread there was mention made of a government investigation about the future of Baw Baw. I went to the website and "had my say". I was under the impression that an interim decision would be announced in late September (I may be wrong on that.) Some of the options put forward were not good, especially the last one which was to effectively close the place down for skiing, removing lifts etc. So, as I've heard nothing, I'm wondering if anyone else has heard. Teckel, I know that you were on the discussion group, as LM is also under review. Have you heard anything? Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks, Oldie.

http://haveyoursay.delwp.vic.gov.au/mt-baw-baw-2030/documents/40790/download
All the review did was produce the 'options report' I think

 

[Serenity]

As of Jan 1 2017, here is the 'new' management board. So far in the local paper 3 management jobs have been advertised.
http://www.mountbawbaw.com.au/management

 

[Jellybeans]

Essentially Lake Mountain and Baw Baw RMBs are merged.

 

[weerab]

Interesting! Currently Baw Baw has free entry for over 65's, LM is still close to $50. I can see Baw Baw starting to charge seniors. Won't matter, their best snow seems to be after the season closes!

 

[Mufts]

Essentially Lake Mountain and Baw Baw RMBs are merged.

It's all here: http://www.southernalpine.vic.gov.au/

 

[Serenity]

Not much to see, usual spin for 'priorities and objectives'. Still waiting on final report from government re what 'option/s' to go ahead with and how much funding will be on the table, although the consolidation of both boards would seem to indicate business as usual, at least in the short term.

 

[Oldie]

Interesting! Currently Baw Baw has free entry for over 65's, LM is still close to $50. I can see Baw Baw starting to charge seniors. Won't matter, their best snow seems to be after the season closes!

That may be fine for an XC-er but for an old downhill-er on a part pension, (which, indecently has been reduced as of 1/1/17) like me, it will be a bit of a blow if I have to start paying to get in again!

 

[weerab]

no I am not just an XCier, I mix it up with a bit of downhilling too. Last season at Falls, I was buying a lift ticket every other day, probably didn't get my money's worth but not to worry! BTW, I Have no pension as the wife is still working part time so they won't give me a bloody penny!

 

[Serenity]

Another review, I'm getting sick of them! Have a look here, https://engage.vic.gov.au/alpine-resort-futures/governance

 

[teckel]

If it prevents the self-serving/corrupt culture seen 3 yrs or so ago at Baw Baw, it's worth it.

 

[chriscross]

Surely you can't be referring to nepotism or self- aggrandisement? If a review can deal with such matters, it's worth it.

 

[snowgum]

Plans and strategies are great but I'd like to see some action and some funding - especially at at Baw Baw.

Fund some some energy upgrades and the rest (upgrades to snowmaking and some lifts) might just be possible?

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

U need to call on Brett and his side kick Geoff erhaps a big restaurant on top of Baw Baw that rotates...the big end of town could turn this into a theme park to pull the crowds in from those northern resorts...never mind the bad press their Iconic Walk has generated....what u need is big business commercial operators ready to exploit the area and generate fast buckserhaps they could doze a runway for light aircraft over the back of Mt Baw Baw so the leaders of business can come by light jet planes..
If their plans come to nothing in the West Kiewa I am sure that they could be useful down there many of us would be more than relieved should they take a business look down your way....

 

[gpatech]

Baw Baw needs to be wotif'd. The snow is sporadic and they need to get over having a "season". If they could open at very short notice, whenever there was good snow, then it would be a real attraction and people would watch for it and jump on it. The reality now is that dumps come, usually out of season, and they turn the cameras off and hope no-one notices.

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

It's a very pretty and easy walk from Baw Baw Village to St Gwinear Car Park and possibly along the other axis Mushroom Rocks to Mt Whitelaw over Mt St Phillack.....I would be trying to get more walkers and Mt Bikers down there to drive more wealth into the local economy in the non snow season.

 

[snowgum]

Baw Baw needs to be wotif'd. The snow is sporadic and they need to get over having a "season". If they could open at very short notice, whenever there was good snow, then it would be a real attraction and people would watch for it and jump on it. The reality now is that dumps come, usually out of season, and they turn the cameras off and hope no-one notices.

