Going lighter

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by legend, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. legend

    legend One of Us

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    After reading a number of interesting debates on gear weights and what is right or wrong, I thought it time to offer some of my opinions.
    I'm a bloke in his '60s, bushwalking since '72, skiing since '73 and over this time have done over led over 700 trips with my club and been on thousand trips in NZ, and every state in Aus.
    I believe there is no right or wrong, BUT in my opinion lighter is much better for your body. The number of people I am seeing with knee reconstructions and hip replacements is staggering but all those I have spoken too have all said "... if we could have known what these weights did to us when young we would have changed ..."
    I'm a bloke in his '60s, bushwalking since '72, skiing since '73 and over this time have done over led over 700 trips with my club and been on thousand trips in NZ, and every state in Aus.
    After a car crash, I had to give up skiing, but still go bushwalking. My pack weight has been reduced from 20 - 30 Kg to 17Kg (including snowshoes) for an 8 day winter Overland Track walk (3 person tent included for emergencies).

    Since the '70s, technology has seen some amazing improvements in gear, Paddy Pallin tents were the norm as were H Frame steel and later aluminium packs. I remember when closed-cell foam revolutionised sleeping on the ground.
    The newly designed European and British lightweight tents and internal packs arrived (many of us were very sceptical about the condensation and comfort of them, but over the years we all converted to them). Later Macpac (NZ) took the reigns and kept up the more traditional canvas but new deigns, but also gave the world a run with their innovative tents. Some of us were also beginning to import stuff from the USA, new designs (heavier but stronger) in tents and packs.

    Recent advaces in technology have seen some amazing new pack fabrics out there, many are more tear and wear resistant than the traditional canvas pack and weigh two or more kilos lighter (between 0.8 - 1.4 Kg). They carry comfortably 18 kg but unfortunately are only available overseas.
    There are a number of innovative sleeping bags too - keeping you warm to -5ºC and weighing only 600gm.
    Tents have also changed with these technologies. Sil Nylon has been around for a few years now and revolutionised tent weights. Many 2 person tents are around the Kg mark or slightly heavier. More recently Cuben Fibre has been discovered (taken from the sailing fraternity). This is an amazing material and I challenge anyone to rip/tear it. It's made 2 and 3 person tents to around 600Gm, but warning - it is extremely expensive.

    If you want to know more, please pm me.
     
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  2. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    So here is a question.

    You pack food.

    You pack a poo tube.

    Is your pack lighter, heavier, or the same at the end of the trip?
     
  3. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture
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    Ooh an existentialist question!

    Do you save the last poo for the dunny at the exit?
     
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  4. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Well, its likely that you would be eating Backcountry meals, which are much lighter before you add the water.....saving the last poo is an obvious tactic!
     
  5. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture
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    Given poo is 75% water im thinking you are leaving heavier

    I guess you could pack an e-poo-dehydrator but the batteries are a killer
     
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  6. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    On cuben (now has some different name as ownership has changed; dyneema something) the lighter versions of it are strong from a tear perspective but I find it can wear / abrade a bit more quickly.

    I’m very interested in The additionally layered versions which HMG use for their packs after some resounding endorsements by folks whose adventures I find astounding and very tough.
     
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  7. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    An amount of the mass of the food will have been converted to energy and will escape the poo tube.
     
  8. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us
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    No it won't.
     
  9. art

    art Addicted

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    Nope. Mass is conserved we just extract chemical energy.
    Might breath out a bit of mass as Co2 and obviously water is going in and out as well as food.
     
  10. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    E = mCsquared suggests very little mass is lost.
     
  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
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    QED
     
  12. art

    art Addicted

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    I've been looking at light tents lately and the sticker shock is large particularly for DCF.

    I've got a big Agnes tiger wall 3 person here to have a look at and it's amazing what they can do with Silnylon for the weight (1.3kg with everything you need) and price ($520 on sale). I am worried about how long it will last though, particularly the floor.

    Another trick is that the 600g DCF tents like mentioned in the OP don't include poles, pegs or sometimes bugnet. I don't walk with poles and mozzies eat me so the weight in practice is a bit higher.
     
