Bushfire Gippsland, NE Victoria & Alpine Fires

Discussion in 'Systems & Events' started by Ubiquitous Steve, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    From what I heard in an interview with those in charge of the seed bank recently, they need around 20 tonnes of seed but the funding from government was way short and they only have 20% of what is required.
     
    Tanuki likes this.
  2. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    We stayed overnight back in October at Lakes Entrance. Many shops and a whole arcade was empty. It was already feeling the pinch. January is the school holiday period and when people take their annual holidays. It is really symbolic of the whole country just tour around some NSW country towns - shops closed everywhere.
     
    dawooduck and Tanuki like this.
  3. Rabid K9

    Rabid K9 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,915
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    Logistically collecting seed from species like delegatensis is challenging, at the very least.

    Difficult enough restoring ecology on quantifiable sites like mining operations, old settlements etc.

    Regionally....
     
    Tanuki likes this.
  4. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    34,008
    Likes Received:
    19,535
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    some areas, maybe not all.
     
  5. Rabid K9

    Rabid K9 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,915
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    Alternatives?

    Let 'nature' take it's course?

    20 year reproductive cycle is fairly quick for obligate seeders.
     
  6. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW

    My point is that the people who are effected are affected. But end of the world claims abound on the internet from people that are not effected and these folk spread a message of doom to the world that is the root cause of much of the economic loss - no tourism. The best message we could send is that the danger has passed in MOST locations and that most of the usual tourist hotspots are open for business and most still just as enjoyable as any other time of year.

    Think back to discussion of a couple of weeks back where international ourists were cancelling trip all over the place because google maps infographic shows the whole eastern half of Australia on fire.
     
    Big_Red_60 likes this.
  7. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW

    Lets see what happens. I don't pretend to know. I don't pretend we can geoengineer back the ld veg. If you believe in climate change then things will change from here on. No point fighting it other than to shift to cleaner energy forms in a controlled fashion.
     
    Big_Red_60 and Tanuki like this.
  8. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    The danger has passed in many locations. The idea of holidaying in a town with burnt buildings and no greeenery is less appealing for many people.
    I think the Princes between Mallacoota and Eden hasonly just opend on the Vic side, and has been under escort for a while. These are not 'just bad news' impacts.
    I'm not surprised people cancelled holidays. Air quality was very very poor and fire danger high. It's hardly appealing, and there's not much sensationalism in reporting it as fact.
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  9. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    This is the current map in NSW where the fires are still active
     
  10. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW

    Just about everywhere else in Australia is open for business. To the north of SYdney, QLD, Barrier reef, the centre, WA, most of SA and VIC etc.. So many places you can go where you will see zero fire impact. Not to mention dust storm tourism is go inland also!

    And Vandans - suggest you go for a drive. Whilst the gospers Mt fire is marked on that map its all but out. Not technically out and not zero risk of flare up, but out in terms of what you will expericen when travelling near this area. What happens when people become too reliant on app based information is that they switch thier brain off. Yesterday local radio was saying town of Mudgee is hurting because people think the Castlereagh Highway is closed. It was closed for about 2 days around xmas time. There is bugger all evidence of fire along the whole route.
     
    Adaminaby Angler and Wally like this.
  11. Wally

    Wally One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    634
    Location:
    Franga
  12. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    not everywhere else is a two to four hour drive from 10m people.
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  13. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Wally likes this.
  14. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    And also, I'm bang out of holidays. As are most of the 10m people in Sydney and Melbun.
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  15. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW
    What about internationals. Cancelling becuase the media shows all the bad bits.

    Droughts and dry rivers, fire there's no difference. Focus on the bad bits and let everyone think the whole lot is bad.
     
  16. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Well, everything from Sydney tonearly Bairnsdale, west to the Snowies, the upper Blueys and the Far North Coast. Other than that, the holiday areas are open for busines... just a tad charred. Parks aren't at all repoened
     
    dawooduck likes this.
  17. mick chopps

    mick chopps Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    74,554
    Likes Received:
    57,130
    Location:
    The barber's chair
    Being that China is by far our biggest tourism market, is it such a bad thing they’re not flocking here in their droves right now?
     
    cold wombat, currawong and Wally like this.
  18. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,160
    Likes Received:
    2,831
    Location:
    geelong
    Having previously owned an accommodation business on the south coast of NSW (Narooma), I can assure you that one Christmas to end of January's loss of income due to real or perceived fire danger would send many businesses to the wall. It's the peak time of the year. I feel for them.
     
  19. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    44,548
    Likes Received:
    13,313
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    In Vic, it's the same as in NSW - very low tourism anywhere - fire affected or not. Thing is you can go west or north from Melbs and you'd be very unlucky to come across any ground that was burnt. Same with going east, so long as you don't go too far. But tourists have stayed away in droves for the month of January.
     
  20. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Yes.
    This will still be a challenge for fire affected areas and surrounds for some years.
    Charred landscapes and destruction and loss of strucutres is, bizarrely, a turn-off for tourism.
     