It's ironic that the resort with lowest functionality of its snow cams (especially out of season) is Baw Baw, when along with Mt Field it's probably the most likely place for a summer snow dump.

Now where is that information manager when you need them?

 

[Baw Baw Bear]

Looking at the new pricing and lease structure, it wont matter close the road, Baw Baw village will be a ghost town other than expert board members on a large salary and don't forget the consultants, We have been promised and fed shit for 3 yrs now, all we get is sorry we understand your difficulties,but you must pay more. 50yrs of non profit making ends meet improving our club on a shoe string promoting our club and the mountain for future families to be able to afford the experience of snow , boarding and skiing is coming to an end..

We are reducing our beds just to cope with the constant price hikes . Sadly this is the reality, if a modest double storey house in Melbourne was charged 24k in rates per annum it would be a outrage. But here we are another year no lease still pending 2 yrs now , just keep paying oh but if you inject 500k its guaranteed . Lease will be approved they say ???
Sorry rant over , I say this with a very heavy heart and proud of what all private clubs and their members have achieved on the mountain. We have always loved Baw Baw and it history and community spirit. Hopefully we can continue our heritage and make it accessible for our families and guests to experience Baw Baw for another 50 yrs to come. Thank You in advance

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Good luck...sounds financially difficult.Yep Baw Baw is a pretty place......

 

[Serenity]

Winter is becoming less and less reliable, whereas summer is now crucial to the resort's survival, including lodges. It is at the point now where the summer events need to be bigger and more prolific, with relevant resourcing to match, i.e. staff, marketing etc, so that lodges can benefit from it. Excessive rates are disgusting, and I wonder whether lodge members can protest about that and take some sort of action, either to the minister and/resort management. Having constant management changes certainly does not help matters.

 

[Charlie]

New CEO appointed for Baw Baw and Lake Mountain
Gail Conman

 

[teckel]

What do we know about her? Does she ski?

I assume this is her: http://www.wlia.org.au/profile/gail-conman/

Gail Conman
Executive Director, Faculty of Architecture Building and Planning, The University of Melbourne
Current Positions
Executive Director, Faculty of Architecture Building and Planning, The University of Melbourne
Previous Positions
Executive Director - Corporate Services , Victorian Auditor General
Project Director, Melbourne Market Authority
Areas of Expertise
Business Business and Government, Professional Services
Government Government Regulation, Infrastructure and Transport, Treasury and Finance
Biography
Gail is a public sector capital funding and infrastructure expert with 9 years’ experience in the Victorian State Government.

Prior to this she spent more than 10 years in private sector finance roles in the UK and Australia. Her specific areas of expertise are people management (negotiations, relationship management etc), budget formulation and submission (and the Victorian capital budget processes), program budgeting and evaluation, project management, procurement, policy and strategy development, and assessing project delivery mechanisms.

She has a particular passion for the planning and execution of projects, capacity building within high performance teams, change management (business process re-engineering) and quality management (through six sigma, lean thinking or Gateway methodologies).

Gail was accepted into the PhD program 2009 at RMIT in the School of design Construction & Project management (supervisor Prof Helen Lingard). She is active in supporting the development of staff and became a mentor for the Youth (under 36) division of the Institute of Public Administration Australia (IPAA) program.

She has remained interested in science and technology and in order to retain a current connection with engineering, and has been a regular judge for the Victorian Engineering Excellence awards for Engineering Australia.

Now at the Faculty of Architecture, Building & Planning at the University of Melbourne (as of June 2013), Gail is enthusiastically adapting and looks forward to a successful transition to the university sector.

 

[Charlie]

Seems likely!

 

[teckel]

I thought they gave up the idea of a joint CEO years ago.

 

[Serenity]

The surname certainly does not inspire me, nor the total lack of any ski industry knowledge.

 

[teckel]

The surname certainly does not inspire me, nor the total lack of any ski industry knowledge.

Well, it seems one of her interests is engineering, so I presume she'll take an active interest in snow-making and lifts. And it's really up to her minions (operations managers etc) to school her in those areas sufficiently that she can understand and assist in executive decisions regarding those. Hopefully, she'll also be active in corporate governance to avoid the pitfalls of the (hopefully about to be ex) CEO at Buller and the previous female CEO of Baw Baw.
And I think she has a couple of young kids, which means she shouldn't neglect the snow play parts of the mountains - which is critical to the financial viability of both resorts (but particularly LM).

