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News Geoscience Aust. will stop making/selling paper topo.maps on 13.12.19

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I believe people can still download and print a map if they need a hardcopy
     
  2. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    On little A4 pieces of paper (unless they have a larger printer).
     
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  3. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lots of people still want maps. I sell shitloads. But the Anacondas/BCFs etc don't sell them, because they want people to buy expensive GPSs. People walk into my shop and go nuts in the map section saying they've unsuccessfully searched Melbourne for maps.
    And a lot of parents want to teach their kids to read maps.
     
  4. Stratus

    Stratus A Local

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    Sure....^
     
  5. emkae

    emkae One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  6. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m not sure I’ve ever bought a geosciences Australia map.

    What do they cover that others don’t?
     
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  7. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  8. cruisin along

    cruisin along A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I love real maps ....spread out over the floor exploring where to next ...seeing the bigger picture instead of a small GPS screen. Nothing matches the old Gregories for fun when driving, laughing when your passenger has the thing upside down and you are totally lost.
    It would be a real shame not to have maps ....real maps available anymore.
     
  9. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    below is their list of topo maps - mostly small scale. my maps are mostly vicmap 1:25k or 1:50K or rooftop which are mainly 1:100K and/or 1:50K. Doubt that I would miss the geoscience ones, although it's sad in principle that they are disappearing.

    1:50 000 Scale Maps
    • Coverage: Partial coverage, predominantly in northern Australia, along major transport routes, and other selected areas. About 2761 maps have been published to date.
    • Currency: 1968 to 2006
    • Coordinates: Geographical and UTM
    • Datum: AGD66, new edition WGS84; AHD
    • Projection: Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM)
    [​IMG]1:50 000 Scale Topographic Map Index

    1:100 000 Scale Maps
    • Coverage: Australia is covered by more than 3000 x 1:100 000 scale maps, of which 1600 have been published as printed maps. Unpublished maps are available as compilations (compilations are accurate plots from photogrammetric models using aerial photographs with established control point framework).
    • Currency: 1961 to 2008
    • Coordinates: Geographical and either AMG or MGA coordinates
    • Datum: AGD66, GDA94; AHD
    • Projection: Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM)
    [​IMG]1:100 000 Scale Topographic Map Index

    1:250 000 Scale Maps
    • Coverage: Covers the whole of Australia with 516 maps.
    • Currency: 1995 to 2012
    • Coordinates: Geographical and MGA
    • Datum: GDA94, AHD
    • Projection: Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM)
    [​IMG]1:250 000 Scale Maps

    1:1 Million Scale Maps
    • Coverage: Whole of Australia covered with 49 maps (please refer Status). National coverage first completed in 1975.
    • Currency: IMW 1971 to 1983. General Reference Topographic 2008-2011
    • Coordinates: Geographical
    • Datum: AGD66 (GDA94 compliant at this scale); AHD
    • Projection: Lambert Conformal Conic
    • Status: The IMW are no longer maintained and some maps may not be available. A new series based on the World Aeronautical Charts (WAC) series of maps was completed in early 2011 and is known as the 1:1 million General Reference Topographic Map Series.
    [​IMG]1:1 Million Scale Maps
     
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  10. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    once one sorts out size, durability is an issue
     
  11. Mark F

    Mark F Hard Yards

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    Officeworks can print them onto Tyvec for a robust, water resistant map.
     
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  12. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I usually make a colour A3 photocopy of the particular SV map section I need and then take it to be laminated.
     
  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am so far gone I read novels and real maps in bed before I go off to sleep at night.
     
    whether and cruisin along like this.
  14. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Digital maps are great for planning/pondering.

    Would not yet rely on them though.

    Redundancy is good.
     
  15. CaptainC

    CaptainC Hard Yards

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    Melbourne Map Centre are still operating online. I ordered 3 new paper maps just 2 months ago. Not the same as going into the shop an looking at the maps before you buy them though.
     
  16. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    will make it difficult trying to plot bearings when the maps don't scale to your roamer.
     
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  17. Mark F

    Mark F Hard Yards

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    If you print a pdf format map and set the printer to "Do not scale" it will come out at the scale designated by the file, 1:25K, 50K etc. depending on your source.
     
  18. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    IME, honestly digital is more reliable...my garmin has never gotten damaged when damp, torn from too much folding, and it's never blown away either.
     
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  19. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Nothing like scrolling over a paper map. Easy to route plan, and look for interesting side trips, etc.
     
  20. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The new SV map of The Buller Howitt( 3rd edition) area shows the location of Weir's hut near the Mt.Clear/ Chester's Yard area. This is a hut that I was unaware of.
    In fact having studied this map further it has been well updated.
    For instance Queen's Spur road used to be shown to continue out to near The Pimple. The map no longer shows this very overgrown disused logging track .It is still there, a bench cut track, but I think even the Timbertop school students have stopped using that route to reach Mt. Buggery , even though the bushwalking notes with the map describe such a trek.
    Other bushwalking tracks that have been left to nature by Parks Vic. have been either omitted or downgraded to a faint foot pad type route.
     
    #21 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 11, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  21. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Also missing on the S.V. Buller -Howitt 3rd edition : The 8 mile spur walking track. I walked it a few years ago after it was freshly recut. It is steep!. The track from the Upper Jamieson river hut to Mt. McDonald. I went to look for that track but it is gone , returned to nature so fair enough it is no longer marked on the map , and the water point at Hellfire Creek is now marked much further down stream and the distance from the campsite below Hell's Gap to the said water point is no longer indicated.
    The Lick hole track is now closed but the map indicates its location even though much of it has become almost very heavy going through overgrown scrub. Much of the general area seems to be written off by Parks Vic. for track maintenance . Only volunteers can help keep some of these routes open incl. the Eagles peaks Walking track which is now shown as "route only".
     
