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HELP needed to identify irresponsible snowboard - Falls Creek - 30-06-13 - 2PM

Discussion in 'Falls Creek' started by Sierra_Crew, Jul 1, 2013.

  1. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bob, I'm not a fan of the litigious response, but if this guy has stuck around, shown some concern etc I am sure no one would be searching for him. The fact that he caused a major accident resulting in hospital treatment being required and BAILED makes him a danger on the slopes. Next time it could be worse!

    If for no other reason to be made aware of the consequences of his actions to the person he hit, and be strongly reminded of the Alpine Code and his responsibility under that code.

    Accidents happen... but reduce negligence and you'll reduce the real nasty accidents.
    You've got to ski/ride in such a manner that you can avoid smashing into other people; need to allocate space around them so that if they change direction or fall you can avoid them... It is possible to ski fast - hammer it - and still meet this requirement. But there are too many who think the priority is to go fast - not to be in control (with the full Alpine Code definition of being in control)

    People flock to help others when they fall (or are involved in a collision) even when they have no involvement. its what we do - taking ownership of the mountain environment and responsibility for making at pleasant an experience as possible for people.

    Leaving the scene of an accident is wrong in so many ways.
     
    #51 LMB, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  2. BobGnarly

    BobGnarly One of Us

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    I totally agree.
    But with people so fast to jump on the I'll sue you band wagon its no wonder people try and make a fast get away. IMO it encourages hit and runs.
     
  3. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'd prefer vigilante justice rather than a lawsuit but our society regrettably does not support that.
     
  4. BobGnarly

    BobGnarly One of Us

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    [​IMG] maybe we arent so different after all.

    I think the focus should be placed on helping out your fellow rider, not on who has to wear the blame.
     
    #54 BobGnarly, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  5. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah it's all about education in the end.

    Plenty of snow-sliders have grown up on the snow, been part of formal education through snowsports schools etc and know what's right and what's wrong. Part of this education is an understanding of the underlying etiquette and culture of the snow.

    But there's an entire subset who have bypassed this for one reason or another and think that they have a divine right to behave as they please on the slopes. And that's not cool.

    DWD talks before about the surf line-up - I've heard the same, there are deeply entrenched traditions about how to behave which are accepted amongst the wider community, yet the odd flamboyant_expletive who does not want to play ball.
     
    #55 CarveMan, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  6. hpsauce

    hpsauce A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    If some people require the threAt of a lawsuit or a summary flogging in order to behave themselves....then I'm ok with that. So I'm ok with someone being sued for acting with such careless disregard for others.
    What would you say if a errant surfer just charged their board into the flagged area slicing up someone? Harden up? Or kick that guys ass and sue him?
     
  7. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bob Gnarly is the only person in this thread mentioning law suits. He's done it about 10 times, and gets almost no response. So what's the story Bob? What's your problem? Why are you antsy about legal action? The OP has said he wants the dh to pay his medical bills. Do you think he shouldn't face the consequences of his actions?

    If the guy was half decent, he would have stayed with the OP at least until the ski patrol arrived, and would have been fully co-operative with them. Then he would have been concerned re the OP's outcome, apologised profusely and offered as a minimum to pay his medical bills. Then the OP may have been more accommodating and forgiving.
     
  8. Sierra_Crew

    Sierra_Crew First Runs

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    Thanks to all that have shown support.

    For those that do want to help me track down this snowboarder and are a facebook user, could you please like this page that I have set up to try find him.

    https://www.facebook.com/FallsCreekHitAndRun
     
    #58 Sierra_Crew, Jul 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  9. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    You need to have a chat to Arthur buddy. He is crossposting the same stuff on your behalf with no idea that you are already here.
     
  10. Arthur86

    Arthur86 First Runs

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    Sorry not be being an active forum poster -_- but goo to know it's already going
     
  11. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Good on you Sierra for having a go at tracking this w*nker down.

    Totally agree with Teks and Carveman.

    BobG....get a grip.
     
  12. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Takes a village to raise a child. Some children are ignored and never grow up.

    Like this person who ran away from a responsibilty.
     
    #62 VSG, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  13. DJM

    DJM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Give me backcountry any day over the mess of humans here.
     
  14. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm no advocate of "ambulance chasers" and suing people at the drop of the hat but perhaps lets take another view on your comment here.

