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Green season prep for the 2020 BC season

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Interruptedbyfireworks, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Managed to getaway last Saturday and Sunday night to a place called Turon Gate, between Lithgow and Mudgee. Ostensibly to give the new (2013) VW Multivan a run. Beautiful property there. They have a walk called the Devils Climb. 16km circuit marked as difficult. We decided to give it a go. Some pretty steep climbing over a couple of ridge lines. The downhill was brutal on the knees and ankles. No real walking track more of a washed out rain water gulch. Very few switch backs to take the pressure of the knees. Seriously thinking ‘ what have we gotten ourselves into’. But then after about four hours walking and back down in the bottom of the valley, the most amazing, secluded swimming hole. No other people on the entire trail so skinny dipping for the oldies. Then a long flat walk out along the river in beautiful dappled light. The payoff well worth the sore knees.
     

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  2. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Since I haven’t had a chance to return the gear I borrowed for my overnight hike in early March, I thought I would do a little backyard camping tonight! It will be a bit of an adventure, plus an opportunity to test out the gear (even though it’s not mine and I really need to give it back, sigh) down to zero degrees.

    I am very excited, and also glad that I will have the option to retreat inside if it all gets too cold (or scary!)

    The little z-seat is already a godsend for my knees when setting it all up, and I’ve put less air in the mattress this time which should be an improvement. I’ve also added an inflatable pillow for that luxe experience.

     
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  3. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    You know that if you keep it for longer than 3 months and the owner doesn't ask for it back you get to keep
     
  4. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Haha I couldn't do that, it belongs to a volunteer group aiming to get more women into the outdoors.
     
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  5. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Have you seen South Indian and other Asiatic people squat with their heels flat on the ground to do every kind of task so they do not have to bend over or kneel? That is a useful posture and skill to have .
    In sub zero camping the mesh on 3 seasons tents means you lose heat from your sleeping chamber.
     
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  6. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I suspect my butt is too big for this to work for me LOL

    Yeah we are due for zero degrees tonight and might dip just below, so I may need to do an emergency exit inside!!!! We shall see :rolleyes:
     
  7. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Rum. A large bottle just before bed. Seriously tho it's a very good idea to see how well your gear fares while in a safe environment with an exit strategy.
    Alternative strategies include keeping a down jumper close by to add in if you get cold or simply waking up for long enough to make a hot cocoa or chicken soup and having a snack high in energy and with a reasonable amount of protein. Tomato cuppasoup with added 2 minute noodles works well for me too.
    If the forecast is for 0C to -5C I like my sleeping system to be rated for -10 to -15C to allow for fatigue etc
     
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  8. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The bag I'm using is comfort rated to 0.9C, so I'll be interested to see how I go with temps tonight
     
  9. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don’t drink the rum unless you have a fluffy slipper & down dressing gown plan to visit the VB factory later in the evening.
     
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  10. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Lol you lost me there
     
  11. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Think about cause & effect.
     
  12. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh dear. Sleeping bags that claim to be negative Celsius 1 degree are often no better than being wrapped up in a newspaper , esp. when camping somewhere truly cold where cold air sinks such as King river hut in May or higher up in the snow gums at Mt. Stirling in July .
    If you are going to snow camp then getting a duck down bag that is comfort rated to negative 9 and survival rated to negative 18 is a sound policy.
     
  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I do not drink booze but your internal furnace needs to be well stoked with noodle soups , tinned fish, nuts, hot tea etc. to stay warm in cold camping / snow camping and sleeping out etc..
     
  14. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you get cold go inside and get your doona and get back to the tent.

    It’ll be fun. :)
     
  15. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I wish I could have gone back to wherever to get my doona when I went to snow camp at Mt. Stirling in negative 6 C. with a so called minus 5 rated sleeping bag.
    :-0
    Harsh lessons about inadequate gear are never forgotten !!

    I went straight to Bogong equipment that week and got myself an EXPED comfort 800 4 seasons sleeping bag rated to negative 18 survival and negative 9 comfort .
    Not cheap but totally reliable and WARM even in a negative 8 C. blizzard on Mt. Feathertop!!
    The insulated sleeping mat also is important. I also use a space blanket on the tent floor underneath the insulated inflatable mat for all snow camping. The cold must be repelled/sealed out both above and below you .
     
