Question Hiking up Hannel's spur this green season 2018-19

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Mister Tee on XC Skis, Sep 23, 2018.

  1. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    Hi. I am asking the panel about Hannel's spur (SIC). I am going to grovel up this track this coming green season. How much of the track has been cleared?. Has the work been completed so that it is clear the whole way ? OR is there is bush bashing from hell still involved?
     
  2. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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  3. zapruda

    zapruda Hard Yards

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    6km of moderate to heavy scrub to start marked by the occasional pink ribbon and then 300m before Moiras the track is cut nicely to just around the treeline. After that it is marked with cairns but you don’t really need them from that point. See my trip report for pics and notes. I walked it just after the track was cleared in April 2018.

    http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=27627
     
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  4. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    I feel this may be a lost cause. He is still a young man by most standards but it will cost him later in life. At least his current trip to India is taken care of with porters. Perhaps there will be some spiritual en'light'enment on this journey also and he will come back seeing the benefits of carrying less. Anyway, I'm off to Bogong for a few days. 15kg pack.
     
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  5. Ubiquitous Steve

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    If only one could get Visas for overseas folk willing to act as porters....Team Bears loves the idea!
    Special modified agricultural visas..:whistle:
     
  6. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    Yes bring the Nepali porters here. They all work as porters in India's Himalaya. The are willing to carry what is like two refrigerators , each, strapped to their foreheads. I might consider leaving the guitar behind for Hannel's spur. It looks like December might be the month this green season.
     
  7. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Enjoy! Go light-weight so you can charge up - doing the biggest vert on the mainland with a lightweight pack makes sense. If you’re doing it in Dec. all you need is a flysheet and raingear along with a light bag - you could leave the tent.

    http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=58 (Ultra-light thread) (off-topic alert)
     
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  8. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I will look at getting a lighter 3 seasons tent for green seasons rather than hauling the full 4 seasons blizzard proof beast around in summer weather.
     
  9. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Mont Moondance one person: 1.53 kg.

    https://www.mont.com.au/moondance-1-tent-mystic-blue

    Superb tent
     
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  10. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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  11. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Wilderness Shop (Ex Bogong partner shop ) in Box Hill might still have them on sale...
    http://wildernessshop.com.au/
     
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  12. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Welcome to the light side...
     
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  13. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    Gore Tex Bivvy is what you need for that kinda travel.
     
  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    The Computer says NO to that thingy.
     
  15. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    [​IMG]
    SALEWA Tents

    Salewa Denali II



    Salewa Micra II

    [​IMG]
    The Salewa Denali II offers all the features at an excellent price. Semi mesh doors and two high vents for air flow. The Denali II is a 2 person tent that weighs in at 2.73kg.
    $429.95 SALE $299.95

    [​IMG]

    The Salewa Micra II is small, stable and holds up to wind well. The Two side vents allow for Maximum air circulation. The Micra Is a 2 person tent and weighs 2.30 kg $439.95

    Because I am a large person I think a lighter 2 person tent might be better.
     
  16. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    Outdoor Research Alpine bivvy .
     
  17. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Much like - 907 g.
     
  18. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Don’t discount bivi bags, mine is a north face bag at circa 400g matches with a down blanket (500g) its a pretty light set up I’ve used well into the negatives.

    I also love our tarp tent, 1.2kg for a two person tent and you can drop the inner and just carry the fly.
     
    #18 zac150, Nov 2, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  19. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I am never going to become some kind of ultra light nut. Just a lighter green season tent would be better. Any 3 seasons tent under 2.5 kgs would be light for me.
     
    #19 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Nov 2, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  20. Townsend

    Townsend One of Us

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    We walked down Hannel’s Sour in either 2006 or 2007.It was when the regrowth after the fires was about 3-4 metres high and it was almost impossible to see the track or even your hiking partner!

    My husband said that anyone who walked up it would have to have ‘tofu for brains’. As he is a real meat eater that was his greates insult!

    Hopefully the track will be much clearer now.
     
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  21. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    A tent lets you retreat from the flys.
     
  22. GS

    GS A Local
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    and in summer a tent lets you regulate temperature, airflow etc better than a bivy bag....imo.

    Really happy with the Tarptent Moment and its sub 1kg weight
     
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  23. Ubiquitous Steve

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    The insects will be out to get you as your sweaty bodies crawl up the long climb....

    Most folk too....
    Delerious to remember how to pitch a tent.....they just fall in feotal position and wake up next morning with a desire to drink another gallon of water!
     
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    As I feared. It is a lost cause. It is not the expectation of being an ultra-light, just a moderately light. The best thing is for people to work it out themselves but in the meantime, no whinging about it. You have options. Once it is on your back then it is your problem but don't ask others to wait for you.
     
