Go Jindabyne

Telezacski

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I guess my feeling is vert is irrelevant - you can't compete with Thredbo/Maydena/Queenstown on vert - so you want the advantages in access, huge existing userbase (which you can hook in to buying Epic passes that work at Perisher in winter!), and an existing trail network.

Specifically I think my idea is that, given commercial bike park trail building on sensitive land costs eleventy zillion dollars per meter, it might be cheaper to build a chairlift for an existing bike park, than build a bike park around an existing chairlift in a national park.

I put this in another thread but there is a group pushing a mtn bike park in Talbingo, 1000m of vert! Stage one is complete and they are moving forward with planning the next stage.
 
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Jacko4650

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Here's something that none have discussed which is cost effective from a construction perspective. Would require some land reclamation or deal with the land owners as it wouldn't interfere too much with their property. It's a trend which is growing globally and one I'm involved with from a work perspective. Cableways.

The longest in the world is in Bolivia which stretches approx 30klm. If you had a choice to ride a cable car from Jindy to Bullocks flat and then to Thredbo would you do it?
Wow. Just looked that up. Fascinating.
 

Telezacski

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Blooody hell, I grew up in Cooma and only remember the rail line in operation up till I was about five.
 
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Dropbear

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The Snowy Mountains Special Activation Precinct had a draft vision document published for exhibition recently, but this appears to have been taken down now that the exhibition period has closed.

Did anyone save a copy of the draft vision PDF please? Can you share a link to this document here please? I'm interested to read about where they're at with their thinking.

https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/snowymountains
 

skichanger

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The Snowy Mountains Special Activation Precinct had a draft vision document published for exhibition recently, but this appears to have been taken down now that the exhibition period has closed.

Did anyone save a copy of the draft vision PDF please? Can you share a link to this document here please? I'm interested to read about where they're at with their thinking.

https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/snowymountains
Your best bet is @Telemark Phat
 

Billy_Buttons

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The Snowy Mountains Special Activation Precinct had a draft vision document published for exhibition recently, but this appears to have been taken down now that the exhibition period has closed.

Did anyone save a copy of the draft vision PDF please? Can you share a link to this document here please? I'm interested to read about where they're at with their thinking.

https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/snowymountains
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/-/m...-Jindabyne-Community-Statement-2019-04-16.pdf

https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/-/m...tion-Precinct-fact-sheet-2020-07-03.pdf?la=en
 

Dropbear

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Yes, I did see those, but sorry, they're not it... The Community Statement is a compilation of some engagement they have done for Go Jindabyne (before the SAP process started), and the Fact Sheet for the SAP doesn't really say much.

The Draft Vision for the SAP should be a document that explains their ideas for the whole Jindabyne region. Has anyone seen it please?
 
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Billy_Buttons

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Yes, I did see those, but sorry, they're not it... The Community Statement is a compilation of some engagement they have done for Go Jindabyne (before the SAP process started), and the Fact Sheet for the SAP doesn't really say much.

The Draft Vision for the SAP should be a document that explains their ideas for the whole Jindabyne region. Has anyone seen it please?
The Community Statement is the results of the questionnaire that was put to the residents in town. Are you after the questionnaire?

There is this one...
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/-/m...y-and-Connectivity-Study-2020-03-03.pdf?la=en
 
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snowgum

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I've been completely out of the loop with Go Jindabyne.

Sounds like adding a thousand beds or so wouldn’t go astray? Especially at the affordable end.

A resort without sufficient accommodation doesn’t work so well. A ‘nice’ problem to have though.

Then again - where do all the hordes find space to ski? Backcountry?
 

BlueHue

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Sounds like adding a thousand beds or so wouldn’t go astray? Especially at the affordable end.

A resort without sufficient accommodation doesn’t work so well. A ‘nice’ problem to have though.

Then again - where do all the hordes find space to ski? Backcountry?
Expand the ski resort..........
 
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snowgum

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The plan mentions improved access.

A absolute no-brainer is improved bus connections between Jindabyne and the resorts in winter.

So frequent, reliable, comfortable, affordable vs. driving, and decent span across the day.

Its a total cop out for SM tourism, shire, NSW Govt and the resorts not to provide decent bus connections, helping to create the road and parking congestion we see most years.

Just do it and stop milking the punters!
 

Chookfooter

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The plan mentions improved access.

A absolute no-brainer is improved bus connections between Jindabyne and the resorts in winter.

So frequent, reliable, comfortable, affordable vs. driving, and decent span across the day.

Its a total cop out for SM tourism, shire, NSW Govt and the resorts not to provide decent bus connections, helping to create the road and parking congestion we see most years.

Just do it and stop milking the punters!
And who do you suggest pays for it?
 

snowgum

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And who do you suggest pays for it?

Well ultimately the punter will - if (a big if) the the right price is selected. But it won’t hurt to have a degree of public funding. A % will be returned by people not giving up on the region (for poor access) and going overseas.

The big problem in Australia, we only care deeply about the cost of transport when it’s Public transport. When it’s private, ie. by building roads, adding lanes and extending car parks, we seem not to be so bothered. This distorts the market. We make it impossible for PT to compete, which is unfortunate, as there’s usually better health, liability and environmental outcomes when using PT.

I’m not anti-car. In fact I love my car and drive to our resorts - usually Vic, NSW mostly Xmas these days.

But having travelled around NZ fields over ~ 15 years, Nth Am in late 80s and Japan (Hakuba) this year, I’ve seen the difference good bus services can make when accessing ski fields.

Having looked at the Bus TT and services on offer this year, I’m not convinced they’re currently a great alternative to driving. But this could change, hopefully with better planning and funding it will.

