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Green season prep for the 2020 BC season

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Interruptedbyfireworks, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  2. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just lost some whiskey reading this.
     
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  3. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think one posting was enough, no need to quote o_O
     
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  4. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The black diamond collapsible snow shovel can be clipped onto a pack using carabiners. A whippet self arrest ski pole can also be useful for digging through rock hard frozen surfaces to extricate tent snow pegs in white season.
    Somewhere like Mt. Stirling here in Vic. is ideal for taking baby steps with this caper.
    It is lovely in green season. In white season it has a ski patrol and network of huts stocked with firewood. The car park is usually no more than 4 hours away by snow shoes/or skis at the most if you must abort the mission.
     
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  5. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just a bit too far for an overnighter with our OP based in Canberra NSW.
     
  6. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Sleeping bag EN ratings are VERY accurate; with the proviso that you have to know and understand the testing parameters.
    Once you actually understand the testing parameters and how the human metabolism works coupled with a little experience it's easy to pick and choose to make a sleeping system that can keep you warm and comfortable almost anywhere on the face of the planet. You make personal choices based on the number of nights out and your own comfort levels but nobody has ever died simply from carrying a kilo extra in sleeping comfort.
     
  7. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    That is why I mentioned (much earlier in the thread), the Guthega Power station route up to Valentine's hut. There are huts the whole way on an easy to follow formed track.
     
  8. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not in the quoted post.
     
  9. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    yeah but Trangia use a lot more fuel and have no real way of managing heat. I love the capacity to simmer etc on Jet boil.
     
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  10. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    this, I also find it funny how many people rave on about layers of clothing etc etc and then have a single layer sleeping system, I’ve used my silk liner, down blanket and bivy down to minus 8, total system still weight under 1kg compared to my old one planet bag which is almost 2kg.
     
  11. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    This is why I always say "Sleeping System"
    Sleeping comfortably is the sum of all the gear you take with you.
    There are many places that get colder than the minimums recorded at the weather stations but if you basic system is good to -10C with comfort then you should be able to survive even the coldest nights here but I do advise people to look at -18C for winter above the snowline because of frost-hollow effect and fatique
    Which down blanket zac? I have been looking at the S2S Traveller as a warm weather item that could be used as a supplement to my UL system
     
  12. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I go with an ultra light setup down to >-5, its about a kilo (bag and mat). Winter its over 1.5 kilo bag and mat. I maybe could have gotten a higher rated light bag (pertex), but my Telemark is as new, so opted for a gap bag.

    Every kilo you save on gear, is another beer you can carry system.
     
  13. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Less gear, more beer
     
  14. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I had it made for me, I guy in vic makes them. I got his details through a different forum.
     
  15. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Undercling Mike?
    I'd call those a quilt myself Good gear
     
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  16. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    yes and yes, more a quilt and pretty good kit, light and warm.
     
  17. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Might look into a quilt to use in conjunction with an ultra light bag to replace my 30+ year old, approx 2kg and rather bulky Winterlite. It still is a nice bag though!
     
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  18. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  19. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Canberra ACT, not NSW.
     
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  20. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Near enough for my navigation.
     
  21. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    May not be mobile cover out Mulligans Flat way LOL
     
  22. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    She is home!
     
  23. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Possibly scarred?
     
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  24. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    From memory the early Winterlites used 600FP down so a new one should be a little lighter. I tried a quilt for a while but don't like them below 10C so I sold mine on
     
  25. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have an 800gm bag I use for summer, I was thinking of using a quilt over it. Dunno if it would be warm enough especially as I seem to feel the cold more these days.

    You're right about Winterlite weights, I just had a look on the One Planet site and they're a good 600gms lighter.
     
  26. stansi

    stansi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Four Winterlites in our household, all bought over thirty years ago.
    All still serviceable and used.
    Man, did they know how to make a reliable product?
     
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  27. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    So many messages to come back to, I am overwhelmed with the popularity LOL

    I am back and not scarred, just VERY stiff and sore...apparently cycling isn’t good enough fitness preparation for hiking with a pack.

    Trip report to follow!!

