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Horses In National Parks, A Discussion.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I always answer the heritage argument with similar. I tell them if they were to hold true to this then they should do what their forebears did and shoot the feral horses. Then when it was too expensive to shoot they would gut them or slit the horses throats. Even today those who are trying to save them so hard (read Maguire and Connelly) used to run them and sell them off for dog meat. We have all these stories and more in books. In an earlier post I mentioned how once fences were common and then later when grazing was cut back in the National Parks, the feral horse went from pest to heritage icon. It really is a symbol of the ill feeling toward the authorities and now it has been used to drive all the starry eyed girls who love horses more than they probably should.

    Just sold one of ours today to a young lady. Hope she does not turn out like this. Did not raise the feral horse matter as it may have lost the sale.
     
  2. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Response: well we've moved since then else we would still have bear baiting, etc.... I went back with hopefully we've moved on the point of actually valuing the uniqueness of the flora and fauna of the Snowys.
     
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  3. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    They don't listen to any fact or reason for the simple fact their heritage connection is bullshit.
     
  4. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    A comment from Jill Pickering I think, 'No other animal on this earth has the connection to humans that horses do' or words to that effect. What about dogs? She went on to talk about horses carrying soldiers blah blah. Dogs go to war too. It is all about blinded perspective. The real reason would not cut it so just like the high country cattlemen, they have to think up some plausible crap to justify their position. In fact it is only 'I love horses, horses are special to me, I don't like seeing horses hurt.' Maguire on the other hand is using all this to further his own agenda which he will try when there is a change of government. I think the days of the Nationals having any relevance at a State level is over.
     
  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Let's hope The Nationals die like the pasture on the scorched earth of their paddock of duplicity
     
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  6. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  7. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    And problematic and not helpful.
     
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  8. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    That articles has been really poorly edited - referring to "Mr Maguire" before saying "Phil Maguire" being a clear and simple example of this.

    It also leans far too heavily into one side of the "story" rather than giving an equal hearing - something I would accept in an opinion piece, but not in a news article that should be reporting factual information

    It fails to mention that consultation was held regarding the Parks' plan for the management of the horses, so the "Benambra Buck Riders" had the ability then to make their voices heard.

    It fails to comment on these people deriving profit from animals that are running on public lands.

    The depiction of the captured horses and description of riding them down doesn't exactly make it look like they are lovers of animals so much as lovers of what the animals can do for them. If you are trying to tell me that these horses never get injured in the attempts to capture them, or that capturing them (which they describe as a difficult endeavour) is a viable method of population control, then you are dreaming.

    EDIT: After reading through the article again, I have lodged my first ever formal complaint to a news organisation, for reasons of a breach of the "Fairness and Balance" section of the Press Council Statement of Principles.
     
  9. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    The comments are overwhelmimgly negative towards the ferals. Running at about 28 negative to 2 positive.
     
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  10. teletripper

    teletripper Addicted

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    The first picture in that Age articles for me says it all. Look at how that mare and foal are being treated just to load them on the stock trailer. The whole ‘brumby running’, ‘buck running’, ‘roping’, however you wish to describe it , and its promotion by its proponents as being a legitimate humane population control approach and heritage activity claims is one of the worst animal welfare aspects of the whole sorry feral horse debate.

    The practice should be exposed and weighed critically against the very poor animal welfare outcomes for the animals involved, (both the pursued and those being used as part of the pursuit). The Independent Technical Reference Group as part of its background work in conducting comparative animal welfare assessments of control methods for wild horses for the KNP 2016 draft plan that was shelved due to political interference. https://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/...hash=A4CD3A8B54E486DE0B758E0884CDF22640E436D3
    The animal welfare impacts were rated as severe and it’s overall outcomes poor. As to be expected for an activity that involves what can be at times prolonged pursuit of a wild animal, then basically choking it down into submission with a neck rope, tying it to a tree until a halter can be placed on it. Then leading/dragging a highly stressed animal through the bush back to a trailhead where it can dragged onto a trailer for transport. From there it may be domesticated as child’s pony, or slaughtered by its captor to feed their working dogs if it is lucky, depending how you look at it. But hey, ‘that’s our high country heritage’. That’s the way my father, grandfather, great grandfather did it, so it should be my right to continue that archaic ‘heritage’ practice. This is what amongst other things led to the ban of brumby running in NSW Parks , and rightly so. Unfortunately it is also the basis of much of the angst between brumby activists and NSW Parks as the brumby activists want the activity back in the mix and legalised as the main control method in NSW.
    These are the same people that claim they love brumby horses and are concerned for their welfare and the same people that have opposed and prevented park management agencies for over 30 years controlling horse populations by ground shooting/ aerial shooting where the stress and time to death is over and done in seconds. Unfortunately the media and gullible public continue to lap up the dri-az-abone , akubra wearing mythology and narrative that they are experts on how horses should be managed. Go figure.
     
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  11. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The Age would not be the paper to put an article like this in anyway. More of a Herald Sun thing or Weekly Times. It would have received more favourable comment then. I think Sonia Buckley made a political error. I found an ABC doco from a while back which featured Craig Orchard (one of the Benambra Buck Runners) chasing down ferals in the snow. It was all staged at Dinner plain behind fences. You could see the fences. Free roaming horses are not very fit compared to the ones ridden often. They have no predator so there is no need to run. The chase may go on for a kilometre before a rope can be secured even so. Sometimes a winch is used to drag them onto the stock crate. It is cruel and Parks are steering away from it as a form of control.
    The article made it pretty clear it was a sport with the 'thrill' of chase and capture very important. As I said before, for these people it is also an income so it is doubly important. I have no respect for the RSPCA but it should be acting on this.
     