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  25. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture
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    Perhaps because I had prepared myself for the worst, I didn't find Hannels Spur all that gruelling. Yes it was hard, but I didn't find it any harder than climbing The Staircase on Mt Bogong or North West Spur on Feathertop.

    I appreciate that most people here are at least as experienced as I am, but I've found that the lightweight fad is most popular with people who've only carried a pack for a few dozen nights. To me, it seems that lightweight stuff isn't durable and can't put up with much punishment. I've seen lightweight packs get torn on pack hauls in the Western Arthurs and lightweight tents leak like sieves in the Eastern Arthurs. Now admittedly that's about as extreme as on track hiking gets, but it's interesting that people on those trips with snow tents made by reputable brands and with canvas packs suffered no problems.

    Now for summer walking on tracks in the High Country of the mainland, snow tents and even canvas packs may be unnecessary, but I'd strongly advocate that going to the other extreme of super lightweight gear is rather unwise.
     
  26. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I am looking at getting a lighter tent. How can that make me a lost cause? I am a lost cause when it comes to XC skiing. I love it and plan to do nothing else next white season.:p
     
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  27. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    A Canvas pack and a 4 seasons tent that is bullet proof. That is me !!
     
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  28. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    It’s not about being a nut, for me it was about enjoying the walk more and kg’s Off the back will do that.

    As something needed replacement I replaced with a lighter option.

    A few years back I met a 70 year old who basically said going light was his only option to stay hiking. So I guess in a few years I’ll change over again to lighter gear to ensure in 30+ years I’m still going strong.
     
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  29. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    Yes, as I need to replace things I will seek out a lighter item.
     
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  30. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture
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    Nope, thats not for me. Over several hundred days of use, I actually managed to wear out an ultra durable, single compartment, 75 litre, MacPac canvas pack...

    ... and I replaced it with... a 78 litre, single compartment, Mont canvas pack, not because I was dissatisfied with the MacPac in any way, but because I found that the Mont harness fitted my body shape a little better.
     
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  31. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    I have a MONT canvas back pack. It is very large , tough and quite comfortable.
     
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  32. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    The voice of reason, logic and experience ... completely out of place in an onLine forum - if there ever was a reoportable post this has got to be it!
     
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  33. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Good basic gear - nothing can beat the designs and materials that are the outcome of generations of cumulative experience tailor-made for local conditions...
     
  34. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    +1 I found Hannels more manageable than the Viking or Buggery or the Grey Hills....once I was on the path following the markers....
     
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  35. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    Comfort, weight distribution and design over weight itself - the essence of a backpack.

    Hipbelts - what an innovation!

    Still - got a big Lowe 37L Alpineday-pack, a lighter Osprey 85L overnighter and a more robust Lowe Alpine 75-96 L overnighter, AND a 11L Camelbak.... miss my old style 40L Karrimor - the convenience of all those side-pockets.

    I remember my first non-descript lightweight canvass H Frame - inherited from a uni. friend and restitched by hand so I could take it overseas..luxury.

    Restitching shredded back-packs and tents - the only macho form of sowing my testosterone fuelled ego can cope with - buttons? Nah!
     
  36. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture
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    Well it's a fairly short trip with no super long climbs over the Grey Hills and Mt Arthur (known as Mt Arsehole until c.1938 when the Kiewa Hydro surveyors decided they couldn't have such a vulgar name on their maps... but I digress.) I must have been unusually fit when I did that route as it didn't strike me as that hard.

    Likewise the Mt Buggery track is painfully sharp, but it's a relatively short climb, even from the Speculation side. I've only been down the off track Queen Spur route, so I can't comment on how hard it would be going up.

    The only one in that list that has caused me real pain is climbing The Viking from the Barry Mountains side. It's certainly the steepest sustained climb I've experienced outside Tassie and the dirt slides away under your feet, leaving you with a sense of futility.

    But even that climb is only a few hours, so there is the metaphorical "light at the end of the tunnel", you always feel you're a getting a little closer to the top. It's the super long sustained climbs with a heavy pack like Hannels Spur or The Staircase that require real psychological strength to keep plodding upwards despite the feeling that you're not making much progress.

    P.S. I'd become a bit of a fan of Chaeron, so I was disappointed when he revealed that he doesn't own a modern design canvas pack. I think owners of canvas packs view themselves as slightly above the common herd, a bit like owners of Apple electronic goods. ;)
     
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  37. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    Because you think getting a lighter tent and not taking the guitar will make all the difference. It is only the start. I still have a heavy Mont canvas pack and loaded for 4 days in the mountains everything weighed in at 17kg. I still think that is heavy but fortunately the Mont harness helps. I am not into ultra light gear either and I agree with @Bogong about its ability to hold up but there is still plenty of room for me to change and shave off some unnecessary weight in my pack. Don't get me wrong, it is totally up to you what you want to load on your back. I think, from what you write, you wear the weight you carry as some kind of badge of honour. There is also no doubt you are fit and quite used to carrying heavy loads. The time will come and it seems pointless to continue to try and change your mindset. There are a lot of other well meaning people who have been saying the same thing to you for a long time. When considering your new tent, maybe look at something that can pitch with just the fly and a footprint. That means you have more choices when it comes to those harder walks.
    You have plans to do Mulhauser to CC hut next winter. You best plan for an overnight stay on the Long Spur unless you can cut back or make sure you get started at the crack of dawn.