    PS @skifree I do technically live in NSW so Canberra NSW sounds right to me :rolleyes:
     
  28. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I have an UL overquilt to give me an extra 10C for use as my LW winter set. It's easy enough to work out how much of a boost an overquilt would be but the catch is they have to be cut much bigger to use as an overquilt. Stansi OP just topped up my Expedition Ultra after 30+ years and still good enough to last at least another decade.
    You have to add 5C for every decade after 35 but even so most of us can still sleep naked at 22 to 24C. So if you have a sleeping bag, quilt or blanket rated at 14C that; used in conjunction with another sleeping bag; adds 10C to the temperature rating
     
  29. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    there is an old saying, the best fitness for hiking is hiking, I agree to an extent, but core strength does help.
     
  30. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pics or it didn't happen!

    Faccie tells me you were geared up... but may have never left that location LOL
     
  31. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ummm yeah, very much not. Or only when combined with other exercise. Cycling in particular does not build strength thru the joint systems, knees in particular but also ankles & hips.

    If cycling is regular like a commute it is good for keeping your metabolic rate up better than not cycling that commute.

    And if you push hard each ride you can improve the heart lung system which is also pretty handy.

    Got stairs at home or work??
     
  32. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Week after week laying large Besser Blocks seems to be working for me.
     
  33. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d say mountain biking is better prep than road cycling, you use knees and hip strength much more. Was just saying today that skiing is not good for keeping up cycling fitness, noticeably decreased after some time off.
     
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  34. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Also gravity riding puts more stress on joints than regular mtb, which is more than road. But they all help with base level.

    @Kletterer manual work does give you a higher base than someone in an office, but as you know.......

    I binned it in my kayak the other week, and found a few muscles I had not used in a while.
     
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  35. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Went on another 7km little hike today for Canberra Day...now I am a puddle of sore glutes on my couch. Send wine.

    Stories and pics and lessons-learned still to come when existing is less challenging...:zzz:
     
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  36. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Cycling is a different kind of fitness. It is not pack carry bushwalking fitness. XC skiing, swimming , surfing and so on are all different sorts of fitness too. Cross training with these activities is beneficial .
     
  37. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

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    Not needed, wide mouthed drinking bottle. Neither my bloke or I (f) bother to get out of the tent, though I do find that the vestibule is probably a safer bet than the sleeping bag. Just to be clear...we don't drink out of that bottle :)
     
  38. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    So I've been back for a few days, and time for my trip report!

    As you all know, on Sat 7th March I was heading off on my first overnight hike to the Northern Border campgrounds in the ACT, and being the over-prepper that I am I had a lovely spreadsheet to track my packing, complete with conditional formatting and highlighting.


    (This is the updated version with some notes regarding things I need to change, but you get the idea)

    Fully packed and loaded, I got a lift to the carpark from Mr Interruptedbyfireworks, where lots of squealing and excited photo taking ensued:





    Then we were off on our adventure - "just over 3km walk in, I'll make this easily" I thought, "I ride 16km to and from work each day, this will be a breeze". Oh how I was wrong. Within about 10mins it was obvious that I would be the slowest in the group, which was not an issue since they were all very patient and inclusive, and my gluteus medius was positively screaming at the 10kg or so additional weight on my hips! "Maybe I should do more walking" I muttered to myself!



    Having made it to our campground, I am pretty certain that we spent longer picking out our desired tent locations than we did walking in (with only a tiny bit of exaggeration there!). We had a gentle slope to contend with, many wombat poos, not a few ant hills and some large holes that housed some very cute (or scary, depending on who you asked) wolf spiders! I decided I preferred to shack up with some spiders overnight instead of ants, and was very pleased to discover that I setup my tent in record time. I used the 3UF lanshan 1person pole-less tent, which is a breeze to setup and super compact in my pack. What's not to love?! The Sea-to-summit ether light XT mat was similarly easy to setup, and I was ready for some wine er some lunch in a jiffy. I did note that I setup my tent 180 degrees out of whack, since the pocket inside ended up at my feet and so did the opening to the tent which made inflating the mat less than ideal, but that's a great thing to remember for next time.