  21. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    34,008
    Likes Received:
    19,535
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    we were away for a week, getting home yesterday so we don't have 1st hand knowledge. we've heard though that mt beauty was pretty busy on the weekend with the caravan park looking quite full.
     
  22. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    My understanding is that everywhere is very negativly affected.
     
    teckel likes this.
  23. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    44,548
    Likes Received:
    13,313
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    The long weekend was good. The rest of January, abysmal right through Vic, as far as I know.
    February is always a shocker.
    So all the rural & regional areas will now have to wait until the March long weekend, then Easter and Anzac Day.​
     
    currawong likes this.
  24. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,998
    Likes Received:
    6,423
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The Baw Baw area is not burnt , it is beautiful, it is not THAT far from Melbourne and it needs visitors.
     
    Charlie likes this.
  25. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    44,548
    Likes Received:
    13,313
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    That's the point. Most areas of Vic aren't burnt, but all of them need visitors.
     
    currawong likes this.
  26. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    WHat's the LWE in Vic in March? We don't have one then in NSW :(
     
  27. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    44,548
    Likes Received:
    13,313
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Labour Day or something. LOL
    9th March.
     
  28. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,172
    Likes Received:
    29,141
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Ahh - yeah we have that early Oct.
     
  29. Onlybackscratchers

    Onlybackscratchers One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    2,610
    Bright was probably half expected capacity over the long weekend. Was able to choose from a large range of accommodation options when I booked Wednesday last week. The cancellation of the Alpine Classic with over 2000 participants wouldn't have helped.
    Still Porpunkah Pub was booked out Sunday night.

    Omeo looked like a ghost town on the way home. Ironically my son made the observation that it's the greenest he has ever seen the Omeo/Swifts Creek area.
     
    #1629 Onlybackscratchers, Jan 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
    currawong likes this.
  30. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,160
    Likes Received:
    2,831
    Location:
    geelong
    Unfortunately in the aftermath there can be a disproportionate number of rubber neckers rather than people genuinely trying to give a boost to the local economy.
     
    teckel likes this.
  31. TheFake

    TheFake One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    709
    I'd be heading out tomorrow to the Mansfield area if they would actually reopen (non fire affected areas within) Alpine National Park.
    You can basically stay at Sheepyard Flat and nowhere else.
     
  32. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,763
    Likes Received:
    9,274
    Location:
    Kenthurst / Jindabyne
    Well there is over 1,000,000,000 of them. So far around 1,000 cases of corona virus, so that means at least 999,999,000 of them with no virus (at this stage). Just like people overseas don’t understand that the fires aren’t everywhere in Oz, the media seem ignorant to the fact that there are 100’s of millions living in provinces 1000kms away from the epicentre, with no cases in the local area. Not really any different for those people to come here than someone from Vietnam really, thats just as close.

    Sorry for the off topic, but it is kind of relevant. Similar media biases in coverage etc
     
    7wombathead likes this.
  33. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    2,971
    Ignore maps like these. They don't show were fires are burning as much as where they have burnt and the burn is quite arbitrary. Sure the fire may be active but it is not over the entire area blacked out. I am looking at plenty of green just now in an area which is supposed to be (according to information like this) completely destroyed.
     
    Vermillion, Tanuki, Wally and 3 others like this.
  34. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    34,008
    Likes Received:
    19,535
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    agree with your main point, but the danger is heightened though if travellers are going through intermediate airports and mixing with passengers and crew who may have been closer to the effected areas.
     
    mick chopps likes this.
  35. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW

    This is my point. Having driven around limited bits of the burnt areas my intial impression was that the burnt bits were not that obvious and not that bad and would quickly recover and look almost normal in a short period.

    The media picks the worst bits of everything to show on TV. The totally scorched bit of forest, the buildings that were destroyed. Rarely do they show the best bits. Its the same with reporting of drought and dry rivers. They came out to Dubbo a few months before xmas and they had real trouble getting footage because our river looks great in town and the well managed farmland was totally nude with all but dead livestock hanging on. Think they used file footage of that stuff. Can always show dry river bed on the lower Darling. Don't want to show nice healthy looking bits of the MDB that make up 80% of it. Focus on the dried out bit in the desert.
     
    Adaminaby Angler and Big_Red_60 like this.
  36. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    Then you had better not drive down Clyde Mountain or take the road over Kiandra Cabramurra then, just a silly comment. These snow gums are history already recovering from 2003 . Take a reality check before you state rubbish
     
    7wombathead likes this.
  37. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    6,998
    Likes Received:
    6,423
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Mt.Stirling is open and that includes : Craig's hut ;The Circuit Road; The Razorback huts; the summit area and The Cricket Pitch camping area.
     
  38. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    33,096
    Likes Received:
    29,884
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    The fear is/was that nowhere was/is safe. Fires were popping up all over the place. What stops a fire popping up next to the shack you have booked for your annual couple of weeks?
     
