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Question Help, is 99mm waist too wide for Oz?

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Steve180, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Steve180

    Steve180 First Runs

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    Just impulse purchased (Damn COVID!) some new Head Core 99’s from the states thinking they would be good for my mix of off / on piste here in Oz (basically the Black maze at falls creek). I’m now wondering if they will be too wide and should have gone sub-90. Has anyone used this ski or similar here in Oz and had good / bad experience? Bought it as marketed as all-mountain not realising there is a difference between US and Oz all-mountain. (My last set of skis were Völkl karma twins that I always found great off piste but terrible at carving..my hope was the heads would do both)
     
  2. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah getting wide for Oz in the firm snow. I broke my ~90mm rule one year and had a 98mm Blizzard Bonafide as my main ski. It's an amazing ski in its element but I didn't love it as much as when I'm on a ~90mm ski.
     
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  3. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don’t like that width every day in Oz, but you can make it work, definitely
     
  4. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    After many demos my daily driver is a Volkl Mantra which is 96 underfoot.It hasn't let me down yet. I demo'd the Kore 99 at Coronet Peak in Queenstown on a particularly icy day. It handled almost everything I threw at it.

    Almost...

    I found that it had a speed limit where it would struggle for grip, probably more down to how light the ski is. If you aren't trying to set land speed records it should be fine, and a lot of fun.
     
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  5. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I’ll second that with the Mantra M5’s. Any problem getting them on edge is all mine, not the skis.
     
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  6. Steve180

    Steve180 First Runs

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    Thanks guys and girls for the quick feedback! Really appreciated, was almost ready to try and offload them and aim narrower..but after your comments, think I’ll bite the bullet and give them a crack. Am heading up early August so will pray to the powder gods, cheers
     
  7. Steve180

    Steve180 First Runs

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    Great feedback, cheers...a particularly icy day at concrete peak is “real icy” so a good test of worst situation for this ski!
     
  8. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Depends who you ask and the standard of skier.
     
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  9. Swede

    Swede One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Nah 100 under foot is all good, todays skis at 100 will ski a rock hard piste better than an 85 under foot ski from five six years ago as far as I’m concerned.
     
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  10. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Laws of physics have a lot to do with it. When you break it down to a force diagram, the width of the ski is basically a lever trying to pull the ski flat, longer the lever the higher the force.

    This is offset when you’re in softer snow as the force isn’t concentrated right at the edge, it’s closer to the middle of the ski, shortening the lever.
     
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  11. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Most importantly, what length are your head core 99's ??

    Strangely, they are not all 99mm under foot. I know this because my daughter demoed and bought a set in Canada, and I was surprised her Kore 99's were actually 93 under foot :confused: She is tiny, but a top notch skiier and has the 153cm which is 93mm under foot.

    Geometry is as follows : source https://www.head.com/shop/en-IC/kore-99-36.html
    Length Shovel waist Tails Radius
    153 126 93 113 11,4
    162 129 95 115 13,2
    171 131 97 118 15,1
    180 134 99 120 17,0
    189 137 101 122 19,1

    Having said that, 99 is not necessarily to much in Oz. I ski 95-96 (Kaestle), and am relatively short an light. Good for spring slush, crud busting et
     
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  12. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Question Help, is 99mm waist too wide for Oz?

    No.
     
  13. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Nuff said :cool:
     
  14. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    As CM said the laws of physics havent changed , whatever the marketers say.
     
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  15. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I use it here - It’s fine.
     
  16. Swede

    Swede One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The width of the ski is only one part of the equation when it comes to how it behaves. I only answered the question if 99 is too wide for Oz based on my own experience from 49 years of skiing, it was in no way an expert comment by a ski designer.
     
  17. J_busworth

    J_busworth One of Us

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    I've skied 98 underfoot skis in Australia for the last four seasons and I love them. The wider underfoot gives you so much flexibility across a range of conditions. I find they are perfect for the really wet snow (and slush) that Australian resorts often suffer from. Most skis in that range will carve fine these days and have plenty of power in the powder.
     
  18. Steve180

    Steve180 First Runs

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    That’s interesting, I’m 6’2, 80kg and advanced so 180 was my sweet spot, so guess 99 it is
     
  19. Steve180

    Steve180 First Runs

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    Just like to say thanks to all, awesome forum with some awesome people, hopefully we get some turns in this year in this crazy world!
     