    We lounged around for the next few hours, going on a short walk to admire some tadpoles and some sheep, and once the sun started to hide behind some ominous clouds it was time to break out the doona jackets and beanies - most of us had bought new jackets just for this occasion, so we were very excited to get some use out of them. I brought a tuna and rice bag thing from Coles for dinner - though my hiking buddies all had fancy Backcountry Cuisine dishes - which was delicious and satisfying, not mention far easier than having to boil water in my opinion. I braved the tank water since I was excited to use my new water filter, and am pleased to report that the mosquito larvae that I saw in my bottle did not make their way into my stomach - success! I only wish I had've had the thought to take a picture of them, they were very wriggly and cute, but I was trying to connect with nature and ditch the phone so you'll have to do with this google images photo of them below. Once the sun had fully set, we broke out the wine and port and it was a very good ending to the day's efforts. I went to bed to read on my kindle for a short bit and then got my pillow (i.e. a dry sack full of clothes) ready for some well-deserved rest.



    Now for the negative bit I'm afraid - unfortunately, I had a terrible sleep. I had overinflated my mat so it hurt my hip when I laid on my side, the silk liner and mummy sleeping bag restricted my leg movement more than I was expecting, someone else's sleeping mat was so loud it sounded like a banshee, and within about 2h my initially soft 'pillow' had become a hard, lumpy, thin, rock. Not nice. To add to that, earlier I had let someone talk me into adjusting my tent stakes and guy lines (since the vestibule part was quite high off the ground), thinking that they knew better than me, but I kept quiet even though I wasn't 100% convinced that the result was an improvement over my initial set-up. This also turned out to be a huge mistake since the wind picked up and the now-lopsided vestibule flapping added to my general annoyance. Cue me standing outside in the wind in the dark (luckily with a head torch) re-staking my tent. I was shivering violently by the time I had finished - I definitely should've re-layered up for this endeavour! Quite a few lessons learned here, and I'm glad it was only a short trip on which to learn them.

    Come morning I had my breakfast of champions - Up and Go and a muesli bar - and we packed up the campsite in short order. I was similarly please at how easy it was to pack everything up, and did not at all resemble the hurried/yelling/stressed packing up of my bulky sleeping bag from my navy training days *shudder*. We were greeted by many mountain bikers, joggers and hikers whilst we packed up, and it was a lovely communal spirit to be a part of. For the walk back we took the long way 'round, about 6km this time, and with much lighter packs I was a bit more sure-footed but no less sore on the hips. I was excited to see Mr Interruptedbyfireworks and our fur-baby waiting for me at the carpark at the end, and even more happy to see the leftover Dominos pizza he had waiting for me at home!!!



    It was a wonderful weekend, I felt so much more connected to nature and my surrounds since I couldn't (easily) return to the safety of my air-conditioned home and fluffy bed. For next time, I'm definitely going to make a few changes, the biggest being an inflatable pillow, small mesh bag for the 'bits' like spork/sanitiser/sunscreen/headlamp, bigger dry sack for my clothes and a small foam pad for my knees when setting up the tent (all bought online already). I needed to bring an extra fleece layer as I was quite uncomfortable and cold sitting around after the sun dropped despite wearing a merino singlet, merino long sleeve, down jacket and rain jacket. I definitely didn't miss camp shoes, nor did I miss hot meals/coffees. I need to work on my 'walking' strength as my glute meds were very sore, from stabilising my pelvis under the heavy pack, but I don't think I overpacked by any stretch of the imagination.

    Stay tuned for my next overnight hike on the last weekend in March!
     
  39. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yay you!!

    Well done.

    Trust your gut with your tent set up.

    I so wish I had of gone now!

    Can't do end of March (Mr can come to jindy with me!! Hahaha) But def will do a trip soon!!
     
  40. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Well done.
    You learn as you go.
    Soon you will do battle with Mt.Jagungal ;-P
    and Hannel's spur :-0.

    Ear Plugs are handy for night time on these sort of trips.

    A fleece sweater/jacket is a must have layer.

    In snow camping I take my mega heavy one. In green season I take a lighter one for bushwalking .One of my friends, @Carola , went on her first overnight bush walk with me a few years ago, just a few hours up the Howqua river in the shadow of Mt. Buller to Ritchie's hut .
    Now she is a smashing out 250 kms in 11 days on the Great south west walk( Vic/SA border area) and she just went up to Mt.Kosci via Hannel's spur. She is fitter and happier and growing younger or so it would seem.
    Anyway doing long day walks( i.e 20 kms with a day pack ) can help get your walking fitness up to speed but carrying an overnight pack is a unique kind of fitness which needs to be maintained to some degree. Of course some Neurofen at the end of the day with some daal , rice and hot green tea can help with the aches and pains too. The Turmeric, garlic, ginger ,salt,pepper etc. in Indian food is like a medicine for your body too.

