Event Gippsland, NE Victoria & Alpine Fires

Discussion in 'Alpine & Southern' started by Ubiquitous Steve, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Chux-sw

    Chux-sw Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    107
    I was checking on a flight earlier on flightradar24 and just happen to see a chopper over Mt Buffalo. Zooming in showed this flight path. Sick bag any one?

     
    cold wombat and WarrandyteWX like this.
  2. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,987
    Likes Received:
    10,517
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    Very sad.

    And this is what worries me with all the social media posts claiming the bush would be better managed if we left it up to the old bushies and land owners who know how to "look after the land" because they've been doing it forever
     
    #1302 GS, Jan 15, 2020 at 4:22 PM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 6:38 AM
  3. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,878
    Likes Received:
    4,731
  4. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,987
    Likes Received:
    10,517
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
  5. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,878
    Likes Received:
    4,731
    I'm hoping for a similar outcome for Errinundra National Park.
     
    GS and currawong like this.
  6. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    31,102
    Likes Received:
    26,028
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    You don't understand. A Royal Commission is not called to achieve anything concrete. It is called so those whom we permit to rule us can justify doing nothing for 2 years by saying "We will wait for the recommendations of the Royal Commission before we rush into anything". It kicks the can down the road for a couple of years.
     
  7. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,977
    Likes Received:
    15,714
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    a royal commission has the potential to calmly and intelligently examine what has happened and what is known about causes and things that may make a difference in future. but it is a fragile thing that can easily be subverted. guess which we will get here
     
  8. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    60,244
    Likes Received:
    30,936
    Location:
    East Coast
    Remember when a desalination plant was proposed for Sydney in the last drought when dam storage was in dire states ..... apply the same thinking to bushfire strike teams and assets.

    Set the strike team system up, fund it, use it for fire prevention land management when there is nil fire and have "thunderbirds are go" ready to hit any lightening strikes with lethal fire suppression when and wherever they occur.
     
    Tanuki, Jacko4650 and GS like this.
  9. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,987
    Likes Received:
    10,517
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    Easily fund it by selling a couple of those new subs...
     
  10. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    I was asked to participate in one for Flooding (2011, Qld) and it was certainly set up to be something of substance. eg: one of my 'observations' was the Police needed greater powers to move on rubberneckers, to which the local Superintendent thought I was being critical and sent around a Senior Sergeant to 'sort me out'. When one of the Detective Inspectors assigned to the Commission found out about this, he ripped the shit out of the Superintendant and his crew and told them their careers would be over if they ever tried to interfere with a "Royal Commission of enquiry". I was taken aback and realised the process was not a political talkfest. What happened AFTER the Commissioner's recommendation turned out to be a bit of a nuffy, but to this day, many people step back when you talk about an official submission to the Commission of Enquiry; including Councillors and Disaster Management staff (State & Council). Another local contributor, an ex-copper was so 'taken' by the Royal Commission he has dedicated the rest of his life to improving flood warning, flood resilience, disaster communications and so on - without remuneration and getting way too much resistance from the 'paid' experts. After many years, he has now attained change across all States and New Zealand - and is pushing for a worldwide universal code for flood warnings, colour codes and is establishing an education package amongst other things. The Local Council treats him with disrespect, even though who knows more than all of them put together; such a shame. Royal commissions CAN have positive outcomes, albeit indirectly at times.
     
  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    31,102
    Likes Received:
    26,028
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    An anecdote about Royal Commissions.

    While the Street Royal Commission into, among other things, allegations of corruption in the Local Court around Kevin Humpheys I was having Friday drinks with a few of the barristers involved. Jim Spigelman, counsel assisting I think, was there as well as counsel for the ABC and a couple of others. I made a suggestion that , if true, meant that no one was lying and which explained at least that sector of the inquiry. Jim agreed (and I have subsequently heard him claim the idea as his own). But it was never raised in the Commission because it did not suit the interests of any of the people or organisations represented.

    Do not (necessarily) expect wide ranging or dispassionate analysis from a Royal Commission.
     
    currawong likes this.
  12. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    Yes. "Thunderbirds are go" is a great goal.
     