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  12. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  13. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  14. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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  15. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    On a recent Cooma Community facebook page, I couldn't help respond to a horse lover post about the culling of Brumbies and let fly. I expected a barrage of vitriolic negative comments, commensurate with organised groups but only had positive responses up until today. I wouldn't normally engage in Facebook discussions about such emotionally charged subjects, but it seemed to me that the folk of Cooma at pragmatic about the subject?
     
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  16. Newsteve

    Newsteve Early Days

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    Even the "Old Jindi families" are pragmatic and some of them did a bit of Brumby Running in their day. It seems there is only a small but very well organised and very vocal group intent on stopping or delaying any action against their beloved wild horses, and getting more and more park access for their pet ones. Also a few with vested financial interests (PC?). Unfortunately it is too easy to conclude that they are seen as either BFFs or a key voting block and have to be kept onside at any cost.
    Actions not unique to Australia.
     
  17. Newsteve

    Newsteve Early Days

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  18. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  19. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  20. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Brilliant. At least these people have been good for something.

     
  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Chuckle.
     
  22. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  23. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was none of this in Logans Run.
     
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  24. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Seems Mr Maguire might have crossed a line

     
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  25. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    What was the attack on Dr Norman?
     
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  26. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Enjoy! use the arrow on the right to flick through the posts -
     
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  27. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    What's "cowardly" about shooting feral horses? The description of it as a "massacre" is quite laughable.
    How do they think it should be done - no laser sights, no silencers, in the daylight? Or will that be "inhumane"?
     
  28. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I guess when you're clutching for anything to support your cause, this is the kind of stuff you trawl for at the bottom of the pond. This Maguire is truly a horse's arse.
     
  29. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Yet people are still giving him money to waste on his ego fight with parks no matter how many times he sabotages it.
     
  30. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    FWIW I've seen this kind of crusade before. In fact, I was part of one for around 3.5 years, where the lunatic on the one end just keeps going with court action after court action - VCAT - Supreme Court - Court of Appeal - High Court - Costs Court...

    it was all over a rural property she and her husband purchased in West Gippsland north of Warragul.

    She created a website with daily blog posts. She took the website down after the mediation failed in the defamation proceedings issued against her and it was on its way to trial. The defamation action stemmed from comments she published on her website.

    She has since created another website in which she defames pretty much everyone that had anything to do with the entire saga - including yours truly (I get an entire page devoted to me - aren't I lucky?!).

    The kind of behaviour being exhibited by Maguire is scarily similar to what this particular individual carried out between 2008 and 2018. They won't stop, despite losing time and time again and blowing hundreds of thousands in cash.
     
  31. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Clearly Maguire believes that the horses deserve a chance to fight back.
     
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  32. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  33. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Howitzer...
     
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  34. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  35. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    For matters of this nature it's standard practice to ask the client to deposit money in your firm's trust account before commencing the work.
     
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  36. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just a quick search and I found the Maguires’ Go Fund Me page:

    https://www.gofundme.com/f/bogong-brumby-save

    "We lodged an appeal in the Victorian Court of Appeal on 10th June.
    The hearing is on 19th June.
    Parks Victoria have undertaken not to attempt any shooting until the appeal is decided.
    With every week that passes the future of the brumbies is looking brighter."

    Over $90k raised.
     
    #886 Edgecrusher, Jun 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  37. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    As I used to say to customers who told me that they were fighting as a matter of principle "You are about to find out what your principles are worth". The only clients who were worse are those for whom you agreed to act pro bono (not all of them). The bad ones thought that, as there was no cost to them, they had the right to earbash you on a daily basis.
     
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  38. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Made the mistake of doing that once. Was going well until my barrister dropped his bundle under pressure from Dominic Villa SC.... not presenting compelling evidence so the judge didn't even have to consider the legal argument. My costs + respondent's costs on an indemnity basis + some family court shyte saw some serious negative equity :eek:
     
  39. Newsteve

    Newsteve Early Days

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    I am ignorant of these fund raising sites... but is there any limit or control on how the money is used? or can they just pocket it?
    I see an great money making opportunity...
     
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  40. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  41. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    A couple of things I'm keen to know:

    1. Will PV hold off with their shooting in order to allow Phil an opportunity to seek special leave of the High Court?

    2. Will the VSCA order costs against Phil on an indemnity base with his application for leave to appeal?
     
  42. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    I think shooting may now be delayed anyway due to onset of winter.
     
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  43. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us

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    Maguire ranting that China has interfered with his case...

    And some clarity from his wife.
     
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  44. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Perhaps we need to walk up to them and bash them to death with baseball bats or something! That would be inhumane. If I had to go quickly, a headshot at night from a silenced gun seems - well, significantly less traumatic.
     
  45. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    A lot of big talk from Phil in this last week about winning which was no doubt to encourage more people to throw their money down the toilet. Now Louise looking for a billionaire benefactor. It is getting hard to keep track of a man who changes his mind and his stories more times than a brides nightie goes up and down. What next? A High Court constitutional challenge. Now RR people are threaten
     
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  46. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Castle was not a documentary.
     
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  47. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maguire about to become an ex farmer.
     
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  48. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    Pretty sure I said that after the first case. Calling 3 Supreme Court Judges corrupt in a public forum is probably not a good idea. Would be interesting if they sued him for defamation as well.
     
  49. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    A simple contempt of court would suffice.
     
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  50. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    They probably won't give him that oxygen.