 

[Serenity]

I admire your optimism, but having a couple of kids does not mean she will have an active interest in snowplay. The management history of both resorts, especially Baw Baw, has been hit and miss, with no continuity or consistency, and Baw Baw has only just hired its management staff, probably too close to winter to do anything substantial except getting to know the job. As always, time will tell how good these people are with the example set at the top.

 

[Hunter]

More reports - new ceo - more reports- ALL JUST RUBBISH

Money + power + water = lots more snowmaking ( start with a Buller ice machine asap )

That is the ONLY thing that will stop the hill being shut down in the near future all the rest is pointless

 

[Old_Towie]

Having been on the Mountain for 53 Years Plus.
My prediction is that within 5 years there will be NO CLUB accommodation available to the Seathing Masses that come to Baw Baw.
If only the Bored of Management could understand that and they and do something about it.
Like reducing the Bed Rate that is imposed on the “ Stake Holders”.

Old Towie

 

[Chaeron]

Like Lake Mountain Baw-Baw's caught on not having the visitor numbers to cover the required investment to make it sustainable in the long term from the point of view of state government, especially given the impact of climate change. So unfortunately I think we'll see state governments leverage off existing infrastructure without committing adequate investment to upgrade- any future community (club) inputs would have to be made with this in mind. State government will just run the place into the ground on a break-even basis, with no eye on the future or sustainability. The existing pricing reflects exaclty this. Don't like it, don't like it at all!!!

 

[Chaeron]

If State government was being honest, they'd move away from a commercial mode and 'resort management' of Lake Mountain and Baw-Baw', and support the community-based lodges and clubs who currently use these spaces, shifting cash away from executive management, infrastructural cost-recovery and resort ticketing to maintaining cross-country trails and all-weather access, as well as facilitating day tripper visitation for snow play (toboganning) and mountain biking, and eco-tourist experiences. Less ski resort mindset- think Halls Gap which is orientated towards the day trippers, not the rock climbers... Baw Baw is likely to be no different to Mt Sterling - some hopeful vendors at the gate, and some residual tracks managed by ParksVic on a shoestring.

 

[Chaeron]

What do we know about her? Does she ski?

Only a cynic would see a cost-cutting, career-minded beaurocrat who would prioritize managing to a budget over meeting community expectations. Only a fool would see an ecological visionary passionate about recreational skiing.

 

[RTL]

If State government was being honest, they'd move away from a commercial mode and 'resort management' of Lake Mountain and Baw-Baw', and support the community-based lodges and clubs who currently use these spaces, shifting cash away from executive management, infrastructural cost-recovery and resort ticketing to maintaining cross-country trails and all-weather access, as well as facilitating day tripper visitation for snow play (toboganning) and mountain biking, and eco-tourist experiences. Less ski resort mindset- think Halls Gap which is orientated towards the day trippers, not the rock climbers... Baw Baw is likely to be no different to Mt Sterling - some hopeful vendors at the gate, and some residual tracks managed by ParksVic on a shoestring.

Ideal scenario would be lift company goes into liquidation. Ski clubs get together and buy infrastructure at firesale price. Baw Baw becomes a club ski field like in NZ. Village infrastructure goes to administration of Baw Baw Shire, just like any other town. Water and sewerage managed by Gippsland Water just like another town.

 

[Old_Towie]

@RTL
Thanks for the Thought ?
The STATE took away Our tows for 10 CENTS in the Dollar some years, why do you think that the Chairlift was removed ??
and look at the stuff up that they have made of the Mountain since. Talk about MissManagement.

Good luck with the thoughts.

Old_Towie

 

[RTL]

@RTL
Thanks for the Thought ?
The STATE took away Our tows for 10 CENTS in the Dollar some years, why do you think that the Chairlift was removed ??
and look at the stuff up that they have made of the Mountain since. Talk about MissManagement.

Good luck with the thoughts.

Old_Towie

Agree with you about the access chairlift. With a bit of investment, it could have become the prime destination for downhill mountain bike close to Melbourne.