    The head strength is very important. A less fit person with good head strength will keep going forward when others give up. Many years of distance running has conditioned my mind so that now in my older years I can still keep going up but with a lighter load.
     
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  38. VSG

    VSG Pool Room
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    Needs moar map. For the great unwashed, south of the border, who think Eskdale and Staircase are a big deal.. Or that little pimple a bit further south... Northwest/Bungalow spurs... pfft. ;)

    1800m of vertical kids.



     
  39. Mister Tee on XC Skis

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    Whatever I carry up this hill I am going to do it this green season even if it takes me until Easter 2019 to get around to doing it. If shave all my pack weight down to about 20 kgs including food, fuel and water I think that is light for me. I currently weigh 90 kgs and stand 187 cms tall. So 20 kgs is less than a third of my body weight.I have been up and down the Staircase with a full pack in one day and was spent by the time I reached the bottom. I have some experience going up and down hills.
     
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  40. GS

    GS A Local
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    Light(er) weight equipment is no doubt less durable, but it's also infinitely easier and cheaper to replace than worn out body parts!
     
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  41. legend

    legend One of Us

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    After bushwalking for +45 years (and I've done a bit in that time - mostly off track and exploratory walks) light weight gear is amazing and enables me to continue walking after a car crash a few years ago.
    How many of you guys actually spend most w/es and longer walking through dense scrub? You might do a trip up Little Bogong, or drop off of the side of the eastern side of Speculation into the Terrible Hollow and climb back out via the Devils Staircase once a year, but do you really need a pack that weighs +4Kg and gear of more than 20Kg?
    I was one of these believers and even w/e packs were around the +20Kg
    (Btw Western Arthurs isn't that hard on gear - just your hands due to hanging on a lot, getting into the actual head of the Franklin River is a lot more difficult)
    My Osprey pack weighs just over a Kg, Tarptent around 1.2Kg, Zpacks sleeping bag 0.6Kg. This gear has survived a lot of abuse and yes, I have ripped my top pocket of my pack (once) when I was crawling under some extra thick and spiky scunge but it is easy to mend. Your body mostly shields your pack anyway when battling through this type of scrub and you don't often need to be a low crawling wombat to get through it.
     
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  42. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us
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    The 20% rule - a pack at more than 20% of body weight means less distance, more pain, less enjoyment. It’s then more about the pack and less about the journey.

    A pack at less than 20% increases range, pace, enjoyment.

    Fitness, strength, experience - of course they play their role.

    When BC skiing you can cover more distance in a day with a light pack than skiing with a heavy overnighter. And lighter patterned base skis matched with light boots which require fewer transitions increase pace and range even more.
     
  43. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    20kg means you are carrying beer?
     
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  44. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    I used to carry heavy packs, with beer, now if I tried to carry what I did in my 20s-30s (gear has come a LONG way) I would destroy my hips.
     
  45. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us

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    Yes you do and there is no denying that you have been up and down hills but you also said you did the staircase up and down with a full pack and you were spent. That tells me your experience is of not doing it right and you then pass that experience on to others. Doing something wrong for a long time does not make what you are doing right. I have read your trip reports and noted the distance you cover and the time it takes. @Chaeron is spot on. I have also noted the times we have taken on the same tracks. You are hours behind and then finish the day, dare I say it, 'Rogered'. Does that not tell you something. The Grey Hills is one example where we walked in further and it took 3 hours less. I would guarantee you are fitter than me but you can carry as much as you like for as long as your body holds out.
    It would be for someone else then as Mr. T does not drink alcohol.
     
  46. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Hmmm, tent/mat/sleeping bag/clothes, easy under 6kg without going stupid light/minimal? Thats a lot of food/toys. Or....BEER!
     
  47. Ubiquitous Steve

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    Now kids ....no bashing each other in the forum ....

    We can all agree on one thing......actually two...
    Take plenty of water.....start early before it gets too hot.

    Perhaos three....avoid any day of TFB..or very high temps !
     
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  48. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Beer has water in it.
     
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  49. Kletterer

    Kletterer Urban Chicken
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    Powdered/ freeze dried beer---- market !
     
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  50. Ubiquitous Steve

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    Just take pics if you can overcome the suffering!:whistle: