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Horses In National Parks, A Discussion.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don’t think a machine gun will be allowed.

    Had more than a few beers with a bloke who was both a pilot and a shooter on the NT Water Buffalo eradication program for several years, i think the whole program went for 10 years. My comments are based on his experience & talking with the SA Parkies involved with the long running goat eradication program in tne Flinders.

    Both environments are very different to Vico hilly & foresty bits and to some extent that’s my point.

    And I have done a fair bit of wandering about the Vico hilly & foresty bits.
     
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  2. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I chat regularly to the PV bloke running the deer control and they are well aware of the outcome for the helicopter trial before it starts but someone well above him made the call. Someone without much of a clue. Probably came from Spring Street. The ground shooting of deer on BHP has changed significantly since the trial started and some areas are just left alone because of the dense scrub. Most of the success has been with thermal imagery and night shooting in more open areas. The horse lovers will not blink an eye about helicopter shooting of deer but will cry foul and call the RSPCA if you try to cull horses the same way. Hypocrisy everywhere.
     
  3. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    I recall, with great sadness, the last few dozen brumbies being shot out of the Namadgi NP in the ACT, backing the northern KNP. Early 1980s.

    Why could they not round them up and sell/transport/re-home? the images were very confronting, horse carcasses, horses fatally wounded. Men in helicopters shooting them over a two week period. Near Corin Dam, Smoker's Gap and Corin Forest. So fukkin sad.

    Now we have the gung ho brigade at it again in the northern KNP. the fukkin govt (NSW) could make dollars out of this situation. Instead, lets kill the fn horses and let them rot.
     
  4. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Ever owned a horse? Ridden one?
     
  5. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Skiing. very bad. Don't do it in a national park like kossie.
     
  6. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    The only buyer for the Trapped feral horses in KNP for the last decade was the knackery in Albury. No one wants then. Why don't you care about the 140 000 race horses who are sent to the knackery each year.
     
  7. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Horses are fine in paddocks. Just like the cats, deer, dogs, pigs, foxes, rabbits in the Park they should be shot too.
     
  8. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes. From the age of four.
    This. There is nothing romantic about 6000 (and growing) horses fouling the water, trampling and eating the vegetation in one of our greatest national parks. It's a dereliction of duty by our current state government to be doing nothing about it.
     
  9. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    I dont support horse racing. Never did.
     
  10. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Well have shot foxes and rabbits. I guess I better shoot horses too.
     
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  11. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Team Bears will consult with the Doggers for some insight into eradication issues.

    The blackberries in the West Kiewa deter the Doggers from hunting in there because the undergrowth is just too thick.
     
  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perhaps we could set up horse cull program from Benembra aerodrome.
    Geehi strip may need a bit of a mow and further landing strip at Guthega .
    FOE will need to provide wind socks!
     
  13. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I do support the traditional management of feral horses.

    By traditional management, I mean the mobs "were driven into this long lane, at the end of which stood an expert, armed with a keen knife. As each animal passed, its jugular vein was severed, and the bleeding creature tore madly away into its native scrub, only to stagger and die from loss of blood within half a mile of the trap. This devise, though barbarous, did away with the difficulty of removing carcasses, and became the universal method of destruction."
     
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  14. Billy_Buttons

    Billy_Buttons Que Sera, Sera Ski Pass: Gold

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  15. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  16. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    [cartman_voice]
    Sweeaaaatt...
    [/cartman_voice]
     
  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Currently own 4 horses. Have ridden for more about 45 years, taught people to ride (still do), broken horses in, broken bones coming off, studied dressage, jumped, worked stock (mustering, droving and draughting), ridden mountain country, guided trail rides. I think I am qualified well enough to comment about horses. The bleeding hearts wanting to protect a feral pest are misguided horse lovers. I love my horses and they are in my paddocks unless I am riding and then they are under control.
     
  18. Greybeard

    Greybeard Addicted

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    Xplora, you are certainly not the first horse owner/rider I've come across that agrees that the current feral horse population is way out of control. Especially those that visit the mountains and witness it for themselves.
     