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  20. Peanut

    Peanut One of Us

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    I’m going to hijack this thread to ask a question:

    Does the width of a skier’s foot affect how wide a ski they can handle? I have very small (MP 23.5) feet and currently ski 84mm underfoot here in Aus and NZ. I haven’t skied in decent powder in the northern hemisphere, so I haven’t had the need to try something wider underfoot. I’m just wondering if I would struggle with wider ski widths?
     
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  21. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d say no. Lots of ladies ski powder beautifully on skis around 115 mm underfoot. They are often on skis constructed for their lighter weight. If you are of slight build you might be better off using a ski of lighter construction. I don’t see width per se as being an issue for you.
     
  22. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m a 22.5, my everyday skis are also 84. I have some 100mm that I take overseas, they are magic in powder but much harder work on piste. Nothing to do with foot size, just the mechanics of moving from edge to edge. I find I have to ski them better than my narrower skis, or they’ll get away from me. Takes a few days to convert and work them properly. Realistically though, at my size and weight, I’d manage perfectly ok in deeper snow on the 84’s.
     
  23. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    How'd I miss this one.

    Head Kore 99's you're sweet, you'll love 'em and they'll be fine.

    Yes obviously physics of a narrower ski versus a wider ski play a part in its application but when we're talking the difference between 90mm and 100mm the extra force required to roll over 5mm isn't earth shattering. What we need to also take into account is the ski design. If we're talking a straight edge which used to be the norm compared to a parabolic edge then the equation changes. The force is less to get a shaped ski to turn because the edges of the ski are working in your favour.

    With what's available these days in construction and shaping, it's really a case of ski what you want to ski. I've had fun skiing in Australia on everything between 60mm to 115mm everyday, in all conditions. Go narrow if you want, go wide if you want. No big deal really.
     
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  24. OlCol

    OlCol Hard Yards

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    It depends on a few variables. I have skied on atomic access 171 2013 model 100 waist, since June 2013. It is lightweight flexible fun ski for me. But i am 63 and only 170cm and 70kg.
    Its best offpiste in trees but manages ok on piste, and scary on chopped up boiler plate. I would not go any thinner. Newer models would be even better on the firmer stuff.
     
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  25. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mmmm I’d not specifically recommend a 100mm plus ski for use in Oz, although it will work. Specifically, at least in my experience it will be notably less fun on very firm aka ice mornings, which are quite common in Oz.

    Yes a 65mm underfoot ski will be ideal for ice...80mm better than 90mm etc in those conditions. But for me I can live with the trade offs of an 88mm underfoot ski in Oz as all rounder, including those icy mornings. While I could make a wider ski work I’ve found The trade off for that classically icy morning to be more than I’m prepared to make. Everything else though they’re fine.

    If you sleep in ignore all the above ;)
     
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  26. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I find the "icy Australian conditions" argument a little misleading to be honest.

    Let me explain. No ski likes ice and few skiers get juiced about skiing it. Give me a well tuned 115mm underfoot over a dull 65mm any day. So it's not so much the condition of the snow it's the condition of the ski and I can tell you that the snow condition will change a lot faster than the ski condition.

    The reality is that we ski a lot of firm snow turning to slush. Depends on where you ski in Oz but many a run will involve soft wet snow. Give me a wider base for that shite.

    I think we all get a little tied up in the Australian snow condition mindset. Keep your edges sharp and take whatever comes your way. Do a season in the Australian alps and you'll ski just as much good snow, firm snow, slush snow, man made snow and ice as each other. Every now and then you'll even get some pow.

    We might not get the amount of pow that other snow regions get but at the same time we're not skiing an ice rink all day either. Oh! and there is a difference between firm snow and ice.
     
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  27. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    100% this. I had been away from skiing for a few years and had a million questions regarding ski width and length, when I joined the website about a year and a half ago. The experts on this site were fantastic in terms of pointing me in the right direction and giving me tips. I went with Volkl M5’s after a lot of research, however that nagging question of whether 96(97?) mm would be to wide for Australian conditions kept coming up. My first morning on them over at Mount P and traversing across I was looking for the ‘polished’ wind scoured ice to test the edge bite on. No problems at all. That has way more to do with having brand new edges than my technique. I always detune the tips and tails of my new skis or even after an edge tune. As a lazy skier who seldom completes a turn properly, I hate grabby tails especially. Whilst I have never been able to get my edges back to ‘as new’ I think if you look after them and remove burrs etc ice and hardpack shouldn’t be a problem. I know for sure if I put some time into improving my skiing technique, that that would have far more of a positive effect on my own ‘ice’ skiing ability tan the width of my skis.
    Ps. I haven’t done much racing but I would race for a ski tour company in Austria when they would hold inter company race days. I once borrowed a pair of race tuned gs skis. Absolute death traps. Gave them back after two runs. I couldn’t disengage the edges. Bloody terrifying tucking in a straight line for all your worth and having the ski keep running straight as you try to take a high speed corner.
     
