Goodbye Kingpin hello Tecton - You win.

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by DPS Driver, Dec 20, 2016.

  1. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    Hi all,

    Here is a considerably better hybrid touring binding than the Kingpin.

    I was never a fan of the pin tech heel as in my view it compromised safe release, not so much in it's own right but when partnered with a pin tech toe. That's why I was so excited to see Marker come out with the Kingpin.

    Well now there is a new player on the block and it knocks the Kingpin out of the park. It's lighter, it's a better toe release and retention set up with a solid heel piece. This will be the new binding on my latest pair of Touring skis. Well done Fritschi.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/21378/fritschi-ski-touring-evo-tecton-vipec/#comment-79303
     
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  2. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel Active Member

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    Looks good, doesn't it? Better than a Kingpin at less weight than a G3 Ion or Radical 2.0.

    The ingenious thing about the design is how the heel insert in utilised. Very impressive!

    There will still be some of us who run lighter setups, but for most people touring this is the holy grail of tech bindings - reliable release, heel pressure and elasticity, all for just over 500g.

    Just have to wait a year or so for them to become available...
     
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  3. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Dedicated Member

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    LOL.... was about to link that WildSnow article.. does look good and may get Vipec as next binding unless Tecton is released by then as....... mounting patters are identical making for easy upgrades. Had often wondered why on one developed a tech toe piece with an alpine heel piece........
     
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  4. sbm

    sbm Dedicated Member
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    Good stuff.

    Without true DIN alpine heels on your boots though, is the heel release of the Kingpin/Tecton really that much more precise than a traditional pintech heel? Not an issue if you're buying boots and binding all at once, but the selection of boots with both tech fittings and DIN alpine tabs was surprisingly narrow last time I checked - not to say that it's small, there's a selection, but it's something to be careful of (TLTs in particular)

    I definitely can see the traditional pintech heel being on the way out - the weight weenies will start using rando race bindings with a minimal non-adjustable heel more, and for general use everyone else goes a Kingpin/Tecton hybrid style.
     
  5. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Should go great in the US market.

    I guess in Europe people will continue to ski Elbrus and Mint Blanc on race tech bindings weighing 37 grams or something.
     
  6. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    Fritschi have a good following in Europe and being a Swiss company the Euro's will more readily adopt their product than if it were a US company.
     
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  7. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    I'd say the tecton, like the kingpin will steal more share from the old frame binding market and of course the new market which buys touring gear but no skins.

    The bulk of people doing a lot of walking will continue to buy bindings which are better suited to 99% of their BC day.
     
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  8. Slowman

    Slowman Active Member

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    These do look good. Lisa Dawson has added a note to the Wildsnow article explaining that the bindings are 550g and the brake adds another 80g. Still a very good weight/function trade off imo. Having a removable brake is a great feature - as with quiver killer inserts and different brake widths one set of bindings can be all you need for a quiver of skis. Autumn 2017 release for North America. I wonder if they will distribute some here before that?
     
  9. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Our market is too small. I'd be very surprised if Aus stores have them before autumn 2018.
     
  10. piolet

    piolet Old And Crusty
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    Nice
    Happy with my TLTs for now but they'd have to be a consideration for a future rig, maybe dual purpose.
     
  11. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Part of the Furniture
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    Also how days have changed. People used to complain about how heavy telemark bindings are, yet my excellent skiing BC bindings are 150g lighter than these and their brake is 50g rather than 80g.

    Shame about the weight of Tele boots though.
     
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  12. Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member
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    Agree. Its still a slackcountry binding. Probably good for the European market. The removable binding aint a big enough deal as a selling point imo. Still a 2 quiver market but brands like ATK and Plum might edge closer.
     
  13. piolet

    piolet Old And Crusty
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    So the king pin is to get a lightweight version? Hmmm
     
  14. Kletterer

    Kletterer Addicted Member
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    They could start by sizing down the overkill brake/ramp setup.
     
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  15. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    Depends on the focus though doesn't it.

    If the focus is uphill and walking then yeah go full lightweight Dynafit but if your focus is enjoy the up but live for the down, then the application is sweet.

    Also have a lot of friends, myself included who've been on AT gear for many years and suffered knee injuries through non release or pre- release of touring bindings and that's the genesis of this type of binding.

    As for buying AT gear without skins, well.....
     
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  16. rols

    rols Active Member

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    Any chance of sharing what type of knee injury ocurred with what boot binding combo?
     
  17. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    Mine was a non surgical medial with Garmont boot and Dynafit Radical ST binding.

    Friends a myriad of anterior cruciate (ACL), meniscus tears, medial ligaments and one mate did the whole shooting match. Again a mix of boot binding set up but all tech bindings with no release.
     
  18. sbm

    sbm Dedicated Member
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    That sucks DPS. I'll definitely be looking at the Tecton for my next binding.

    Besides accidental pre-release due to snow buildup under the toe, I think I've only ever had a tech binding release vertically during a faceplant (which is apparently 90% of my crashes). I'm fortunate to have not had a major crash requiring sideways release for a while.

    A few years ago, we made some snowlerblades out of old kids skis and bindings for fun, and those babies had a maximum DIN value of two. TWO. If you got unbalanced at all, you would step out. But, it was surprising how much skiing you could actually do, if you were perfectly centered! I managed to slide boxes at the beginner terrain park (sideways, proper style) and do some small jumps.

    I would go so far as to say most people have their release value set too high. Certainly friends on rental gear have had release failures more often than not.
     