  16. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ain’t that the truth.

    Even shit gear that your trip mates are using.
     
  17. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If I bail and go inside I don’t think I’ll be coming back outside :p
     
  18. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Discipline grasshopper.

    And think of the stars, they’ll be lonely without you.
     
  19. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Cold frosty weather for sleeping out in a tent can often feel colder at night in a camping bed than snow camping.
     
  20. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I had an older ski boot fitter in Jindabyne one time ask me if I could squat in this position. I showed him that I could. He said not many western people could. He reckoned that it demonstrated long tendons and hamstrings. He then pushed me over because I stayed squatting. He thought I was showing off. I wasn’t. I couldn’t lift myself back up. My knees are gone. I was stuck.
     
  21. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Well I wasn’t so cold that I couldn’t sleep, but I certainly wasn’t comfortable. Two layers of fleece over my merino thermals on top and the sleeping bag around my head was good, but my leggies were cold in the 200gm merino leggings. And it only got to 2 degrees!

    I made it to 6:30am then came inside, so I’m pretty happy with that.
     
  22. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @Interruptedbyfireworks with a warm bag you don't need to wear layers inside. Also, a Downmat or Synmat will reduce cold from the ground.
     
    #272 Fozzie Bear, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
  23. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I refer you back to my previous post
     
  24. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Dickie at Eiger?
     
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  25. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I really can’t remember now. Probably 7 years ago. Very dry sense of humour. Been doing it for many years I’d say. Good service.
     
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  26. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The mat I used had a R value of 4.2, plus I had a plain yoga mat underneath!

    It was a good test to confirm that a 3 season tent and bag with comfort level 0.9C isn’t quite warm enough for me when getting down to 2 degrees. I certainly wouldn’t have wanted it any colder.

    The mat and pillow still weren’t that comfortable though, even with less air in them...maybe I’m just too much of a sooky princess for this type of camping :p
     
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  27. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @Interruptedbyfireworks a closed cell foam mat with a Downmat / Synmat on top will keep you warm in a good bag even when camped on snow. Think you need a -10 rated bag.
     
  28. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yup - the sleep system is just that - a system. You wouldn't expect your home to be warm if you had the heater going and all the windows open.

    The insulation in the mat is becoming more standardised now, but it's still important to remember that the only thing this does is prevent or minimise the transfer of cold from the ground to your body (or warmth from your body to the ground - same outcome). The sleeping bag is your primary insulation.

    I have found in the past that I find it harder to sleep in a tent in the backyard than in the bush. Whether that is through the psychology of knowing that my real bed is just *there*, or because I haven't done enough physical exertion to make me drop into sleep, I'm not sure.

    The more closely you can mimic your actual planned camping situation, the better. If you are doing a test camp while wearing warm bulky clothing that you wouldn't pack with you, you are sabotaging your own results. Best to wear just what you would be wearing and use that to determine if you will be OK or not.
     
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  29. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    As a grunt of 25 years a blow up pillow was always in my pack. Webbing worked ok, but the new armour in no good for a head rest. Civi camping has none of that, so you definitely need something.
     
  30. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Goon sack..... drink contents, then use as pillow.
     
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  31. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Puffer jacket in sleeping bag sack works a treat.
     
  32. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Used an empty wine cask bladder for many years. Half blown up and covered with something warm. Has other useful purposes in a bind if need be. I have heard of some people taking the bladder not yet empty, for a more restful first night at least.
     
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  33. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have an ECW bag that I got for minus temps doing Army shit. Rated to -25 however it is too bulky to actually fit in my pack and keep everything compact. It is however perfect for our tent camping at Diggings during the season.
     
  34. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    @Interruptedbyfireworks; just check that the sleeping bag you used was rated for women at 1C, if it was comfort rated for men at that temperature it will be only 7C for females and that can make a big difference.
    If that was the female rating then you now know you need something warmer, or that you need to plan on taking insulated pants. Insulated pants make a lot of sense around camp if you don't want to head straight to bed each nite.
    I use Patagonia DAS pants with 90GSM of Polargard fibre but most people find that 60GSM is warm enough .
    I have heard good things about the cheap EagisMax down pants from AliExpress too or via ebay too
    http://www.bogong.com.au/rab-photon-primaloft-pants-1.html
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AEGISMA...hash=item4b5b0e5554:m:m_s9BdTwFEhCoPLeiZT0o6Q
     
  35. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Now there's a look for around the resort for 2020:
     
  36. skull

    skull One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have never bought anything off aliexpress as I thought it was all fake gear.
     