I’m also sure that some here will say the best thing to do is spend a few hundred million on roads (Only) - Monaro & Alpine Way and forget about buses. To me that’s short sighted and it’s time to plan for increased visitation levels. (Vic too although less urgent it seems).
 
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snowgum

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Go to Salt Lake City or Aspen or Jackson or any number of other places to see snow infrastructure serviced by PT free or at low cost.

We don’t really get PT here in Oz, especially in regional towns. But to fair, SLC is a city with city-type planning.

Now I haven’t visited Aspen and Jackson (Missed them on my Greyhound Bus winter trip 88/89’ which took me to Winter Park, Banff & co.) but Nth American resorts seem to run on on a season-model, as does Queenstown and Wanaka, NZ, which helps to justify and fund bus services.

Our 3 month (sometimes 4) crazy rush, then a mass exodus, discourages bus planning and indeed many facilities. And so you get by default the car mess we see.

But noting Telemark Phat’s poo farm and entry fee issues, it sounds like it will need some wise heads to devise a workable, affordable solution? So how likely is this?:rolleyes:
 

skichanger

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My immediate reaction to the park entry funding the sewage farm is that the model is flawed. Ski tube season pass, same price for cars regardless of whether they have 1 or more occupant, single trip cost for peopke staying up there and then a per head cost for bus occupants, how does that make any sense?


most people have no idea about just how much car travel is indirectly subsidized. Until we compare the various forms of transport properly the car will always win.

As for Japan, in brief: Hakuba is different to most places. I think the shuttles are funded by the resorts, just like Thredbo does but on a different scale. Mt Myoko used to have a free shuttle but now it costs and is a worse service. Many lodges take you to the lifts. Often there are good transport options to the resorts or your accommodation not available in Aus, e.g At Chalet Madarao It takes a bit over 2 hours from Tokyo by train then bus or taxi. You have almost traveled across Japan. We have nothing that compares with that.
 
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Dropbear

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The Community Statement is the results of the questionnaire that was put to the residents in town. Are you after the questionnaire?

There is this one...
https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/-/m...y-and-Connectivity-Study-2020-03-03.pdf?la=en

Thanks Billy, I haven't seen that, and it's very interesting. For other's benefit, it suggests that there isn't a market for public transport while the cost of driving and parking at the ski resorts is comparatively low.

...But it's not what I'm looking for, sorry.

My understanding is that Planning did a fair amount of early stage work on the Go Jindabyne Master Plan, and the overwhelming feedback was that their study area (Jindabyne and surrounds) was too small, and that the master planning effort needed to extend over the whole region if it was to address these regionally interconnected issue.

However, changing from town to regional scale would probably have effectively superseded all the Go Jindabyne work, because everything would need to be reviewed with the bigger scale of the project in mind.

So with the SAP website stating that they've released a draft vision document, I'm hoping that somebody might have saved a copy of it? This document would have the NSW "SAP" branding on it, not the "Go" branding.
 

CarveMan

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Go to Salt Lake City or Aspen or Jackson or any number of other places to see snow infrastructure serviced by PT free or at low cost.
I’d be interested in finding a major overseas ski resort that doesn’t have at least a reasonable PT service. In France it’s generally funded by a tourist tax on accommodation - it’s added to your bill, and you get a Carte d’Hôte from the hotel/apartment to get you on the bus for free. Technically the bus is paid but in practice they never check. They do on the train though.
 
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Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

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Fair enough. My frustration with aerial trams began with epic waits for the one at Zakopane in the Tatra Mountains on the Polish - Slovak border. Over 15 minutes between cabins and then several minutes to load and unload meant a very long time in a queue that barely moved.

Having the human equivalent of a sheep dog to push people in quickly and bite the ankles of tardy people might speed things up a bit, but I've never seen an aerial tram / cable car that loaded and unloaded quickly.

kasprowy+wierch+cable+car
Kasprowy Wierch cable car at Zakopane
is that any worse than waiting for skitube?
I recall Campitello to Col Rodella was 160 people every 30 minutes
 

Billy_Buttons

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Thanks Billy, I haven't seen that, and it's very interesting. For other's benefit, it suggests that there isn't a market for public transport while the cost of driving and parking at the ski resorts is comparatively low.

...But it's not what I'm looking for, sorry.

My understanding is that Planning did a fair amount of early stage work on the Go Jindabyne Master Plan, and the overwhelming feedback was that their study area (Jindabyne and surrounds) was too small, and that the master planning effort needed to extend over the whole region if it was to address these regionally interconnected issue.

However, changing from town to regional scale would probably have effectively superseded all the Go Jindabyne work, because everything would need to be reviewed with the bigger scale of the project in mind.

So with the SAP website stating that they've released a draft vision document, I'm hoping that somebody might have saved a copy of it? This document would have the NSW "SAP" branding on it, not the "Go" branding.
Lots of big pdf's in this one... https://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Pla...-Activation-Precinct/Go-Jindabyne-Master-Plan
 

Dropbear

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Practically speaking, I'm sure much of these Go Jindabyne reports would stay current for the SAP project, albeit with updates wherever necessary based on the wider regional scope now. Thanks for sharing, Billy.

Still keen to see the SAP Vision Draft document, in case anyone still has it? Otherwise we'll have to wait for the final version to be published...
 

Billy_Buttons

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Practically speaking, I'm sure much of these Go Jindabyne reports would stay current for the SAP project, albeit with updates wherever necessary based on the wider regional scope now. Thanks for sharing, Billy.

Still keen to see the SAP Vision Draft document, in case anyone still has it? Otherwise we'll have to wait for the final version to be published...
Maybe contact Snowy Mountains Magazine...they may have it.
https://snowymagazine.com.au/2019/02/23/70-million-for-jindabyne-infrastructure/
 
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