Hakuba 2012/13 thread: links, cams, info, etc.

skichanger

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Damian is the info for Myoko available anywhere? Will be talking to my boys and telling them to really think about where they are going. Fortunately the younger ones have a coach with them at the moment. He is also a guide so has knowledge and experience he can share with them.
 

BobGnarly

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damian said:
Depends on what you mean by 'large'.

A flat temperature gradient promotes sintering. A steep (or what I call 'large') TG promotes faceting.

A steep TG is 1 degree change or more over 10cm.
thats what I thought. Why does more snow on top not result in a flat T/G?
 
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damian

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All I can offer is this public post from an open national database of snow and avalanche observations by local guides and trained backcountry people.
http://nadare.jp/snowbbs2/2013/02/post-422.html

Just gently: I have no idea what kind of 'guide' your son's ski race coach is and may be speaking out of line. But not many race coaches are guides. In fact, I know of coaches who take grossly negligent risks - they breach their duty of care - with juniors under their care thanks to their own arrogant assumption that their skiing skills somehow equate to mountain skills. I am not trying to question your coach, however teh word "guide" has a specific professional meaning and should not be used by people lightly. Always be skeptical, especially if that 'guide' is Australian or Japanese.
 
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LMB

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damian said:
Thanks guys.

Bob - you are right that this is an upper snowpack storm instability problem, and it could heal quite fast. However these buried layers of 'low pressure snow' sometimes persist for a week and produce avalanches for that period, though with a declining degree of sensitivity to human load, and in smaller size in terms of destructive potential. We call these layers "preserved stellars". One thing that helps preserve them is sustained colder air temperatures and some but not much snow above them. Too much overburden weight and/or mild temps with a large diurnal fluctuation promotes a faster sintering process. I threw that in for your geek appeal
wink.gif


Right now there are reports of the exact same problem in Myoko today.
I've been forwarding all this info to PB in Myoko - much appreciated. I hate it when I am not there to go all safety nazi - read the fecking Avie report before you go out - on him. The words of wisdom will mean more coming from you guys than me
biggrin.gif
 
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damian

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BobGnarly said:
damian said:
Depends on what you mean by 'large'.

A flat temperature gradient promotes sintering. A steep (or what I call 'large') TG promotes faceting.

A steep TG is 1 degree change or more over 10cm.
thats what I thought. Why does more snow on top not result in a flat T/G?

Hey mate, there is a confusion here. Probably my fault.

Deeper snow does produce a flatter TG as there is more distance between the ground at zero degrees and the air surface at -X degrees. (Note: This does not hold true for a period of a few days after a thick rain crust has been formed then buried. The rain crust is warm (zero) and for a time therefore acts as a 'false ground' which is much closer to the colder air surface thus creating a steeper TG.)
 
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damian

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Lady Mamabear said:
I hate it when I am not there to go all safety nazi - read the fecking Avie report before you go out - on him.

smile.gif
I'll be blunt. You should never be labelled a safety nazi for suggesting someone read a professionally prepared avalanche bulletin.

In the isntance that it is available, only a fool or someone utterly unaware of the mountain environment and what is requires of you would go into uncontrolled terrain without reading an avalanche bulletin as part of their overall info gathering process to support their decision making. I have a pretty high level of training, and I read it no matter where I go if one is available. I'm not sure why anyone else would be different.
 
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BobGnarly

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I read niseko report every day since the snow started falling. Ive never ridden a day at niseko but I ride a lot in the same area and the general vibe of the report is often accurate in the terrain I do ride.
 

skichanger

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damian said:
All I can offer is this public post from an open national database of snow and avalanche observations by local guides and trained backcountry people.
http://nadare.jp/snowbbs2/2013/02/post-422.html

Just gently: I have no idea what kind of 'guide' your son's ski race coach is and may be speaking out of line. But not many race coaches are guides. In fact, I know of coaches who take grossly negligent risks - they breach their duty of care - with juniors under their care thanks to their own arrogant assumption that their skiing skills somehow equate to mountain skills. I am not trying to question your coach, however teh word "guide" has a specific professional meaning and should not be used by people lightly. Always be skeptical, especially if that 'guide' is Australian or Japanese.