    If people took more care to ski within their abilities and to the conditions and then, in the event they did hit someone, stuck around to make sure everything was ok and took responsibility for damage they caused ( just like a car or workplace accident) then maybe people wouldn't need to sue as much ......

    #justsayin [​IMG]

    Man, I'd have love to have seen some surf "etiquette" dealt out after that accident last year but unless I'm mistaken, belting the crap out of people is against the law.............
     
    #64 luvthabumps, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  15. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    So surely the resort, Mt Buller in this case has some responsibility to protect others by not selling a ticket to this individual (who I think is well known to ski patrol etc)?
     
    #65 TOFF, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2013
  16. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    You've got to wonder if Bob Gnarly doesn't know the guy
     
  17. loklok

    loklok One of Us

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    In response to the OP:

    Which boarder was it? In your video there are about half a dozen.
     
  18. EvilTeddy

    EvilTeddy Hard Yards

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    It's definitely a really sh*tty situation, sorry that you were injured Sierra, this just shouldn't happen. I always stop and help people who have been collected (never by me) or even if newbies fall over. Even though I am someone who loves to ski fast, I will always ski in control. I would much rather fall over by myself (and only cause injuries to me) than to cause an injury to someone else.

    I do have a question though about injuries on the mountain... If you needed first aid/hospitalisation, wouldn't it be covered under Medicare? I know the lost time from work etc wouldn't be, but all treatment should be covered, so there shouldn't be a huge amount of medical expenses?

    As for all of the legal talk, I'm not a lawyer in my wildest imaginations, but negligence would surely come into it, as could reckless grievous bodily harm? Hit and runs are a really low act on the slopes, and unfortunately it seems that it is each person for their own and don't care about what damage they've done. Not trying to be stereotypical, but it does seem more like it's the snowboarders who just get up and go, than the skiiers...

    And punishment for the person who just left the scene of the incident, a ban until the end of the season sounds good, as well as covering any medical treatments (that need to be paid out of pocket). If you enforce hard, maybe people will behave themselves more, and if they do cause an incident (with or without injuries), then they will take responsibility for their actions.
     
  19. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Agree with most everything else you said.
    The schema with which you view the world can influence what you see in this regard. And there's really no point perpetuating old stereotypes.

    Across Japan, NZ, Aus, and Europe every time myself or one of my family members has been taken out to any decent extent it has been by a skier. On a number of occassions we have then been abused despite them clearly being at fault and being told so by unrelated bystanders (or their own mates). More often we are ignored, given the dirty look and a heap of attitude. On two occasions they have got up and gone, yelling abuse and not checking if we were ok.

    Once it was my youngest son who was hit by a middle aged woman, and she had speared him mid body - he was under instruction in the park by my older son, learning the right steps and safety procedures before dropping...he had gone over a jump when she appeared from the side and hit the jump at an angle on her way through, collecting him along the way. Older son was horrified and fully expected him to be seriously injured and rushed to his side. He was laying in the snow not moving. The woman got up and skied off. He was 12 years old. Once the older son ascertained his baby brother was ok he looked up ready to give the woman a serve for unsafe practices in the park but she had gone.

    If I were to interpret the statistics based on my personal experience I would say skiers are the worst offenders!
    But I am not as closed minded as that! There are asshats and angels on one plank and on two planks. Open your eyes and you'll see them.

    Having recently started learning to ski I have noticed some interesting things....other skiers are much more likely to talk to me (than when I was on one plank), and when I have stacked it and lost poles/skis it has been the boarders who have stopped and collected them for me while I was getting up.

    Good and bad in all disciplines.
     
    #69 LMB, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  20. Draizuh

    Draizuh One of Us

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    Wow. This thread is full of idiots.
    Snowboarding and Skiing is a dangerous sport. Pretty sure it says that on the back of your lift pass. Injuries are going to happen. Not if, but when.
     
  21. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Draizuh, so you condone running into someone, injuring them and fleeing the scene?

    Is this just on snow or driving as well?
     
  22. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's a bit harsh.
    Yes it is. And it's everyones responsibility to look out fr each other on the hill.
    If you are involved in a collision - no matter how minor, no matter whose at fault, you get up and ask the other person if they are OK.
    It's common courtesy, but even more so in Alpine sports.

    Maybe it's just me, but unless it looks like there are heaps of people helping and they have everything under control, I always stop for a ski accident, for a car accident etc. It takes very little to holler 'you OK?'.
     
    #72 LMB, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  23. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Best of luck pushing that one.