  22. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    NSW just announced the same thing.
    Much more of a **** than Geosiences Australia.
    Bummer.
     
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  23. ecowain

    ecowain One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    NSW made its big cut this time last year, then quietly stopped printing the rest of the maps recently.
     
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  24. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    :(
     
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  25. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yay liberal
     
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  26. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    That is the last thing that political party is .They seem to be anti everything.
     
  27. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now come on children, the other political team has also done some things we don't like as well and this isn't the place for Petty Partisan Political Point scoring.

    I doubt any government mapping service is expected to make money, or even break even. But there has to a point where a decreasing demand combined with big expenses means that something must end.

    I think it's a case of use it or lose it. Decades ago country people complained about branch railway lines closing down, yet those people never used the passenger service or consigned freight to the local rail terminals. Governments of both sides couldn't responsibly spend taxpayers money on maintaining rail lines that almost no one used, so sadly, they had no sensible option except to close all those pretty country railway lines.

    I reckon printed maps are the same. Yes, there is a niche market for printed hiking maps and the like which cover certain areas and small companies fill that niche very well. But the vast majority of the market has gone digital. Land management groups, farmers and a dozen other types of former buyers don't want paper any more. No matter which "political team" you "barrack" for, I think most of us would concede that it would be irresponsible for a government to subsidise the printing of tiny batches of these maps and the warehousing and distribution costs if very few people want them.
     
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  28. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes , you are right . I do note that the latest SV Buller Howitt map also has some major errors such as putting the wrong caption with the wrong photo or elevation profile chart.
     
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  29. Mark F

    Mark F Hard Yards

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    At least with digital maps updates can be done quickly. Not the case where there are a few hundred paper maps that need to be sold before a reprint can be justified. You only need look at how long some of the NSW 1:25k paper maps took, or didn't even reach, the upgrade from ADG to GDA.
     
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  30. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    LOL
    Updates
    LOL
     
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  31. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Madness on many levels.

    Australia showing once again how backward you are when it comes to just about everything geospatial.
     
  32. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    It is all part of a general anti intellectual dumbing down of the overall anti science and greater public knowledge trend that is prevalent in Ozstriya .
     
    #33 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Oct 14, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  33. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    It's a massive bummer, is what it is.
     
  34. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    They can't remove magnetic north.

    They can't move the sun, time or the stars.
     
  35. Mark F

    Mark F Hard Yards

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    You obviously don't remember the old days when you could only access map data by paying exorbitant sums of money and signing usage and non-disclosure agreements etc. Now we can all access that data largely free of charge and use our intellects to shape it into maps that fulfill our requirements.

    All that has happened is that paper maps are not being produced by governments but the data and even the maps are still available and now free for us to print or manipulate as we wish.
     
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  36. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I highly recommend Open Topo Maps, which seems to have got around the paywall that some (but not all) states have put around their most detailed maps. Their coverage of Tasmania and Victoria at 1:25,000 is outstanding. https://opentopomap.org/#map=15/-37.71384/145.70004
     
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  37. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    On android, Aust Topo Maps is a handy quick reference.
     
  38. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    If a labour government was in power I'd be saying yay labour instead. But it was the Libs who were in charge so they get the blame.

    Printing maps costs peanuts, railways are expensive, a poor comparison. If we give up on subsidised government services we can give up on services delivered to anyone out side the capital cities.
     
  39. Scott No Mates Ver 1.1

    Scott No Mates Ver 1.1 Addicted

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    I was looking at a walk in the Blue Mountains (to be attempted by a group of Venturers). My concern was "....we are walking to XXX Lookout then YYY Lookout...". Not an issue, until the NPWS & Topomaps both show that there is a 100m cliff in between these two points. :eek:
     
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  40. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Very nice. But I could not work out the Grid being used.
     
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  41. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Open access to data is good, yes. But there's a lot to be said for having an authoritative topographic product.
     
  42. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    Pretty gross tbh, a lake boundary intersecting elevation contours...?
     
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  43. Belly

    Belly A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've got a pretty good collection covering the main Vic and nsw alpine areas and they've barely been used as I've always done colour scans using the work printer for my field use. Might be worth something one day...
     
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  44. neilmny

    neilmny Addicted

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    The SRTM contours are generated from satellite imaging and are "smoothed" rather than exactly true shape.
    In a paper map poetic license can be used to make the data look just so around various objects.
     
  45. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I doubt that a slightly errant 10 metre contour line matters, unless you are a surveyor or suffering from chronic OCD.

    But if the contour lines are 50 metres apart then that that is entirely different, as that difference in altitude may be an issue in some circumstances.
     
  46. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The contour lines are fine, it’s the blue colouring in for the water bodies that is the issue, it’s crap.
     
  47. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    SRTM is a pretty shitty source for contours at that scale. In fact, these days, in developed nations, it should be an obsolete source of elevation data.
     
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  48. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    You might be interested to know that in Australia and NZ, the SRTM elevation data is used by actuaries to determine the sea level rise risk exposure of buildings (residential and commercial). I don't know if that's because they genuinely (naively) don't know any better, are lazy, or are cheap (the data is freely available), but it has big ramifications.
     
  49. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well according to Open Topo Maps, my house in North Carlton (inner Melbourne) lies just above the 40 metre contour line, so unless the whole of Antarctica melts or the contours are as inaccurate as people are alleging, my house should remain above sea level, so it's probably okay for me to invest in renovating it.