  13. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    Royal Commissions have a brief and all too often (important) things come up which are outside scope, yet nonetheless critical. Nullifies results in some cases!
     
    Tanuki and currawong like this.
  14. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    31,102
    Likes Received:
    26,028
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Whether it happened and who bribed a magistrate was front and centre of that inquiry.
     
    Tanuki and Jacko4650 like this.
  15. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    Gees!
     
  16. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Most of the recommendations from the Black Saturday RC have been implemented. Not just in Vic, but nation wide.
    Oh. Just heard Peter Marshall (and his mate Daniel Andrews) doesn't want a RC. I'm desperately in favour of one now. What's he trying to hide?
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  17. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    Is that the Unionist Peter Marshall?
     
    teckel likes this.
  18. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    31,102
    Likes Received:
    26,028
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    I think you and I were probably in different engine rooms. Yours seems to have been at the evidence gathering level. Mine was at the how parties manipulated that evidence stage.

    Different Commissions function in different ways. A different mate was one of counsel assisting at the Cole Commission into the building industry. Some hair raising stories there.
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  19. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Yep. UFU
     
  20. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,891
    Likes Received:
    2,990
    Ours was VERY public. Press permitted and taking lots of footage for TV and other media, lots of pollies, bureacrats, Police etc. Very formal. BTW - my recommendation was to provide Police with MORE discretionary powers to move people along. We were madly trying to evacuate cabins and other assets (costing about $100K per hr in hindsight) with TV crews and rubberneckers getting in our way. We hit 2 people with our tractor, nearly ran over the Ch.7 cameraman (who later apologised) and had to travel much further than needed to to get past rubberneckers parking where they shouldn't. Police have powers but are frightened to use them. They are not trained in such powers. They need not have to "convince" rubberneckers to get out of the way of people evacuating, regardless the disaster.
     
    Tanuki likes this.
  21. weerab

    weerab One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,596
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Location:
    Beautiful Altona Victoria
    Curra, are you in Mt Beauty at the moment? Thinking about coming up next week to look at our neglected block, actually it's not, it is well looked after by Mark G from Mt Beauty. Our BIL had to evacuate Bright a week or so a go and returned last Friday but his friends could not go thru to Harrietville till Saturday morning. My other BIL decided to stick it out in Harrietville and was only one of 15 or so people to stay there but they are safe so far!
     
    teckel likes this.
  22. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    22,529
    Likes Received:
    15,174
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW
    It's a bit of a worry that you think we can mitigate fires and floods and tidal surges. Why should sensible people that chose to live in places that are not flood prone, not fire prone and not subject to tidal inundation subsidise people who chose to live in these places? Tell I'm he's dreaming of you think you can control nature.
     
  23. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,977
    Likes Received:
    15,714
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    yep here now for a little while then off on a planned holiday. we took off for about 10 days ahead of the bad Saturday. very smokey here but no imminent danger. will be a worry till the fires are out, however long that may be. it's good to find excuses not to be here the while time.
    Mark G is pretty diligent, nice bloke.
     
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,420
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    A Royal Commission on a Federal level to talk about something which is controlled (loose term) on a State level. I am not sure it could really get to the heart of the problem. We have had a bit of a local gathering the last couple of nights and of course the discussion centres around the fires. We watched last night the ridgeline south of us burn fiercely toward a neighbours property and then saw the lights of a number of vehicles heading up. This is the same fire that burnt through to Omeo and took homes, stock and other property but also caused, by consequence, the death of man. The CFA Captain screamed for assistance to be brought in on these fires early. The NE refused to send anything as it was an East Gippsland fire. EG was burning through to the coast and could not divert anything for a few small fires which seemed quite insignificant and yet aerial resources can get straight onto a fire which threatens logging coupes.