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  28. Spence

    Spence One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I’m not sure if this is wondering off topic.
    One of my least favourite aspects of skiing is frozen cat tracks. One of the big disadvantages of having good, sharp edges is how grabby they can be when skiing long, refrozen (and usually narrow) cat tracks. I don’t think I have really heard anyone else mention this before. It’s supposed to be the easy ‘in between’ bit of skiing, but frozen, narrow, rutted cat tracks terrify me. I actually dread having to come kilometres down a mountain on them (like in Japan this year). When you have good edges your skis don’t like running flat on frozen ruts.
    My feet also cramp to buggery.
     
  29. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah don’t agree but I respect you and your opinion so all good!
     
  30. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I think one thing that seems more likely in Australia and NZ than say Japan or the west coast US is where the snow is still almost slushy when groomed due to our daytime temperatures then freezes hard when the temperature drops to well below zero in the hours before dawn. I found with the demos I did that a lot of wider "all mountain" skis may not naturally grip this surface unless you are really on top of your game and pressing down hard, while a few would do so without much effort.
     
  31. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yeah don’t agree but I respect you and your opinion so all good!

    Oh! and I'll throw in a "Love ya big fella".

    I'm wasn't disagreeing with you re width underfoot, so much. Let's just say I'm not wedded to the concept. I'm skiing narrower underfoot now than I was a couple of years ago but it's the whole skiing "ice morning" concept. Most mornings are going to be firm but they generally soften as the day draws on. Hence your sleep in quote.

    So do you buy a ski for the morning and one for the afternoon. Don't answer that @Annabuzzy because I know you do but most don't. So my point is, ski what you want. At some point in the day you'll have the right ski and 1 or 2mm either side ain't going to break the bank.
     
  32. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    This I do agree with, and it's why I ski on 88-90mm skis. I've gone up to ~100 and even though yes things do soften in the afternoon, that year we had a cold and dry spell with firm snow and the skis were uncomfortably wide.
     
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  33. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yeah a lot of wide all mountain skis are shite at holding an edge, this is due to their weak torsional rigidity. Some aren't;););)

    Even so, give it a hour with a mountain full of punters and the snow good again.

    I'm in the enviable position to be able to ski lots of skis over the course of a day or a week or a month or a season which I do regularly. In a season I will regularly ski everything from 79mm to 115mm underfoot here in Australia and honestly, I have my favourites but they're generally terrain driven not snow condition driven.

    If I was to pick my preferred all mountain ski for resort on/off piste with a bit of touring thrown in it would be the DPS Cassiar 94. With the new Wailer 100 a close second. This probably indicates my preference to ski off piste more than some. But it's also not 80 underfoot. I keep all of my skis tuned so they're all as they should be, so it's the skis characteristics that I'm comparing not their tuning. I accept that the mornings going to be firm but really it doesn't enter my head that much, maybe because it's a given.
     
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  34. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This :thumbs: Lumping all 90-100cm skis together or all 100+ together, and generalising about the behaviour makes no sense at all. Some are stiff, they have different sidecut, camber, rocker, radius and more subtle geometry changes. The variations are endless.

    Yes, you can make generalisations, but they will probably be wrong as often as they will be right.

    So to answer the OP's question, IMHO he will be fine skiing the Head Kore 99cm ski in Oz. I wouldn't say that about every 95-100cm ski out there. Also, I wouldn't say that about every 70-75cm carver either;)
     
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  35. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just gotta say, waiting for a pair of DPS Cassiar Alchemist 94 to arrive around the time of the next decent snowfall- hoping that's later this week. Better skis probably won't make me a better skier, (lessons and more practice might help) but they should be fun. In the end, that's what it's about.
     
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  36. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    They'll make you a better skier and considerably more attractive to the opposite sex.