    #12 art, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  13. bluestick

    bluestick One of Us
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    just got the tarptent li 2 person interesting to see how it goes, its certainly light . Cost a bit though $1000 AU. liking lighter stuff as i get older.
     
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  14. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Quite a few in my club are using Tarptents now and have had them for several years. There appears to be little evidence of the silnylon material going brittle (unlike other nylon tents that have a life span of a little over five years).
    By the way, my average tent lasts for 3-4 years before I sell it - still in good condition but I love trying out new gear - and giving others a cheaper way of going lighter. My old MacPac Olympus was 8 years old when I had to give it up. The nylon was completely perished and not fit for use in the mountains.
     
  15. Ubiquitous Steve

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    On Team Bears last clearing foray along half of Longspur ....we had a 1.5 literwater bottle but we ditched the axe but carried the plastic wedge just in case of a bar jamb.But we would not like to leave our axe out on all trips.

    Rocked in to Vic Rds (Omeo side) Mitta Rest stop at 3am on the Sunday morning after sorting Toms Hut out!

    Then hauled inflatable mat,sleeping bag and old coat (pillow) out of truck and slept soundly on picnic table!!
     
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  16. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    One of my mates has a tarptent, they are impressive. He had a pole snap in a storm, they sent him another, while he was bike packing, he was impressed with the service.
     
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  17. SMSkier

    SMSkier One of Us
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    I’m off to the Mont sale in the morning. After the Moondance 2FN. 2 person, lightweight... any views?
     
  18. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    I have the first model Moondance 1, which only came as a 3 season. Pretty bomber though, I like it. I think the new ones are 4 season, and lighter, with a bit more room inside too.
     
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  19. ecowain

    ecowain One of Us
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    Anyone else going to the Mont sale tomorrow? And happens to be visiting the blueys soon? @Untele-whippet going MTBing?
     
  20. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    I use the Firefly. It has a 70 Denier tub- the Moondance tub is 40 denier .
     
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  21. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    I have a footprint with my Moondance, which you can also use to pitch without the inner.
     
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  22. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    When is the sale?
    Might go for MTB for the opening w/e 17/18th maybe.
    What you after, haven’t you got enough gear?
     
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  23. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    Wouldnt mind one of those Moondog jackets. Primaloft with Pertex Endurance shell. :thumbs:
     
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  24. ecowain

    ecowain One of Us
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    As if... anyways, was thinking of getting a new tent for dad.

    Tomorrow onwards I believe.
     
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  25. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    I have one.
    Quite nice.
     
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  26. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I bought a 2 person 3 seasons tent from TECKEL this week . It weighs 2.5 kilos in total, a SALEWA MICRA 2. I think that is possibly as much as 2 kilos lighter than my W.E. snow tent with the snow pegs etc.
     
  27. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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  28. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    On ya! Enjoy. Salewa make great tents ... my 3 person Sierra Leone has had a beating and is in its 15th year, albeit with a bit of reconditioning....
     
  29. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Absolutely awesome tent.
     
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  30. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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  31. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty!
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  32. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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  33. legend

    legend One of Us

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    You can lose 5Kg or more by just looking at the three main items - pack, tent, sleeping bag. No need to drill holes in your toothbrush (saving maybe 5 gms). Many more big things out there that will reduce your total weight too (clothes, rain gear, cooking stuff, etc).
    ... and what's more..
    you can do this in real comfort and no suffering
     
  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Beware PHDs half bags if you are tall, they are only 1200/1250mm long, even 1350mm is a bit short for people hitting 184 cms tall, I like 1500mm for my elephants foot bags
     
  35. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I need a long duck down sleeping bag to keep me warm in all seasons in the Oz Alps. Taking a lighter " summer sleeping bag" has led me to become caught out in very cold nights in Green season.
     
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  36. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    A biv aint a biv unless you need to keep your harness on ;)
     
  37. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty!
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    :eek:
     
  38. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Have a look at the ZPacks bags: they tend to be quilts but very warm for their weight
    http://www.zpacks.com/quilts.shtml