    I have been saying the same about:
    cyclists / motorists

    For years here but some people refuse to acknowledge.

    <span style="font-size: 8pt">But for the record I agree with you.</span>
     
    #73 Ian D, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  24. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    This can all be distilled to.......
    There are asshats and angels
     
  25. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You're really showing signs of ignorance, Draizuh.
    Accidents and stupidness does happen - it's also what you do after the incident that shows what type of person you are.
    Move off leaving a person on the ground - scum!
     
  26. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    We've just got to keep at it Ian.
    I refuse to stay silent when the old fashioned stereotypes are whipped out as if they are truth.

    Said tongue in cheek I can have a laugh also, but sadly heaps of people still actually believe it.
     
    #76 LMB, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  27. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes.
    Yes it can.
     
    #77 LMB, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  28. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    100%

    And people can be the cause of an accident without intention, without being totally stupid. Catch an edge, not correct quickly enough. It can end in a nasty mess. It's not just the idiots that cause them.

    It's the way you deal with it in the end.
    Stick around and be NICE.
     
    #78 LMB, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  29. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The OP has wilfully left out any details of what he was doing. This is sus.

    He claims 100% the other persons fault.


    Was he standing in the middle of a run?

    Had he entered a run without looking up?

    His f/book page shows him to be a muay thai wannabe? Were his friends abusing and threatening the other guy?

    The guy initially stayed. What did the op's friends do and say in that time?


    I'm not prepared to convict the guy who left based on the one-sided holier than though account of the op.

    Instead of giving us the full story, he has just given us a sanitised version of his own judgement.
     
  30. nick12

    nick12 Addicted

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    Agree 100% Crackson. No idea who was at fault or what happened. No one can judge the snowboarder without knowing the full story.
     
  31. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    I'd be pissed if someone crashed into me...but I don't think i'd start a FB page about it.

    I can't get too riled up until I see a video of the actual crash.
     
  32. conradskis

    conradskis One of Us

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    What is the size of the medical bill you are seeking to claim from this person? Unless it's over about $10K it is probably not worth the cost and effort you will expend trying to get the money.

    For all the bush lawyers out there - the Alpine Responsibility Code does not create any rights between skiers. What that means is - if someone loses control and runs in to you and hurts you, the fact that the ARC says they are obliged to avoid you and not crash into you does not in and of itself mean you will be able to successfully sue them.

    Why? Because you have not entered into any legal agreement with the other skier that you will follow the ARC. The resort seeks to incorporate the ARC into your conditions of entry, by including a condition that you comply with the ARC. You have a contract with the resort. This means that if you try to sue the resort, they will almost always raise as a defence that the fact you had an accident meant you weren't complying with the ARC as you were required by contract. (Generally though it doesn't help them much - see for example this recent case.)

    However you don't have a contract with the other skier. What their obligations and responsibilities are towards you in this situation will be determined by the general law of negligence. What chance you have of succeeding depends on the full facts. The ARC may be relevant to establishing the sort of precautions that the boarder should have been taking to avoid being liable in negligence, but the fact that he may have broken the ARC is not the end of the matter.
     
    #82 conradskis, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  33. Stratus

    Stratus A Local

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    Agree [​IMG]
     
    #83 Stratus, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  34. Draizuh

    Draizuh One of Us

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    Thanks to all for jumping to conclusions about me. Fantastic work.
    Im simply stating that it is a dangerous sport.
    Ive seen people ski into fixed objects such as lift huts, snow cannons, terrain park features, trees etc ive also seen someone ski into a rope and removed the teeth from their bottom jaw and given themselves a chelsea smile. And there was that one women that had a fall and had a miscarriage because of it.
    So whats the overall lesson here? Accidents happen. Sliding down mountains on snow is dangerous. Icy skinny man made snow tracks like what is currently on offer at falls are extremely dangerous.
    Yes the guy could have stuck around, whats that going to achieve? is he going to be arrested? no
    Can you force him to pay medical bills? No.
    So please tell me what the end result of this post is likely to be? Is punching him in the face going to solve anything? No.
    He could have followed the snow code, but as pointed out by crackson this guy is forcing all 100% fault on the other guy.
     
  35. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    feel free to ski into as many fixed objects as you desire .... only thing that is not excusable is running into people. No excuse at all, just indicates you are just an asshat on a plank or planks.

    No excuse at all for running into people.
     
  36. mick chopps

    mick chopps Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Agree Dr.