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  37. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah it was definitely comfort rated for women for 0.9 degrees C, so I now know I need to look for something rated much colder. It is the Marmot Hydrogen for anyone interested, pic of the spec attached.

    The mat I used was the sea-to-summit Etherlight XT for women, one of the highest rating thermal mats I’ve seen around too. I know a closed cell mat like the z-lite sol would be needed in addition for snow, but thought no closed cell for a 1-2 degree night would be a good test of the mat and bag. Which it was!

    I agree I think I need some insulated pants, I was thinking that anyway as I do get cold easily and they would be versatile (and I’m not 100% sold on overnight hikes atm so not willing to fork out for a super warm bag). I’m sorted for base, mid and insulating layers on top but my repertoire is seriously lacking for the bottom! I wore 60gm synthetic insulated skirt to bed and I could clearly differentiate the warm and cold parts of my legs.
     
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  38. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    insert joke about looking like the trash bag I am LOL
     
  39. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Would match the oodie so well ;)
     
  40. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Anyway, my prep is about to start...anyone watching Warren Miller live stream?
     
  41. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I did have only the layers I would be planning on having in my pack anyway, even for day BC adventures. The extra fleece was very light and no zips, so it was just an idea to try to see if I could get away with that one instead of the thicker zip fleece. Turns out that’s a big no haha for overnight anyway.

    Hearing all my neighbours heaters kick in all night certainly didn’t add to the ambience lol so maybe there’s something to not sleeping as well coz you know your bed is just there
     
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  42. Interruptedbyfireworks

    Interruptedbyfireworks One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Hey you know it’s a classy look :p


    I forgot about it, is it already over? I was napping haha
     
  43. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    My theory, like many things such as bootflex, is that ratings like this are only useful within an individual manufacturer's range. There is no objective standard.
     
  44. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just about to start. Ads are on.
     
  45. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    With the right gear you can be too warm in minus 8 with snow hammering down on your tent. Just digging yourself out the next morning is interesting. Keep the snow shovel inside the tent in such conditions.
    The photo is from Mt.Feathertop in July 2017.I went Solo snow camping at Federation hut. It snowed a lot!
     
  46. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Blasphemy! .
     
  47. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not really.

    @Interruptedbyfireworks just focus on getting the day trips nailed at present.

    I trust the CBR crew are able to get get shit together & do so some local hill in forest wanders over the next two months?

    Do I need to name & shame?
     
  48. zac150

    zac150 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s under control....
     
  49. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Not true since the EN testing protocol came in. I agree it isn't perfect and you do really need to have a good understanding of the test conditions and protocols but it works reasonably well. Of course if you are as old as I am then you remember a simple rule, a pound of down for summer, 2 pounds of down for winter and 3 pounds of down for the snow [ and I guess add another pound for Everest] and that was with Superdown rated at 550 Fill Power, which seemed to be magic stuff 40 years ago. If you use 850+ FP down you can take that mantra and deduct a third and say 350 grams for summer, 700 grams for winter and 1100 grams for the snow and be quite close. I am a cold sleeper when trying to fall asleep so I would add a comfort margin to those fill weights and now a safety margin to account for age. However that safety margin can be the insulated clothing I normally carry to wear in camp and/or the bivvy sack I customarily carry
     
  50. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    I don't currently own a summer sleeping bag and I am thinking about the S2S Traveller2
    https://www.wildearth.com.au/buy/sea-to-summit-traveller-trii-down-sleeping-bag-lar/ATR2-L
    It is EN rated for a cool summer night at 5C and is filled with 420 grams of 750FP down. I think it's reasonable close to the old mantra.
    I'm pointing this particular bag out to Interruptedbyfireworks because it will have a secondary use as an overquilt to boost my winter bag just in case I get to go somewhere cold, having finally sold the -55C monster