    I spoke with the CFA Captain again yesterday. We get on very well and he is quite despondent just now. I wasn't asking him to provide help but thought someone should give him an on the ground update to say the fire was now on private land and likely to take houses out if it continues on its path which eventually will take Omeo from the north. It has now grown to an unmanageable size which cannot be stopped without weather intervention. He also told me things would be better if the buggers stopped lying to him. A few days back, when I spoke with the fire controller on the ground, I noticed his map did not have the fire burning down from Trapyard Gap into Shannovale (now joined with the other two) but this fire should have been known to them. The CFA had told them. It was information that had been past by myself and others. I impressed on them the importance of these fires if not contained, that being Omeo under threat again. It seems something happened last night and maybe the penny dropped.
    I really hope an RC gets to this sort of depth. It is a very dysfunctional system in Vic and maybe Andrews is worried that will be discovered.
    Looking now like we will have to hold out until Sunday for any good rain.
     
    Jacko4650 likes this.
  25. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,878
    Likes Received:
    4,731
    This is exactly what could have prevented the Christmas Day fire that destroyed Wye River and our family property. A small fire was smouldering in a very remote valley to the NE of Wye and it was allowed to sit and brood for a few days. Then in Xmas day it was unexpectedly hot and the northerly whipped the smoulder into a conflagration.
    A good strike team should've been sent to extinguish. Hindsight and all that.
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  26. Tanuki

    Tanuki A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,878
    Likes Received:
    4,731
    The recommended hazard reductions from the RC were subsequently found to be excessive and dangerous (science).
     
  27. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Sounds like an endemic problem of DELWP's culture has still not been resolved. :(
    On BS, the fire spotter guy on Mt Gordon (between here and Marysville) risked everything and stayed in his fire tower until the very last minute, reporting in everything that happened as he knew his info would be absolutely critical. They told him to get out numerous times, but he was the only person who could see what was happening, so he stayed and kept reporting. (He also phoned every number in his phone book telling people to evacuate Marysville. All he got was "nah, she'll be right".) It turned out that not a single word he'd said on the DELWP radio was relayed to incident control. In the meantime, DELWP incident control sent a vehicle into the heart of the fire to report on what info they could get, because they had no info. The RC looked at WTF had happened, and all they got was conflicting statements from DELWP. Clearly someone or several people were lying - the RC could not identify who. Poor Andy blamed himself for every Marysville death. :( Got little or no support from DELWP, just more arse covering and lies. You would think their communication and culture issues would have been resolved by now. From what you're saying, it would seem not :(

    And before someone else falsely accuses me of being 'angry' here's a ref to the transcript of the RC into DELWP's actions:
    http://royalcommission.vic.gov.au/g...f05a2/Transcript_VBRC_Day_098_02-Feb-2010.pdf
     
    #1327 teckel, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:35 AM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 5:14 PM
  28. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    9,987
    Likes Received:
    10,517
    Location:
    Yarra Valley Vic
    I knew a bloke that worked on a fire crew for DSE I think it was at the time, he often said there was little incentive to put fires out in any hurry....they were quite good $$ earners, especially once the long hours were put in. :(
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis and teckel like this.
  29. legend

    legend One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    lakes entrance
    No rain for most of East Gippsland. 10mm in Gelantipy.
     
  30. mick chopps

    mick chopps Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    72,551
    Likes Received:
    53,774
    Location:
    The barber's chair
    as progged. they'll get their bit (not as much as NE or Alpine) late on the weekend.
     
    Claude Cat likes this.
  31. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    71,945
    Likes Received:
    26,549
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    This is not the right place to discuss the damage the UFU has and will continue to do to the CFA.
     
    Claude Cat likes this.
  32. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    71,945
    Likes Received:
    26,549
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    The amount of fires the DSE or whatever they're called now, DELWP or something, have started over the years that ended up out of control would outnumber the amount of bushfires arsonists have started IMO. For the most part, clueless cowboys with too much authority. CFA/RFS etc work with them when they have to.
     
  33. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    WTF? Wasn't being discussed.
     
  34. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    5,616
    Location:
    Sydney
    Stopped short, but you introduced the topic.
     