    There are inherent risks with skiing but they are largely dependent on your own decisions and shouldn't be dependent on the irresponsible or reckless behavior of others. To leave the scene of any accident of the severity described here, regardless of fault, is at the very least a cvnt act. You wouldn't do it on the road so there's no excuse to do it on snow. Irrespective of what his friends might've said.
     
  37. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don't actually find resort skiing a &quot;dangerous sport&quot; at all.

    Quite the contrary. (except middle rock garden, there is some bad vibe in there)
     
  38. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'd have to politely disagree Duck
    I can recall in Italy I was skiing down from a higher lift point and came to a tight ridge where there was a chair unload
    Lots of folks milling about in various levels of downhill readiness
    I worked my way through into what I thought was a clear path when a young skier shot out of a knot of skiers BACKWARDS!
    He'd obviously pushed back hard with his poles
    Well the resultant mess was messy (thankfully it was relatively low speed)
    The father threatened to punch me and there were tears and recriminations, but to this day I'm not sure how I could have avoided that situation other than unclipping and walking downhill
    Perhaps I should have.
     
    #88 MisterMxyzptlk, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  39. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    An option is that he was simply unaware of how much damage he had done, decided help was already on hand and there was nothing else he could do.

    Im in no way defending him or his actions and personally I think he should have stayed around to be 100% sure but maybe, he was a 15 year old kid who simply acted as I said above?
     
  40. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Ok so the crash goes like this. Hypothetical
    OP is stopped in the middle of run.
    He is crashed into...its an accident.. Its hard to prove reckless without a video.
    I've crashed into people before. Often its a choice of a big guy or a kid ..Sometimes it can't be avoided.
    I had a woman on planks hockey stop on a cat track, literally as I was passing on the left.. Even after yelling. &quot;on your left on your left&quot;.. She stopped on a dime..a bear hug later and an angry husband a few sorrys.. and I was off..It was as far as I'm concerned her fault.
    People stop in the stupidest spots. Compounded by minimal snow.
    So the guy goes down.
    A curt &quot;sorry mate are you ok?&quot; is offered.
    yeah i'm ok.
    At that point you'd ski away wouldn't you?
    Accidents happen.
     
  41. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm with Donza on this
     
  42. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Fair enough, but what if they didn't respond at all?

    Curt &quot;sorry mate are you OK?&quot;
    silence

    Then what?

     
    #92 Ian D, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  43. Benn0

    Benn0 Old n' Crusty

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    A tough one, I have run into someone once or twice, I offer to help them up and all is good. If they were as injured as this guy was I'd be hanging around and providing assistance, even if it was my fault. Just as you do in a car accident.

    Trying to prove whose fault it is could be difficult, we know very little about it, but I think SC is justified in at least wanting to try and find out who they were.
     
  44. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Well sometimes &quot;are you OK&quot; is even Rhetorical.
    Most people consider if your limbs are attached... you're conscious and ambulant and look ok....well.....your'e ok.

    I'm not making excuses for the other guy.. however ive seen some truely blase people at times.
     
    #94 Donza, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  45. BobGnarly

    BobGnarly One of Us

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    Oh please teckel.
    I have just expressed my opinion, get over yourself.
    exactly
     
    #95 BobGnarly, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  46. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds like you're tailgating donza and riding beyond your ability if you can't stop.
     
    #96 parkmonkey, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  47. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    You got it. I even have a horn...meep meep

    Hows your skiing career going again? I thought you were teaching P this season?
     
    #97 Donza, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  48. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    As long as you have a gopro on, you're an expert.
     
  49. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    This
    Every second man and their dog on the weekend at Perisher.
     
    #99 Donza, Jul 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  50. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well that’s the crux of the matter. How we all approach different moving situations within our ability to avoid the unexpected

    Does snow pixie go to slow snow plough as he cautiously threads himself through a group milling about ?
    Does Donza forgo his forward momentum so as not to be in a tight passing situation ?
    Do I slow it right up and look uphill at the bottom of bunny walk or heaven forbid at the bottom of PB summit chair with all those people milling about and cross trails converging.

    It’s a live beast the old sharing the hill with others. A bit like a Bathurst supercar race mixed in with historic, commuter and L plate drivers.

    IMHO this poor bloke was hit on an open slope next to a slow sign with enough force to knock him flat and cut him up. Shouldn’t happen, no excuse.

    Stay safe
    Happy skiing