 

[Old_Towie]

Agree with you about the access chairlift. With a bit of investment, it could have become the prime destination for downhill mountain bike close to Melbourne.

@RTL
Politely, Lets get the Mountain back in shape for its PRIMARY purpose SKIING (and perhaps Boarding)
and then when its working look at the other uses.

Old_Towie

 

[snowgum]

@RTL
Thanks for the Thought ?
The STATE took away Our tows for 10 CENTS in the Dollar some years, why do you think that the Chairlift was removed ??
and look at the stuff up that they have made of the Mountain since. Talk about MissManagement.

Good luck with the thoughts.

Old_Towie

It would seem Bawbs is going down the 'Buffalo path' (obviously with the difference of a village attached).

Governments (all colours) are great at this - spending / marketing just enough to prevent collapse but well below sufficient to upgrade and thrive.

The big issue is that the Big five resorts aren't standing still (however much we criticise here), as they add: increased snowmaking capacity and efficiency, upgraded accomodation options, improved lifts, summer and winter grooming capacity, water storage, energy supply & xc ski trail Maintenance.

So increasingly, by effectively treading water, Bawbs is sadly going backwards. And while its proximity to the Southeastern suburbs and west Gippsland is a major attribute, this fact isn't sufficient to attract customers while other aspects detract.

...And management are seriously deluded if they think the average Baw Baw punter is prepared to pay 'Buller-type' bed rates for mostly dated club-lodge style digs (not too mention very uncertain snow).

As a keen and semi regular winter visitor to the mountain' let's hope management are listening.

 

[snowgum]

@RTL
Politely, Lets get the Mountain back in shape for its PRIMARY purpose SKIING (and perhaps Boarding)
and then when its working look at the other uses.

Old_Towie

Agreed and further:

Add:
- decent Electricity capacity for snowmaking;
- Add decent snowmaking top-to-bottom on 2-3 longer/better runs (say Maltese/Summit);
- use a Buller style slush puppy if need be;
- make better use of the 'colder spells' for snowmaking - not just have them 'on standby';
- remove the rocks that prevent skiing on some important runs for half the season;
- market the upgrades extensively and place cams in the upgraded areas;
- provide some decent Earlybird packages and flexible pass deals like other mountains do.

And fix the poorly maintained xc ski/bike village loop.

...(a start).

 

[bawbawbel]

Ideal scenario would be lift company goes into liquidation. Ski clubs get together and buy infrastructure at firesale price. Baw Baw becomes a club ski field like in NZ. Village infrastructure goes to administration of Baw Baw Shire, just like any other town. Water and sewerage managed by Gippsland Water just like another town.

Too obvious and logical.
Vail Resorts owns Perisher ( and recently Stowe and lots of small mountains ).
Impossible scenario ? Vail buys BB from the government (Hooray) and shuts it down (Boo).

 

[RTL]

Too obvious and logical.
Vail Resorts owns Perisher ( and recently Stowe and lots of small mountains ).
Impossible scenario ? Vail buys BB from the government (Hooray) and shuts it down (Boo).

Haha.No resort entry fee, I decide if I need to fit chains or not, no parking problems, no crowds, no problems. Just self-propelled skiing bliss!

 

[Charlie]

For what it's worth, Baw Baw have declared the season upen as of yesterday 2PM
No tows running yet, but free entry!

 

[weerab]

For what it's worth, Baw Baw have declared the season upen as of yesterday 2PM
No tows running yet, but free entry!

Charlie, do you know if it is still free entry for over 65's. Not that i am that old, just curious.

 

[Charlie]

I believe so, only if everybody in the car is over 65
If you happen to be travelling with a junior, you have to kick them out and pick them up on the other side of the gate.
I imagine you wouldn't be paying for lift tickets either weerab?

 

[weerab]

I believe so, only if everybody in the car is over 65
If you happen to be travelling with a junior, you have to kick them out and pick them up on the other side of the gate.
I imagine you wouldn't be paying for lift tickets either weerab?

No I still ride the lifts a bit, mainly at Falls because I am too tired/lazy to ski up the McKay Road.

 

[Charlie]

My point was, that you wouldn't pay for lift tickets 'cause they're free to over 70 Y/Os