  19. Greybeard

    Greybeard Addicted

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    Undies, piolet and Untele-whippet like this.
  20. chrisj

    chrisj A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have it! Why don't we import some wolves and cougars from the US and release them in the park? They could clean up the horses and the deer. What could possibly go wrong?
     
  21. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    They would eat cane toads and die.
     
  22. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lots of cougars already roaming the night spots of Thredbo looking for young bucks.
     
  23. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    LOL
     
  24. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I took a horsey friend through Long Plain and she was not impressed with the damage or the horses. 'oh another horse' 'bit ordinary looking'. I have also been educating other horse people in the damage done and most can see there is no need for these horses to be there in such high numbers. Many are happy enough to see a few around but not in these numbers. It is also quite dangerous riding your own horse in areas with feral horses. I have seen the bite mark in a saddle from a feral stallion and know of one person who lost 2 horses to a feral mob. You would think riding mares would be a problem but the stallions will go the geldings as they see them as a threat. There are in fact many horse owners who will tell you these bleeding hearts do not speak for them.
    I feel at times people think that because you own a horse then you will support the 'no cull' team. Not so. I am in full support of the control or culling of any feral pest and actively engage in the practise on our property. We have not seen a rabbit or hare in years. Seems the foxes have gone and rarely see a dog now. Still some around. Also stuck into the cats and venison is often on the menu. The knackeries won't take the feral horses now because of the drama and they really don't need more horse flesh for dog food. Most horse owners don't want them because they are rubbish stock. A bullet is actually a kind thing for them in the end.
     
  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    The Alpine N.P. around Mt. F.T. is subject to closure for shooting feral beasties during October 2018 . That means skiing the Southerly and Eastern chutes in early October will be verboten.
    I will visit Mt.Pinnibar one day. It takes time to visit all of these places in the Oz Alps.
     
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  26. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Do they have an equivalent monument for : feral cats ; pigs ; dogs; rabbits; hares and foxes? I thought not.
     
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  27. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More woke than thou.
    Mr Tee, there's not a lot to see at Mt Pinnibar, it's one of those mid sized mountains that pops its head above the treeline like Stirling, Wills, Cobberas No.1, etc. But unlike Stirling and Wills it's rather remote and doesn't have much of a view (except for a non standard one of the Main Range). There are three (I think) 4WD tracks converging near the summit and no huts. The only reasons I went there was to tackle the route over the notoriously hard Hermit Range and to tick it off a peak bagging list of the 32~ish mountains in Victoria over 1700 metres. (I got them all by 12 years ago except for Mt Gibbo.)

    So I'd strongly advise people against going to Mt Pinnibar unless they want to tick it off a list, it's not that exciting and there are dozens of more interesting mountains to go to.
     
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  28. Red_switch

    Red_switch Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: 30 Day

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    We very nearly did this in NZ to control deer. I'm glad we didn't.
     
  29. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nightmare scenario in NZ terrain.

    Could make it work with sterile & tagged wolves.
     
  30. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    surely the introduced possums would be up to the task by now?
     
  31. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Can't we train the drop bears:emoji_koala: to attack and kill the Deer?. That way they would not be inclined to drop from the trees and attack clueless tourists from East Asia. :eek:
     
  32. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Im more partial to Pinnibar but agree with Bogong that it's a bloody long way to from Melbourne etc... for a sub-alpiny peak

    I’ve done two one day ski trips on Mt P based at Mrs Ceres Hut to north abd a couple of summer visits via 4wd - when its much more ‘popular’. In fact my wife & I had Xmas lunch at the summit just before the storms of the Sydney/ Hobart race (Dec 99?). I digress.

    Theres some ok but shortish slope skiing to be had to the south of the summit and parts of the ridge that heads Sw (shady creek trk I think).

    It’s not as treeless as say Stirling so you gave to pick your spot. In the other hand it was great to have a mountain totally to ourselves, with the bonus of great views of the west side of Kosi. Only done 20-30 kms away. We had fresh Ozi Soft which made it all very nice.