  39. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Messages:
    34,904
    Likes Received:
    4,752
    Location:
    Canberra
    or cutting off your path back, or while part-way there or back.
     
  40. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    2,971
    I was in the storm that started the fires in 2003. The fires pushed me south and going over BHP I saw the land I now call home before it was burnt. I came back after the fire and it was a moonscape and thought it could never recover but was wrong. The snowgums are returning and the landscape looks much like it was before the fire and it was a hot fire. There will be change and businesses will go under but remember also that others have been battling for many more years without fire and still going. Lakes Entrance has been in a state of flux for a while and nothing to do with fires. The Chinese have been buying lots of property there of late and tourist numbers are down. As bad as these fires are, the country has been through it before and we rebuild, recover and move on. Thanks to all those getting the word out that it is safe to return. For many though, the holiday season is over and kids are back at school so that is money lost. A good business can weather a storm, just like a good farm manager can get through a drought. Out of all this I see a greater awareness of the many issues facing regional areas. People in the city are more in touch with what is happening in their holiday destinations and will show their support in the future.
     
  41. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    Messages:
    1,863
    Likes Received:
    3,786
    Location:
    Tooma , NSW
    Map is misleading in some respects ,mainly because people just look and dont read so dont understand what the map is actually saying. Shaded areas arent on fire and as a total never were. I am currently sitting in a place that is surrounded by shaded area , I posted pictures a few days ago of what those shaded areas actually looked like.
     
    Big_Red_60 likes this.
  42. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    The maps are correct and are mapped by aerial surveillance so stop the BS tell that to my friends they would really like to hear that their place is still standing. What planet do you come from
     
  43. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    44,548
    Likes Received:
    13,313
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    I know that kelpie-boy lives in one of those shaded areas (on planet Earth). And his place didn't burn.
    Don't be so rude. Everyone has a different perspective. No one is 100% right or 100% wrong.
     
  44. Onlybackscratchers

    Onlybackscratchers One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    2,610
    Just had a look at the map of the shaded areas on the GAR I travelled on Monday evening. Although reasonably accurate of the outer perimeter of the fires, only about half the area seemed to be burnt in that shaded zone.
     
    currawong likes this.
  45. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    2,971
    Nobody is minimising the loss people have from these fires but Kelpieboy and I Iive in one of the fire affected areas and although the shaded areas is mapped by aircraft, it only indicates an arbitrary area which was fire affected. It is not intended to show that all of the shaded area was burnt but in some areas there may be more burnt than others. And this is the problem with technology. Some things have to be made more simple for people to understand but then we have a situation, like here, where it is misinterpreted. It would be too difficult to show the actual fire damage on a large scale map. You may recall not long ago there was a supposed photo of Australia from outer space and people thought the whole country was burning when it was only showing hotspots collected from satellites as a glow but many believed different. Same thing.

    If the maps were correct then most of East Gippsland is scorched earth and Mallacoota is no more (to use one place as an example). It was hit hard but there were many areas not touched. The same is being said for many other fire affected areas and people who interpret these maps as you have are inhibiting recovery.
     
  46. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    2,971
    And to give another example. If you were to believe the information provided by these sites then you would believe that the fire 500m from my property is still burning as it is listed as not yet under control. The odd bit of smoke every other day but this fire is out.
     
  47. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,071
    Likes Received:
    8,178
    Location:
    Jumped the wall to Mexico
    The maps that only show the black outline and shading are a simplification of all of the data used (not only from aircraft) to show all area affected by fire. That area could be the fire front, areas of active fire, areas where fire has been and is no longer active. Where the fire has burned could be a cool burn of ground matter only, or it could have consumed the entire height of bushland. However, to the layman, looking at the black maps and the media coverage their impression is that it’s all scorched.
     
  48. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    Fran Kelly on ABC Radio National did an outside broadcast from Batemans Bay and amongst one of the locals the Mayor does not share some of the views on this forum that everything is just fine, the state MP says the whole south coast is a disaster area and will takes years to rebuild. I don’t know the full story of East Gippsland but when ABC did a similar broadcast there the comments were about the same. You can not just say that the the CBDs of Orbost , Lakes Entrance Bairnsdale are ok when the areas around them are unaffected, tourists will and should not come as what I heard the term yesterday, disaster tourists.
     
  49. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Messages:
    23,502
    Likes Received:
    17,181
    Location:
    Dubbo NSW
    I never said people were unaffected in towns that had fires within or close to them. I said the majority of Australians are unaffected. Tourism can go on. There are still plenty of places to go if you want o get out of Sydney or Melbourne. There are still plenty of places for international tourists to go. But if we took advice from people like you we'd all be curled up in a ball in the corner of a dark room rocking back and fourth.

    Worrying about things that don't directly affect the worrier seems to be a new sport.
     
    Charlie and Adaminaby Angler like this.
  50. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    63,244
    Likes Received:
    38,163
    Location:
    Mountains
    Fires such as these show the great failing of our fire fighting application .... lack of resources to actually put fires out in a timely manner.
     
    Kelpieboy likes this.