  19. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    Actually sbm, that forward twisting motion is the one that seems to cause most issues with standard tech bindings.

    I should say that I'm still happy to ski a tech binding. When you look at the miles covered in relation to the accidents and injuries, they're not that bad but I believe their is design progression happening which is making them better. The two major areas I have issues with are the heel hold purely from a feel perspective and the toe release relative to forward twisting accidents. These are the two areas Fritschi have made significant progress.

    If I'm skiing a standard tech set up I'll take it easy on the down and just cruise. That's really what they're made for.
     
  20. Any

    Any Well-Known Member

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    wow I didnt know these even existed.
    the article hints at 2017/18 season, I cant find any for sale yet tho. seems like they might be cutting it pretty close?
     
  21. rols

    rols Active Member

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    Thanks. I'm curious about the relative safety of touring bindings that release laterally at the toe like vipec (which I'm skiing at the moment) compared to dynafit style heels that release laterally at the heel. In theory the biomechanics indicate that the toe lateral release is better at limiting direct torsional loading on the leg, whereas the heel lateral release (like dynafit heel) should reduce the risk of ACL injury.
    Anecdotal evidence still seems to show people injuring ACL's sking dynafits, but I wonder how much other factors contribute to this, correct release setting, pin fitting wear, pin fitting width, incorrect heel gap, boot height/stiffness, individual biomechics etc.
    Seems like a bit of a lottery at the moment as to what binding type is safer to choose.
     
  22. Slowman

    Slowman Active Member

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    You might consider the Dynafit bindings which have a small amount of lateral movement at the toe like the Radical ST 2.0. I have been using these and my subjective impression from testing them is that the limited toe piece rotation seems to make the lateral release at the heel a bit smoother in comparison to the models which have a completely fixed toe piece. They weigh a bit more but I am happy with that trade off. Thus far I have not had any release problems - but being an old wimp I ski very conservatively.

    There Is a lot of discussion on the Wildsnow web page about such matters which you might want to browse through.
     
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  23. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    At some point it is going to be better to spend resources (time & money) on skiing better (and making better ski decisions) than on equipment or on more equipment with marginal differences in protection.
     
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  24. rols

    rols Active Member

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    All part of the equation I guess. I skied hundreds of days on non release tele gear with no issue, so probably ski reasonably conservatively. My current view though is that if I can decrease my chance of injury via gear choice, I will, especially if other aspects of performance and cost are similar.
     
  25. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver Dedicated Member

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    When I talk about these injuries it is with full on skiers, guides, pro skiers, semi pro, ski bums & patrol etc, what I would call extremely solid skiers. I think your last line above is the critical piece though, "marginal differences". Tech bindings are relatively safe and in most cases will release when and if needed but not always and there is obviously a margin for error that is wider than an alpine binding.

    I've had many discussions on the topic and ultimately the response comes back "yeah it just didn't release". Which always leads to my next question, how did you fall? Anecdotally, my feedback is forward twisting with heel release but not toe.

    So my thoughts are that it is marginal progression that will cure the problem, be it a perceived problem or not.
     
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  26. Bloke

    Bloke Dedicated Member

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  27. Bloke

    Bloke Dedicated Member

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    TL;DR Alpine bindings more likely to cause knee injuries than tech, but tech more likely to cause tibia fracture. Also, the vertical release in tech bindings tends to be stronger than the numerical setting would indicate. Therefore it is recommended to set vertical release a bit lower than lateral release. Study only looked at binding release. Binding retention is also a key safety factor for tech (i.e. no fall zones)

    These are lab results which, IMO, should be combined with real world experiences to form an overall view.
     
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  28. Any

    Any Well-Known Member

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    so important
    ive found a significant difference between marker and salomon alpine bindings, that are supposedly din rated. unrated tech bindings probably even more important to use real world to test.
    lesson I learned is to set low and gradually increase until "hmm that shouldn't have released" becomes "thank god that ski came off!"
     
  29. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    I fondled a Tecton yesterday.

    Price is high, but I'll order a couple as I think they're a great option.
     
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  30. Any

    Any Well-Known Member

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    ballpark price?
    be interesting to see how they go.
    exactly 100grams lighter than kingpin.
     
  31. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    Around a grand.
     
  32. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Dedicated Member

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    On a pair of DPS light weight goodness and with Atomic Backland Carbon on feet, worth more than my car.........
     
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  33. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    Plenty of people with bikes more than their car!!
     
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  34. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Dedicated Member

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    Already there.... :D
     
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  35. BoofHead

    BoofHead Dedicated Member
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    Goodness Gracious. :confused:
     
  36. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Everything good is 'about a grand'
     
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  37. BoofHead

    BoofHead Dedicated Member
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    Guess I'll be sticking with my old school, outdated, ridiculously heavy KingPins for awhile.
     
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  38. piolet

    piolet Old And Crusty
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    The latest and greatest will cost ya but they'll keep truckin
     
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  39. BoofHead

    BoofHead Dedicated Member
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    I'm happy to wait for new kit to be put through the wringer by the masses and for prices to come down. My KingPins cost $480 delivered from OS. 2nd gen with the dodgy toe pin issue sorted. Boof junior may get them down the track if I eventually upgrade.
     
  40. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    There's no way you would ditch an existing Kingpin for a Tecton.

    But it's another to add in to the mix at decision time.
     
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  41. BoofHead

    BoofHead Dedicated Member
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    They do look impressive