    Your wife will just have to live with it but the amount of propositions you get when riding DPS skis in incredible. Perhaps they just think your either a dentist or a doctor.;)

    But seriously folks if you're struggling to attract a partner be it male or female get on some DPS skis and your world will change.:D
     
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  37. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Way too wide, and too short.

     
  38. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know you said don’t reply but I do want to say I ski my Brahmas 90% of the time in Oz and there’s no morning and arvo skis. Once or twice aside whatever I start the day with I finish the day with ;) :)
     
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  39. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    yes one hasn’t lived till they’ve tried to tele Federation’s (Buller) mogul fields on skinny 210s and floppy leather boots and say a pattern base. ;):p

    is it any wonder I don’t mind skiing shorter, fatter, Rockered tele skis these days? And wider (on piste) skis tend to be heavier and help to smash through funky, sticky, irregular snow, while lighter ones can get pushed around by the same conditions. :confused:
     
  40. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Not going to argue but those who are carvers know when a ski is too wide.
    The rest can skid on their fashionable skis.
     
  41. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    My old APSI colleagues would refuse to ski on an ~88mm ski in Australia and fundamentally think that we are doing the wrong thing by putting the majority of people who walk in to a ski store on them.

    But they’ve not encountered what it feels like to ski on uneven snow on legs with less than 200-250 days/yr on them, even with someone like me who did 10 years worth of 250 day/years but now is back in the realms of the mortals.
     
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  42. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

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    I did my level 1 on Nordica Enforcer 100s and it was funny to see the wildly different shape I would take down the mountain compared to everyone else on their sub 80mm skis (using the 'correct' technique).
     
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  43. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve seen that more than once.

    I recall one afternoon group lesson I did say three years ago with just me and another guy. The instructor said to the other guy “Your skis are too wide you should think of getting narrower skis...like his” (gesturing to me). I was on my Brahmas at 88. The other guy was on 80mm wide skis (I can’t specifically remember which ones).

    My take away was to reaffirm instructors like narrower skis, and they’re not necessarily across all ski models.
     
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  44. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    One of the ski brands I buy from has a couple of pretty senior instructors who are old friends working on the trade show stand each year. It’s a bit of a running joke that I listen to them talk about the skis that they like skiing on, and I order (and sell) a shit ton of the other range of skis.
     
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  45. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    What's the sidecut on 'em?

    Turn Radius?
     
  46. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    0

    infinity
     
  47. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know Zippo about ski racing - except for the odd Olympic & World Cup coverage.

    But I wonder if there’s a sort of a snobbery (for want of the right word) in the sport linked to ski (yes ski!) length and width?

    So one is definitely ‘more of a Man, or Woman’ on a longer, narrow waisted ski, where as skiers on All-Mtn planks are ‘recreational Hacks’ (less worthy?). No? o_O

    By the way, being on teles, I endorse the chilled, sleep in, ice-avoiding approach, so I get the slush and lumps. This suits my wider All-Mtn ski approach. Besides, I have enough ice rash scars on my arms from Concrete, Er Coronet Peak. ;):confused:
     
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  48. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    It’s kind of snobbery, a skilled operator can ski skinny skis anywhere.

    I learned to ski powder, and became quite proficient on 200cm 60-something mm waisted GS race skis.

    Would I want to do that again? Hell no! Even though I could, wider skis mean I waste less energy meaning I can do more runs in a day and more days in a holiday.

    Narrow skis are like a scalpel for the mountain, one of the best skis I used in my instructing days was a Nordica Dobermann 165cm Slalom ski, circa 2006 vintage, I’ve still got them in a cupboard at work though they are totally dead.

    But to ski on them you need to be supremely balanced and light on your feet, and that takes both skills and fitness. A wider platform is more forgiving and easier on the body.

    Bernd Greber is the best skier I’ve skied with in an instructing sense: (Phil / Steve Mahre and Glen Plake probably take the overall crown), sadly he passed away in 2001, I’d love to see him on modern skis:



     
  49. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have to confess I always felt that the instructor preference for narrower skis was about them feeling it was easier to teach and learn fundamental ski technique on those narrower skis. I’ve never 100% explored what that meant specifically but I assumed they had in mind somewhere in the range of 75mm-80mm underfoot, rather than race skis per se.
     
  50. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'd guess about 50m. No idea of the sidecut, they were @climberman's skis. He may remember the dims.
     
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