1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW REGISTRATIONS

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Apr├Ęs topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Future of Baw Baw

Discussion in 'Mt Baw Baw' started by Forty, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    998
    Location:
    vic
    Sorry folks,
    Bawbs seems to be heading the way of Buffalo if something isn't done.

    In the era of the snowgun, groomer & $50 car parking, most alpine skiers expect a couple of decent runs to be skiable top-bottom to spend their hard-earned muller!

    Snowmaking on the lower 1/3 of Summit, Hut & Maltese doesn't achieve this. While T-B snow won't guarantee hoards of skiers, it would sure help. Sure you need the weather but T-B would give BB a gifting chance in fickle conditions.

    Also time to consider (buy?) guns that work in the most marginal conditions ( I think that may mean air-water models)??

    Plus the XC stuff already mentioned!! Not rocket science :)-)

    SG
     
  2. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,802
    Likes Received:
    8,436
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    LM estimates $4-5 million for the IDE system. Not sure how much land that would cover - so possibly a lot more for BB?
     
  3. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    998
    Location:
    vic
    Please excuse the ignorance Teckel - is that the Icemaker system, air water or fan?

    Either way it's not cheap but then there's no point franchising the resort ops without a reasonable chance of a return (skiers) and for me that's dependent upon suitable snowmaking early in most seasons and middle of poor seasons like this one (as weather allows!)

    Don't mean too sound too negative - I hope board can raise a business case for improvements - it's great to have a low cost alternative for Gippy/Melbourne skiers!
     
    #53 snowgum, Sep 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  4. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    The problem for BB is that it gets too much rain and not enough snow, and when it's raining you cant make snow. If BB was in a desert or somewhere in a rain shadow, but had very cold temperatures often, then it would be more viable as a snowmaking resort. Think of some of the resorts in NE USA, which get less snowfall but very cold temps and can pump out huge amounts of snow.

    At BB you'd get cold temps and you could make snow, but then there would be a big chance it would all get washed away with the next front, especially seeing BB gets the 'leftovers' of systems and those pesky showers that hang around once the snow level has risen.
     
  5. Serenity

    Serenity Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Gippsland
    Let's not get too pessimistic,I have been going to Baw Baw for many years and this poor season is long overdue and expected,it's quite possible next year could be a bumper one.Having said that,we have the lowest elevation and depend on the intermittent southerlies from Tassie to bring us the really good snow fronts,this,combined with mother nature makes for a less than consistent snow season,sometimes it starts early and splutters along,other times it starts late and finishes late plus every other combination,and yes,this year the rain did cometh and washed it all away.More efficient snowguns,such as the one's at Perisher,would help extend the season,even if they focused just on the summit run,to have something decent at the end,however, the future viability of the resort will depend on government decisions,especially relating to how much money the taxpayer is losing every year in keeping the resort going,and future development of vital infrastructure and 'green' season events.There are I believe resorts o/s that make more money in the summer than they do in the winter,but the money has been poured into those resorts early on to set them up for this.If the government was smart (or foolish,depending on your point of view) they should bite the bullet and pour in 20mil or more and make a concerted effort to really put the resort on the map by adding said infrastructure,improving road access,put in a gondola/chairlift that would be used all year round and make the resort worldclass in all aspects.I think I am dreaming here and so much for my short response,bugger.
     
  6. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,802
    Likes Received:
    8,436
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Sorry, Just saw this. No, not an ice-maker. It's the Israeli system where they can make snow in a vacuum in warm temperatures.
    http://www.ide-tech.com/refrigeration-and-heating/snow-machines
    http://www.zermatt.ch/en/page.cfm/news_events/presscorner/pc_press_releases/pm_ide-snowmaker
     
    #56 teckel, Sep 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  7. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    998
    Location:
    vic
    Fabulous Teckel! I'm in, where do I sign.

    ...Now we just need a government & board with a good imagination and deep pockets. Mmm - not sure about the latter given the current austerity drive but this could 'save' the smaller/lower Vic hills including (ESP Buller).

    Looks exi though - any ideas as to the $$?
     