Damian I understand what you are saying. This is not a "race" coach and after the care taken on the weekend to ensure my son skied well within his limits on a very very nasty moguls course I am happy with his attitude towards my son's safety and his "duty of care". The real issue is having someone who will understand the risks skiing with these teenagers who have no idea about the risks but can ski almost anywhere. At home they just ski wherever and don't worry about any of this stuff. Here they need to be educated that the conditions can be very different to what the are familiar with. And more importantly - stuff happens!
 
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damian

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Bob, getting a bit out of topic now for this thread, but the point about overburden or deep snow that I originally made was more talking about the fact that more weight (overburden) promotes sintering in some crystal forms. Though related, I was not directly referring to the TG.
 
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damian

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Bob - was just clarifying
smile.gif


skichanger said:
damian said:
All I can offer is this public post from an open national database of snow and avalanche observations by local guides and trained backcountry people.
http://nadare.jp/snowbbs2/2013/02/post-422.html

Just gently: I have no idea what kind of 'guide' your son's ski race coach is and may be speaking out of line. But not many race coaches are guides. In fact, I know of coaches who take grossly negligent risks - they breach their duty of care - with juniors under their care thanks to their own arrogant assumption that their skiing skills somehow equate to mountain skills. I am not trying to question your coach, however teh word "guide" has a specific professional meaning and should not be used by people lightly. Always be skeptical, especially if that 'guide' is Australian or Japanese.

Damian I understand what you are saying. This is not a "race" coach and after the care taken on the weekend to ensure my son skied well within his limits on a very very nasty moguls course I am happy with his attitude towards my son's safety and his "duty of care". The real issue is having someone who will understand the risks skiing with these teenagers who have no idea about the risks but can ski almost anywhere.

So in short, he should ensure that your son does not enter any avalanche terrain at all.
 
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BobGnarly

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Haha I know but way off topic I agree so im shutting my big aussie trap!
laugh.gif
 
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LMB

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damian said:
Lady Mamabear said:
I hate it when I am not there to go all safety nazi - read the fecking Avie report before you go out - on him.

smile.gif
I'll be blunt. You should never be labelled a safety nazi for suggesting someone read a professionally prepared avalanche bulletin.

In the isntance that it is available, only a fool or someone utterly unaware of the mountain environment and what is requires of you would go into uncontrolled terrain without reading an avalanche bulletin as part of their overall info gathering process to support their decision making. I have a pretty high level of training, and I read it no matter where I go if one is available. I'm not sure why anyone else would be different.
Agree.

PB is not the one who calls me a safety nazi - its a couple of his risk taker mates. BUT, without me there to study the reports every day, I doubt he'd read them. He's also less likely to go solo off piste when I am not around, but you never know.

Best I can do is still feed him all the info from over here in swelter central.

BobGnarly said:
I read niseko report every day since the snow started falling. Ive never ridden a day at niseko but I ride a lot in the same area and the general vibe of the report is often accurate in the terrain I do ride.
laugh.gif
I haven't read every day, but I have read it at least once a week - and I haven't even gone this year (yet). Understanding the history of the winter I think helps you make better decisions also.
 
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damian

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Lady Mamabear said:
PB is not the one who calls me a safety nazi - its a couple of his risk taker mates.

Most successful risk takers do so with a process of info gathering, analysis and decision making. Usually based on a systematic consistent method.

Unsuccessful risk takers gather no info, and make no informed decisions. They just 'go of it'. Also called punters.

You also have a third class of risk taker: those who would use info to make decisions, but are not aware of which info they need, how to get it or what it means if they see it, or even recognise it when they see it. It is the saddest when they end up dead.
 
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skichanger

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damian said:
Bob - was just clarifying
smile.gif


skichanger said:
damian said:
All I can offer is this public post from an open national database of snow and avalanche observations by local guides and trained backcountry people.
http://nadare.jp/snowbbs2/2013/02/post-422.html

Just gently: I have no idea what kind of 'guide' your son's ski race coach is and may be speaking out of line. But not many race coaches are guides. In fact, I know of coaches who take grossly negligent risks - they breach their duty of care - with juniors under their care thanks to their own arrogant assumption that their skiing skills somehow equate to mountain skills. I am not trying to question your coach, however teh word "guide" has a specific professional meaning and should not be used by people lightly. Always be skeptical, especially if that 'guide' is Australian or Japanese.

Damian I understand what you are saying. This is not a "race" coach and after the care taken on the weekend to ensure my son skied well within his limits on a very very nasty moguls course I am happy with his attitude towards my son's safety and his "duty of care". The real issue is having someone who will understand the risks skiing with these teenagers who have no idea about the risks but can ski almost anywhere.

So in short, he should ensure that your son does not enter any avalanche terrain at all.

Exactly! And part of the issue is that I could say that to the boys but they would have no idea what that actually meant. Not sure that I know either but I generally ski inbounds.
 
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LMB

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PB falls into catagory 3.
(he wouldn't agree)

A couple of his mates - catagory 2.
(they wouldn't agree)

My goal every group trip is to feed those in 2/3 the catagory 1 info in hope they will continue to research for themselves or at least be aware. For some, it's like white noise. Frustrating.

God! You must find it SO frustrating!!
 

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BobGnarly said:
Nothing frustrates damian. He is in his own constant state of zen!
Hahah..
Thats not always the case Bob..

Good read Damien.
Any post of yours is appreciated.

re the winter not being "normal" it most definitely isn't.
I would say Hakuba has been subjected to 3 timess as many southerly storms as usual by this time each season.
I'd love to see an average MSLP for the Nagano and compare it to years past.
My hunch is the pressure has been alot lower this season than past seasons. The dominating Highs over Siberia have been few and far between.
Japan has had, roughly by my count 9 large troughs/lows skirt up from Taiwan over the past 10 weeks or so. The path they take greatly influnences the location of snowfall.

You can also see this in Hokkaido. The pressure gradient has been way larger than years past. Hence So much wind.
 
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Sandy

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Donza said:
BobGnarly said:
Nothing frustrates damian. He is in his own constant state of zen!
Hahah..
Thats not always the case Bob..

Good read Damien.
Any post of yours is appreciated.

re the winter not being "normal" it most definitely isn't.
I would say Hakuba has been subjected to 3 timess as many southerly storms as usual by this time each season.
I'd love to see an average MSLP for the Nagano and compare it to years past.
My hunch is the pressure has been alot lower this season than past seasons. The dominating Highs over Siberia have been few and far between.
Japan has had, roughly by my count 9 large troughs/lows skirt up from Taiwan over the past 10 weeks or so. The path they take greatly influnences the location of snowfall.

You can also see this in Hokkaido. The pressure gradient has been way larger than years past. Hence So much wind.

The MSLP for Nagano for January & February has been a bit higher than average(1990-2012)
Month ..... Av ..... 2013
Jan ... 1018.3 .. 1019.9
Feb ... 1018.3 .. 1019.7

A few things I have noticed about the storm systems is that they don't originate near Taiwan, but well north of there in the interior of China, west of Shanghai. They also mostly don't develop into full blown systems until they pass east of Niigata/Tokyo, so the pressure is not all that low.
 
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Donza

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Well there you go..I was thinking they were orginating closer to Nagano..
 

Donza

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Heli skiing may frustrate him.
laugh.gif


I see a proper opp is starting.
 
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Sandy

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Donza said:
Heli skiing may frustrate him.
laugh.gif


I see a proper opp is starting.

details??

They've been running a heli skiing operation out of Tsugaike for a while(from the beginning of March usually, iirc), but it's mickey mouse...
 
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damian

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My friend, that MJ.jp fella is just a slow-life one man show who likes skiing/exploring mountains every day, sitting by the fire at night with his dog and beer, then farming for 6 months of down time.

He just packed his skins and is about to go wander again...
 

Slaine

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Where on earth was that Tsugaike pic taken? I can't recognise it.

We heard a rumour about a couple of Aussies who decided to ski the Olympic skijumps.... on their snowboards. A few days before we got there (15th we arrived). One died, one is a quadriplegic now. Rumours or truth?
 

Slaine

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So the gondy station is the white covered building to the left in that picture? I haven't gone up those lifts, might have to some time!

Hmmmm, thinking the skijump thing was just lies and slander.
 

Donza

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151-2.jpg

good groomer this
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kashimayari
Onsen looking epic
352-4.jpg
 
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Slaine

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Got it! Everytime I was up that way this year visibility was down and snow was smashing into my face!
tongue.gif
Not used to seeing it in the blue from up high!
 
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Vermillion

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And this:

[iframe src="http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151274019216126" width="720" height="576" frameborder="0"][/iframe]

edit: meh, cant seem to embed a FB video.
 

Slaine

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That second picture looking back up to where the first was taken? I need to get up there next year, looks great!
 
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