    It is matter of personal preference but proper hiking boots( e.g ASOLO BOOTS,made in the EU) can save you from ankle injuries if you roll your ankle ..Zip off quick dry pants can be used in combination with knee high gore tex gaiters. You can zip the lower halves off and store them in the gaiters and bring them out again for when nasty insects or hideous scrub bashing are encountered.

    Next I will get @Carola on XC skis!!
     
    #140 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  41. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Indian food on an overnight def requires a poo tube!!!
     
  42. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @Interruptedbyfireworks i use a light jumper under my down depending on the trip and expected temps. The colder the heavier weight will top I wear. FWIW I never put anything over down as it can effect its performance.

    mid also make a pack your first purchase as I think it may be sitting wrong. You are reasonably fit and strong (let’s face it snow boarders get up and down off their butts a lot ;)) so you shouldn’t be aching that much.
     
  43. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    Other than the ride to work, and winter activities - are you very active? Do you do any weight/conditioning work?
    Often things like this can uncover some base deficiencies, or support muscle/structures that need a little focus.

    Even if fit and strong, overnight hikes with any weight and distance can be a shock to the body. I remember doing an overnighter when I was super fit and decently strong, and issues with rubbing being my undoing. The pack was a little uncomfortable, but strength and fitness was able to overcome that.

    I can highly recommend stair climbing as a relevant fitness and conditioning activity. And you can throw a weighted pack or weight vest on to assist.
     
  44. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I’m pretty sedentary other than the ride to work to be honest, and since I can work from home I don’t always go into the office everyday (and therefore aren’t riding in but also aren’t walking around much). It’s definitely something I’m working on, we have a squat rack and some free weights at home as well as an indoor bike for the bad weather days. I think the lack of walking around much told on me, since my actual lung capacity was fine and I recovered quickly, but I was using muscles around my hips that cycling just doesn’t target.

    And winter last year was a long time ago haha. I also don’t EVER sit down to do up my bindings, so not too much sitting down standing up for me :p

    The pack was borrowed, and the shoes did feel sketchy on the rocky/gravelly surface, so both things probably did contribute as well.

    I have stairs at home (as well as the home gym!) so I think it’s just time for some more fitness!
     
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  45. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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  46. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    There are somethings I will not carry up a hill on an overnight outdoors trip. I live on mainly Indian food.
     
  47. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Try swimming 2.5 km.s outdoors twice a week, cycling 30 kms in three hours once a week, plus doing 20 push ups with your feet perched on an exercise ball at least once a week.That is my basic regime .Plus I try to walk at least for 30 min.s every day.
    Your body gains muscle memory by doing these things so doing a 12 hour day on day 2 of a solo trek with an overnight pack as I did in November 2019 on a section of the AAWT was demanding but nothing impossible. Even still , when white season comes around I have to build up to XC skiing 20 kms in a day with a day pack.
    Doing a 'surfer's pop up' in sets of 10 on the living room floor is good exercise too.
     
  48. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is about the least efficient way you can condition for hiking with a heavy pack
     
    zac150, zapruda and Ozgirl like this.
  49. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I meant improving overall fitness , not a specific pack carry fitness activity .Just trekking with a pack on your back is the best way to get in condition for that activity.

    Doing pack carry treks on easier undulating terrain helps you build up to pack carry missions on uphill ascents in the Oz Alps such as :Hannel's spur in NSW; The Diamantina spur ; The NW Spur; The Bon Accord spur; The T Spur; The Staircase spur; The Howitt spur; Muesli spur ;8 Mile spur ( all in VIC.) etc..
     
  50. kylep

    kylep Cage rattler Ski Pass: Gold

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    OP stated lung capacity was ok. More specific soreness including glutes/pelvis mentioned. This needs weight/resistance training, which swimming/cycling/pushups aren't going to assist with. Needs resistance through legs and core, with specific activation of the necessary muscles. Steps, lunges, squats, donkey kicks, every other day with correct technique as a start