    Vermillion likes this.
  35. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    I mentioned a name. Someone wished to confirm who that was. No attempt to politicise it. Why are you so interested to inspire you to comment? You're in NSW - Marshall is irrelevant to you.
    What's pissing me off in this thread is all the wannabe mods who yell what should be and shouldn't be included. Some stuff is allowed in here which imo should be in the pit. Other stuff that is totally relevant gets shoved off to the pit, where it gets lost in the political barracking mode that is BP. Why can't people let the mods moderate without telling them what belongs where. Is it any wonder people no longer know. (Yeah, sure, I'll pass comment, but only after intervention that I feel is wrong normally initiated by a wannabe, rather than a mod. But I accept the mods' decisions and don't attempt to advise them to move others comments elsewhere. Or if I do, it's using the Report button.)
     
  36. mick chopps

    mick chopps Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    72,551
    Likes Received:
    53,774
    Location:
    The barber's chair
     
  37. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    5,616
    Location:
    Sydney
    You can't expect to open a topic and then cry 'WTF' and 'Why are you interested'. You didn't just quote a name, you said "What's he trying to hide". At least be consistent
     
  38. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    What's your interest?
     
  39. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    49,321
    Likes Received:
    18,411
    Location:
    Perth
    Does it matter? No more important than my interest in the topic.
     
    Homer likes this.
  40. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,420
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    Back to the fire for a moment. Taking a break after the change. We have been watching the fire burn SE most of the day with visible flames and then on the change it turned on us. Some burnt leaves falling but not alight. We actually managed to get some CFA resources but if it gets hairy then they will be called back. The sky is yellow now but quite black an hour ago. I think the change may have been beneficial for some but now it will zig zag its way so my expectation is for us to be on alert for some time. It has now reached open grazing land. The menu for the next week is looking rather bland. Need to shop.
     
  41. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Thank you :)
    Best of luck. Can't believe you're still going through this! :(
     
    DiscoStuAU likes this.
  42. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,720
    Likes Received:
    10,340
    Location:
    Bonbeach, Vic
    Reread Verms subtle statement....
     
  43. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    42,732
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    I don't want to discuss it. It's derailing the thread. I saw what Verm said.(and understood what he was saying without saying it :))
     
    The Plowking likes this.
  44. Sean G

    Sean G Early Days

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2019
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    71
    This is.... unfortunate news, if true.
     
  45. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,470
    Likes Received:
    41,680
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    The cynic in me is coming up with all sorts of sad conclusions here.......
     
  46. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,420
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    Interesting afternoon. The CFA stood guard and watched the fire come out of the trees. Mick Batty pointed out some spot fires and suggested the CFA get onto them. 'No, can't do. Have to stay here and watch'. 'Can you give me 200 litres for my spray tank' 'No, can't do that. Ask the bloke in the big truck'. 'Can you give me 200 ltrs for the spray unit' 'No can't do that. Need that water in case the fire comes down'. 'Do you have a quick fill pump at the creek' ' No, don't want to have one there in case we have to get out quick' Mick came here and we gave him water then we followed down later. Once he went up to the fire the CFA slip on's followed. All swing into gear now. Soon after that the CFA all pulled out. 'We have been released' I was told. 'There will be a couple of DELWP blokes around for the night' Haven't seen them. Perfect opportunity to get around the fire edge just now but it was knock off time and a 2hr drive back to base. I have been telling them what would happen with this fire for more than a week and nothing. Tomorrow the dozer will come out and we will watch lots of people in green and yellow overalls standing around with arms folded.
     
    Jacko4650 and dossa5 like this.
  47. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    11,568
    Likes Received:
    3,924
    Location:
    Northern Beaches
    Sad if true.
     
    Claude Cat and currawong like this.
  48. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    11,568
    Likes Received:
    3,924
    Location:
    Northern Beaches
    ****.
     
  49. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,420
    Likes Received:
    2,409
    There does not appear to be a fire on the mountain itself just now but it is flanked. I would not be surprised if the crews were pulled out. One road in and the same road out policy means no escape for crews. Funny though that Hotham and Falls Creek have only one road through.
     
    cqen2l likes this.
  50. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    31,977
    Likes Received:
    15,714
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley