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Hannels

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by VSG, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Poo tube educational boards are going to be necessary.....since KNP don't like dunnies.....

    Oh the faecal loading!!

    KNP turning the place into a tourist Mecca championed by the tourism front!!

    Boys may have to come hiking in Vicco to avoid the masses ......so much for the quiet stroll around the glacial lakes....

    ..perhaps Hannels might benefit from the tourist influx....folk are
    escaping to a quieter locality.....
     
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  2. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Still working on my prep for Hannels, got a weekend pass ,off to Bungonia gorge
    for a warm up walk. last time I was there was the Frazer/Hawk election weekend.
     
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  3. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I will be walking up Hannels spur in spring 2018. Only The Staircase spur with 25 kgs on your back , going up Mt. Bogong will prepare you for such a mission.
    Some other spur climbs in VIC. which would be useful preparation could include: The Diamantina Spur ; The NW spur ( Mt. Feathertop); The Howitt spur ; Muesli Spur and Machinery spur .They all will get your legs and lungs pumping.
    I may have to give Champion spur up to Twin Knobs a go myself.
     
  4. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    25kgs is dangerous, mate. You are bringing too much shit. I’m not saying go ultralight at all just consider what you do and don’t need. There are no medals for someone who ****s there back bushwalking.

    You obviously enjoy the pass time a lot so do yourself a favour start thinking like a minimalist. You will enjoy it even more I promise.

    Im happy to give you hand curating your packing list if you want.
     
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  5. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    The red track then up the white track? Solid walk
     
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  6. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am heading towards carrying a lighter load. My 48 year old knees are telling me it must be so.
     
  7. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Absolutely. It’s a health risk. I still carry a 2kg tent and warm sleeping bag etc. I just don’t bring anything that’s unnecessary. Everything is used and sometimes does double or even triple duty. It’s a frame of mind as opposed to a money spent thing i think.

    Anyway. Good luck with the climb.
     
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  8. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    red track loop,with about 7-8 kg day pack, which is 6kg food and water.
     
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  9. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Let us know how it goes. Have fun.
     
  10. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I went up Hannels about 4 weeks back.

    Cleared from about 300m below Moira’s Flat. Well marked most of the way with pink tape - some breaks in the last 3km before the Flat, but mostly easy to recover the marked path - stay on the ridge and traverse from side to side to recover the path.

    I screwed up at the very start and went too far along before crossing the river. If you find the regular start of the walk you should be fine.

    The best news of all is that the water point above Moira’s Flat is well marked, well-cleared and within 15 m of the main path.

    It’s an open question whether one wants to follow the regular Hannels track from Byatt’s camp towards Muellers Pass or rather complete the walk by cutting across to Mt Townsend and then Muellers Pass.

    I went from Byatts along the marked Hannels Track to Muellers Pass, but next time I would definitely head up via Townsend.

    Enjoy!

    Trip report: https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/hannels-spur-and-mt-kosi-in-autumn.80978/
     
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  11. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Absolutely 100%. I used to carry a lot of stuff just in case others in the group did not have something. I was younger and fitter also. Perhaps Mr T feels the need to carry for the less experienced people he leads but that means he should be going through their gear list as well. Perhaps he is the sort of person who does not like to be caught without. Some people are also gear freaks and all that nice (light weight) stuff on the market can be very appealing but it adds up. I have had the conversation with him previously about ridiculously heavy packs and the need to cut back. 25kg for a single night summer walk is insane. I suggested he start by leaving his guitar behind but that only met with ridicule from one forum member.and the excuse from Mr. T that it was a light weight Martin travel guitar. Is it really necessary when we hear constantly about the problem with old knees? That conversation was a long time ago and nothing has changed. What is more important long term? I stopped marathon running because long term I wanted to enjoy walking/skiing in my old age and my body would not sustain both. On shorter walks I may carry a bit more in the way of nice things to eat or drink but my last walk in the mountains my start weight was 17kg and that included rations of scotch and red wine plus cheese and biscuits. I am not into the ultra light or minimalist scene but I agree many things can double up. A gortex raincoat is also a windstopper jacket. Mr. T has an advantage already in that he does not drink alcohol but a disadvantage in that he may not be able to share of the load with others (such as a tent). Time for Mr. T to change his frame of mind or at the very least stop moaning about the weight and the sore knees until he does.
     
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  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    On topic everybody !
    Never mind MrTs musculoskeletal condition.His posts suggest he is highly active out there! Hopefully he won't cut his musical instruments down to a safety whistle only!
    :thumbs:
     
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  13. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well I never!

    LOL
     
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  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    A bigger health risk awaits the blobs who never walk , swim, cycle, ski or surf and are addicted to KFC, Maccas etc..I plan to keep going until I am at least 83 , just like the late Les Southwell , who popped his clogs on Mt. Bogong at age 83, having hiked up there with a full pack, snow camped and skied around for a week!.
    I am looking at taking up the ukulele if it is lighter and smaller . I do think playing live music in your tent or in the hut and singing at night is totally worth it.
     
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  15. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    harmonica - knee replacements are expensive and a major bummer.

    Lighter gear and increased fitness - changes an ordeal into an enjoyable trip
     
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  16. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am fit. You bet I am fit .
     
  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Some people simply enjoy the drama of ordeals. Being fit does not mean you should be carrying more even though you are able. It will still slow you down and cause you grief. That has been evidenced by the many reports Mr. T has provided on his journeys through the mountains. Hannels is a big climb and 25kg on your back doing it will test out the fitness of most and be quite and ordeal. Certainly not enjoyable. We would all hope Mr. T is still doing this in another 25 years and the concerned responses are genuine but it is his body and they are his adventures so all we can do is suggest. (I hope the reference to Hannels tied in this post to make it on topic enough for the new moderator)
     
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  18. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Apart from the guitar everything else that I carry on my treks is necessary such as light weight food, stove fuel, sleeping bag, drinking water , 4 seasons tent , sleeping mat, head torch, camera, stove, fleece jacket, goretex jacket , thermals etc. etc.
    I weigh 93 kgs. 93 divided by 3 = 31.
    One should not carry more than a third of one's body weight. I am not doing that but in some cases I may , just possibly have to leave the guitar in the car :-0. Hannel's spur might be such a trip.So too might be Helicopter spur in Spring because scrambling up rocks with a guitar is actually making things tricky ;-P . I found that out going up Stanely Name spur in Nov. 2017.
    T.
     
  19. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    "solid walk" you bet. red track loop 4h5m. about 550 vertical, one of the tougher/ technical short walks
    out there. Hot shower at camping ground after was great., still more training needed before Hannels
    possibly around the same time frame as mr.T.
     
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  20. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    This is actually a very poor rule of thumb. I was reading about how heavier people actually are less able to carry heavier weight in their pack. They are already carrying a heavier load so it is really about a maximum load weight including body weight. Strength does not increase proportionately with size and the overall heavier load will affect cartilage and joints more than a lighter person carrying the same weight on their back. So in effect you are likely doing even more damage to your body than a lighter person. I know I can walk all day, up and down hills, covering over 20km in the mountains and not be shattered at the end of the day if I keep my pack at or below 17kg. My level of fitness is only moderate. That is about 20% of my weight. Perhaps you should try a walk at 20% and note the difference. This would be good practise for your upcoming Hannels excursion.I am guessing it is still a matter of changing the mindset as all the stuff you take is considered necessary.
     
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  21. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    We used to spend the day down there climbing then head up the Efflux track at the end of the day.
     
  22. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I thought the rule of thumb was no more than 25% of body weight? For Mr T that would be 23kg max.
     
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  23. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This^^^^^^

    My base pack weight is 8kg is sharing and 10kg if just with the +1. Add water, food and wine to this. So for a 4 day 3 night hike I’d start at around 15kg and I have everything listed except a guitar.

    That was my pack weight leading newbies.

    I gave them a list of gear to bring and checked the gear; one group it wasn’t until the third hike someone realised my let me show you how to pack your gear was just a subtle way of actually checking through to make sure everything packed.
     
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  24. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I did notice a few bolts and old slings in the slot canyon faces.
     
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  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    23 Kgs would be groovy. I will work towards that pack weight . On my Indian Himalaya trekking trip with two other trekking friends this year we are hiring porters. That is what will make it a holiday :).
     
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  26. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think if you go there and don't hire porters you're a dick.
     
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  27. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep. Messner fits that mould .
     
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  28. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you want to hump a big load that is entirely up to you. When you can't hump it anymore you will either stop humping or hump less. As long as no one else has to hump for you then hump away. As a matter o fact I feel like a hump now.
     
  29. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    That has two meanings.
     
  30. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  31. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    What concerns me is that Mr Tee seems to take beginners on introductory walks. I wonder how many are put off the activity by someone insisting that a kitchen sink is a vital piece of equipment?
     
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  32. NewTurns

    NewTurns One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is crying out for an Econometrician or Actuary to devise a chart showing the efficient frontier of pack weight vs body weight vs fitness vs humpability. A four vector algorithm can't be too difficult for some of the quant talent on the forums. Actually only 3 factors if humpability is the result... seriously there are famous equation naming rights up for grabs here!
     
  33. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Less than 20% of body weight and your effort can go towards stuff beyond lugging weight - whether that’s skiing, or negotiating terrain at speed or increasing the daily distance, or appreciating the environment, or socializing.

    Above 20% and it becomes all about the pack, especially if you’re doing more than 15km in a day.

    Below 20% it stays enjoyable irrespective of distance or terrain.

    OK we’ll all have our own optimal cut-offs, depending on strength and fitness and budget.

    After 3 decades of hiking I’ve settled on less than 20% of body weight.

    I did Hannels with a 18kg pack (I’m about 70 kg, moderate fitness)

    If I did it with a 6kg pack I would have done it in a third of the time and enjoyed it WAY more.

    Epic routes should be about the route, not the grind.

    Today I did a 16km up and down with reasonable vertical of 1297 metres - with a Camelbak pack of about 5kg - water, food, PLB, phone, rain jacket, warm layer, torch, car keys, wallet, beanie, camera.

    Because I went light it was fast and far more enjoyable - case closed.
     
  34. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    About 10 years ago I was on an overnighter and bumped into a bloke who I thought was on a day walk, turned out he was on his last day of walking the AAWT from Canberra. Had a glorified day pack that at its heaviest was 13kg with a week of food. I was carrying about 18kg for two days.

    Summer multi day trips are now rarely above 12 kg, it cost a few dollars to get there but the extra enjoyment is virtually priceless.
     
  35. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Me and Klettergirl did 3days- 2 nights at Blue Lake with 17kg and 15.5kg . That was with 2litres of wine and a stack of trad climbing gear.
     
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  36. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    No better reason to increase weight than climbing gear and red wine!
     
  37. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    ....or ski gear and red wine
     
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  38. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Add nervous system to this. Some people are just going to be more comfortable and still function with a slightly heavier pack. I.e me at 20% if my body weight vs my wife at 20% totally different. Some people can just block out the weight.

    I like this last point, we met a group in a hut a few years ago, one had converted to ultra light and his pack was under 10kg, he did is right, paid the money and converted everything to light gear. His mates just left stuff behind like clothes. Was Pretty funny in the morning when one guy slept in and was behind the others and needed to borrow a stove, but they had all packed.
     
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  39. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or just red wine
     
  40. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  41. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah, pussys!
     
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  42. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am considering tackling Champion Spur as day walk up Champion spur and down the Bungalow spur. A day walk with a day pack it will still be a big hike . However with a pre dawn start and a head torch in the pack for the last leg of the Bungalow spur it could still be done in May ( This Month)despite the short daylight hours.
     
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  43. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Go for it! Experiment with a light pack and see how you go!
     
  44. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Up Champion- down North West.
     
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  45. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have been down the NW spur. I only need to go up it to say I am done with it.
     
  46. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its not bad up actualy. Would rather do it than Bon Accord
     
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  47. GS

    GS A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hooked up with an American bloke one time, he and his mates back home changed to pre cooked or high energy foods so they didn't need to carry stoves.
    I haven't gone that far yet, nor the ultra light weight flimsy gear....maybe after 60
     
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  48. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I went up and down the Bon Accord with overnight snow gear in September one year. A friend and I snow camped at the Diamantina hut .We were shattered . I have not been back !. The Horror, The Horror!
     
  49. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Mr. T. heading up the Bon Accord spur in September 2015. That last 2 km pinch to the top was most unkind.
     
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  50. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I found it to be just epic long and boring until you got to the treeline. Did NW probably over a dozen times- loved that approach.
     
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