  8. Serenity

    Serenity Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Gippsland
    Looks to be much better than the Perisher system,not temperature/humidity dependant.Same as snowgum, what are they worth?You should forward that information to the resorts ceo! Make them part of the $20mil plus package ha,ha.
     
  9. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,802
    Likes Received:
    8,436
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    As I said earlier, I think LM is looking at $4-5 million.
     
  10. eurosnowtec

    eurosnowtec Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Europe
    We have a full report and costing for the IDE system and have spoken to them and had IDE up to look at the resort, as you said it is down to money. This system is the way forward for all the resorts in Australia and also a number in Europe. We need as much support as possible from all the locals and also the tourist industry to gain the funding.
     
  11. Serenity

    Serenity Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Gippsland
    Eurosnowtec,are you talking about LM,BB or both,and if BB,how did they respond? I assume the total cost is similar to LM?
     
  12. eurosnowtec

    eurosnowtec Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Europe
    Just Lake Mountain, this has been an ongoing project for the past two years, with full technical information from IDE submitted, design, costs. This is the only viable option for Lake Mountain's snow production.
     
  13. Serenity

    Serenity Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Gippsland
    As you say, all you are waiting on is the money,which would have to come from the state government,good luck with that unless it is already locked in! BB is probably in a worse financial situation,with bigger losses, especially this year.
     
  14. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    40,802
    Likes Received:
    8,436
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    What I find frustrating is the money that LM needs was probably spent on a new big and grandiose building to replace a dunny block and ski patrol rooms after Black Saturday. If LM can't guarantee snow, that building is in danger of becoming a white elephant.
     
  15. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    3,203
    Likes Received:
    998
    Location:
    vic
    Pardon the tangent here but a relevant one!

    Public funding of parks and rec facilities is inconsistent at best - damn unfair for many at worst.

    State governments can spend dozens or even (MCG) hundreds millions dollars on football /soccer/tennis stadiums, motor vehicle race facilities etc... But try getting a few million for a non mainstream/rural facility (i.e ski/snow play....etc) and watch the list excuses.

    Let's hope Lake Mtn's success is considered a special case - mind you I'd like to think Buffalo & Baw Baw are too!
     
  16. Serenity

    Serenity Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    57
    Location:
    Gippsland
    I'm not sure LM has been guaranteed the necessary money for the IDE system, I think it has only been costed and waiting on further approval. As I said earlier, good luck with that one! State governments spend millions on said sporting facilities because they usually bring in millions of dollars to the economy, whereas LM and BB are costing the state money. LM is also a slightly different case due to the area being devastated by the bushfires, hence receiving government and insurance money to rebuild not just the resort but an entire community.
     
  17. FastFarmer

    FastFarmer Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    As far as I know, Baw Baw has been in decline the last decade!

    With an environmentally focused board that is more concerned about the Baw Baw Frog than skiers, and a CEO who has Parks Victoria in his DNA, there is NO future for Baw Baw as an alpine resort.

    Confirmed when I read with amusement in the FY12 annual report they will now "establish Mt Baw Baw as a destination of choice for disabled sports". Yes the joke continues... they are now going to save the resort with hoards of disabled people. You have to ask, does any one in the Baw Baw management team have any business savvy?

    But to be fair, the board and the CEO, probably like it how it is. And that's why I send my money elsewhere...
     
    #67 FastFarmer, Sep 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  18. FastFarmer

    FastFarmer Hard Yards

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Forty,

    Great post! A couple of comments...

    Sealing the south face road is a complete waste of money. It's too far and too out of the way for people coming from Melbourne. I have never understood why they didn't develop Riley Ridge Road.

    If Baw Baw was about skiing on snow, they would seriously get the bulldozers out and give skiers one big nude hill, with a couple of your $2.5Mill lifts getting everyone back upto the top.

    Stuart can moan all he wants about the cost of electricity, but if he was making money then cost of electricity is a business cost and irrelevant.

    Baw Baw will be around for my kids, there kids, and there kids kids. But somehow I don't think it will be as you and me know it, and I have little doubt not as a ski resort.

    Cheers