    But yes pick your time, take a skilled friend or two. Preferably an Epirb (I dont!) and well charged Telstra network mobile. And take all your bush reco gear in 4wd. Saw would be handy too.

    Otherwise the High Plains & Kosi will make a good sub for Hotham/F’top with less 4wding & climbing.
     
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  33. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have plenty of the BHP and the Main range to ski now that I am part of the BC XC ski cult.
     
  34. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Applies from Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3.01pm to Fri 30 Nov 2018, 2.53pm. Last reviewed: Wed 21 Nov 2018, 11.25am.

    Closed areas: Aerial pest control program - Kosciuszko National Park
    Some areas of this park are closed due to an aerial pest control operation targeting deer and pigs. The program will occur between Monday 26 November and Friday 30 November 2018.

    The tracks and trails closed are:

    • Rennix walk
    • Rainbow Lake walk
    • Porcupine track
    • Waterfall walk
    The closed areas are:

    • Ramshead Range - Merrits Creek east to Sawpit Creek
    • Mount Guthrie east to Mount Paralyser
    • The area east of Guthega Link Road, eastwards to Diggers Creek
    • Big Boggy, The Cascades, Chimney Ridge, Charcoal Range
    • Suggan Buggan Range Pinch River
    • North-east of The Pilot to Ingegoodbee trail
    This operation is part of a 3-year plan to reduce impacts by deer and pigs on high conservation areas, including the montane bogs and fens threatened ecological community. Other feral animals such as dogs, foxes and goats will also be shot during this program. Aerial shooting is not used to control horses in NSW national parks, and therefore horses will not be targeted as part of this program.

    This closure may be extended due to any condition and an extension will be posted as soon as possible. Penalties apply for non-compliance. For more information, call 02 6450 5600 or visit the NSW National Parks safety page for park safety guidelines.

    Affects 3 locations in this park:
     
  35. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I hope they forget their glasses and hit a few horses.
     
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  36. Myazma

    Myazma One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Came thru the Bago SF which borders the NW side of KNP today, it's one big feral horse paddock. Was wondering what the NSW Forestry corp's position is on feral horse control.
     
  37. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Surely they could use some kind of top secret military drone for all this? Good for testing too, recognition software in the AI versions?
     
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  38. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Park does nothing about pigs and deer.
     
  39. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    what sort of deer?

    I have always lughed at a Thredbo tshirt I own with a picture of a reindeer on it LOL
     
  40. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    Avoid the mountains for the next few days.
     
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  41. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator

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    Sambar.
     
  42. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So the closure is the Park being rented out to the Shooters Party for a picnic?
     
  43. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim Blessed are the bignoses Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wouldn't surprise me if a few horses got shot by accident. Hard to tell from a helicopter.;)
     
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  44. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not so funny when one runs in front of your car! Bloody deer!
     
  45. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator

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    Throw in some medieval costumes and this thing may gain momentum.
     
  46. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Has nobody noticed the slight issue?

    There is a charity cycle ride from Canberra to Kosi on the same dates.

    Are parks insane?
     
  47. Myazma

    Myazma One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wearing Lycra and venture off the blacktop your fair game in my book.
     
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  48. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So who is going out there to take pictures of the carcasses and scream inhumane.
    Poor foxy loxy, , piggy wiggy and bambi all shot by nasty marksman in helicopter....
    The skills required by the marksman for a humane kill must be a magnitude of difference between a fox and magnificent horse....clearly you can"t kill a horse humanely from the air because those big eyes make you go all gooey.
     
  49. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    well that is
    a question that Team Bears have never quite resolved
    Occasionally there are flickers of intelligence detected.

    KNP certainly are slow movers when new ideas are concerned.
    They still have not progressed much from the “Bad days “of lock up the bush logic.

    Let the “tracks overgrow strategy” is still their major doctrine.
    But Team Bears are holding out hope that more science gets used in planning as time marches on!
    Vicco seems to set the standards....Parks Vic just get a bit confused and compromised from time to time.....but they are evolving !!
     
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  50. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Target rich environment.
     
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