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Horses In National Parks, A Discussion.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    McCormack is Deputy PM ...
     
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  2. xuěboarder

    xuěboarder One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is fun:

    Whole video is good but horses from 14.40ish
     
  3. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    That was brilliant. Thanks for sharing.
     
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  4. Newsteve

    Newsteve Hard Yards

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    I think that part of the problem is that a lot of people/voters confuse strong man/bully with strong leader/good leader..???
     
  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Admin, I appologise if this is out of line, I only posted originally, because you do have Brumby supporters in your group.
    *In responce to comment on my warning people of hackers / scammers in Brumby groups, you seem to have accidentally blocked my reply, so for you, & any others who seem to think Brumby supporters have it coming as we are gullible:
    *Alasdair Tutt you are a funny(not humourwise)little man! You sheeple will believe that your precious gov & parks NEVER LIE!
    I will start with number 1: sit on it!
    2: no non BRUMBY person has EVER had their devices hacked by your reckoning then. Yeah right, good luck with yourself
    3: so you sheeple honestly think the sun shines out the posterior or you gov & parks that NEVER LIE then, by your own admision, you must believe, what you have been told. Lies! To set the record straight, ALL HORSES are herbivores ( that means non meat eaters) if a Brumby accidentally swallowed a big enough bunch of insects with their grass, they would be violently ill. Which proves the "science for sale" professor donald driscoll (no capitals you notice, doesnt deserve them if his science is adjustable to the right price) & other "experts" right adult only emoji does not exist for them. You sheeple just assume that gov, parks, & the for sale science is feeding you is true, who is gullible? Professor Craig Downer is A REAL SCIENTIST, KNOWN WORLDWIDE WITH ADMIRATION, NOT RIDICULE, AS IS professor don driscol & other immoral science for sale "¿ experts ¿" (BTW, that was intentional) & WHO'S SCIENCE IS NOT ADJUSTABLE & FOR SALE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER, ALSO HAS PROOF, check out his credentials if you dont know who he is… honest & impressive. He can, not that it is needed by any other than sheeple, that the theory that our Brumbies, being such hiddeously evil creatures, have not evolved to become not only meat eaters, that hunt endangered frogs, & skinks, & even cannibals now as well, but any horses stomache would not be able to survive on a meat diet. Alasdair, you are many times more likely to eat other humans, tham any Brumby is to eat other horses. Also put out by the same "" expert your never lying gov & parks have paid to make up more unbelievable (to us that have full capacities) the chasing of cattle till they drop dead from exhaustion theory, seeing as cattle are not allowed to be in the parks anyway, wonder where he observed this on numerous occaisions? Oh, the same chasing habit referes to Kangaroos, he said that is why you will not see them anywhere in the vacinity of "feral horses" jeez, there must be a lot of realistic cardboard cut outs, or photoshopping going on then. There are so many photos such as the attached that prove driscoll will say what he is paid to say
    4: All horses have a single unshod (horse shoes, so that you can understand) hoof, not pig like cloven footprints that you precious gou & parks like to show in detailed photos claiming horse damage. We are still on the hoof here, two more points to take not of. An expert was in an area of ground that Brumbies do not frequent, as the ground is too soft, they prefere the area on the other side of the bend in the river. To "prove" this untrue, they took a photo that must have been to make it look more official by adding a Bic pen to the photo, of a single (not 4) very clear horse shoe indentation in the ground, which, only being the one, shows a person riding a domestic horse could not have been through there either. Horses are not born with a metal shoe, nailed into each hoof surely the honest person taking the photo, didnt belt the horse shoe print into the ground themself for the photo? Naa, that would be immoral.
    Also speaking of hard hooves, (the plural of 1 hoof) Australia WAS designed to have hard hoofed animals. Our original Megafauna included a variety of giant Kangaroos, one of these, had a single, though pointed hard hoof on each side. Once again, it was humans that wiped them out.
    5: The bloke (darwin)& team of 2 others that the missleading gov paid a wad of cash to give a false count, went accross the most populated part of the park, 600 metres high in a chopper, team of 3 counted the Brumbies running below them, added another 25% to get what they assumed they missed, with their binoculars at that rediculously low level, calculated the area they traveled, coming up with a number that would have been the number if the entire park had the same population. As if that was not enough, at the end, they multiplied that by 25, INCASE some were hiding behind trees - notice that part wasnt in their first count? Only the all up count.
    6: No horse on the entire planet has the capacity to damage, & effect the way the tree canopy grows.
    7: there is more, agenda wise, so much more, but I have a life, that doesnt include what you do, so will end here. YOU! You & your fellow sheeple are the ones, you are wrongly ridiculing us for. I GUESS NO FERAL HORSE SWALLOWER IS EVER GOING TO GET HACKED, NEVER GOING TO FALL FOR OR HAVE SOMEONE ATTEMPT TO SCAM THEM. I am dome wasting my time & breath on a person who, instead of recognising a warning, just resorts to grade one level intelect, sit on it
    BTW, I, being a descent person, regarless of your attitude, still hope you never fall victim
     
  6. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I can tell you didn't write that
     
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  7. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    I can tell everyone struggled to read it.

    Our education system has clearly failed that poor person.
     
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  8. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    The education system can only do so much to help people when they're three cans short of a six pack. And there seems to be an awfully large proportion of those kinds of folks who are in support of the protection of feral horses, based on my observations.
     
  9. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm seeing a correlation between the Brumby loving Karens and the #istandwithdan Karens.
     
  10. Newsteve

    Newsteve Hard Yards

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    I was tempted to respond to the points made by dawooduck but quickly realised it would be a waste if time. He is beyond saving. so sorry!
     
  11. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So what do we have here @dawooduck ?
     
  12. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  13. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    What we have here is a wonderful example of pro brumby love posted on the Victorian Rural Resilience FB page.

    The struggle is real but she does make a new and most enthralling point about too many insects in the grass being a danger to Brumbies due to the danger of over ingestion of carnivorous matter.

    On that note, I am off to hunt grasshopper or perhaps just yell at the sunset
     
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  14. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    I sympathise with a descent person.
    They always seem so down......
     
  15. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So the biological control for horses is lots of insects in the grass? That could be made to work with even maybe native grasshoppers. There certainly are normally plenty of them about as Spring comes on.
     
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  16. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    A brumby seems to have had its way with @dawooduck
     
  17. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    A couple more rums and she may have made more sense.
     
  18. teletripper

    teletripper One of Us

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    Not wanting to re-invigorate the whole 'cannibal brumby' debate, as it really adds nothing to whether horses should/should not be allowed to roam free in large numbers across our conservation reserve systems. I do however find it interesting that many brumby activists just can not stomach that a horse may occasionally, and have been known under different circumstances to stray from a strict herbivore diet.
    Dawooduck, you might want to respond with some of this material 'to put a horse amongst the chickens' as they say.:

    https://thehorse.com/151467/follow-up-carnivorous-horses/



     
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  19. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've never met a horse which refused a sausage roll.
     
  20. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cannibals
     
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  21. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I actually feel dumber for having tried to read and understand that word salad.
     
  22. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I did not know many had meat in them anyway. I have a horse whose previous owner used to feed butter chicken to him. I shake my head though. The horses were eating the fibrous material in the digestive tract of the dead horses so it appeared at first glance as being cannibalistic.
     
  23. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    It would appear that some mad person is now posting some fairly horrible fake FB posts purporting to be from Jo McMillan.

    The pro brumby groups appear to have gone .... feral
     
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  24. neilmny

    neilmny One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Is cane toads the answer? :whistle: Teach the brumbies to eat cane toads. :out:
     
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  25. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think I see a flaw in your plan.
     
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  26. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    We have a local horse nutter called Carol.
    Same demographic disgruntled generally uneducated , poor and unhinged.
     
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  27. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Carol rides with a friend of mine who is on our side. We have been asked not to stir the pot when around Carol. Her other fight is with MTB riders. That is also interesting.
     
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  28. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    And when a Deputy leader of a government needs to take 4 weeks leave to deal with the stress of it all then you would have question his fitness for the role. Perhaps it is a 4 week break for him to do that himself. Politics is a tough game and tougher still when in a leadership role within the government but this should be considered before taking the job.
     
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  29. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    His father recently passed away, so maybe he is reassessing things. Also he is on the record of saying this is his last term.
     
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  30. Chookfooter

    Chookfooter One of Us

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    He messed up big time and now wants to run away and hide. All self inflicted, I have no pity for him. The sooner he is gone the better.
     
  31. Chaeron

    Chaeron Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Nats are a vulnerable species and progress generally endangers them.
    Should they receive protection so that development doesn’t see them wiped out?
    Look what’s happened to them in Qld after amalgamation....
    Or should we eliminate them from parliament all together?
    What do we have left without the likes of Barnaby and Barilaro?
    Katter, Hanson and co. will keep the nutjob flag flying.

    You can’t rely on independents to properly represent country Australia- just look at what that McGowan woman did in Indi! Shocking!
     
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  32. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Imagine the mud slinging that Giovanni would be doing if it were Kean who took a month off in the face of a debacle like this. Hopefully this is the end of that grub.
     
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  33. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The koala blow up was all Barilaro, I have no idea what he was thinking.
     
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  34. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you don't think you are not capable of knowing what you are thinking............
     
  35. Chaeron

    Chaeron Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak Ski Pass: Gold

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    Protect horses, but not koalas, because koalas vote for the other side...
     
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  36. Newsteve

    Newsteve Hard Yards

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    Yes, everyone knows that Koalas are green... and Developers vote for who??
     
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  37. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    the Nats are the dominant faction in the Qld entity
     
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  38. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m no fan of Barilaro at all, but that’s a bit rough. Politicians in all parties have had their mental health issues and some have come back to do the job just fine.

    In an era when we are seeking to de-stigmatise mental health I would respectfully say this sort of commentary isn’t helpful. Sure he’s a politician, but he’s a person.
     
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  39. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe Gladys took his big novelty cheque book off him

    Barilaro has been shooting from the hip his whole term. At a wild and speculative guess Taylor has been pulling his strings and writing his scripts. He is done, gone to the Barnaby bench of self determined political failure.
     
  40. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I can take your point regarding mental health but I think it was more the media who coined it so as far as Bari is concerned. I only mentioned stress which is a part of the job. Things were getting quite hot for him and this is a retreat which I suspect serves another agenda. If someone plays a mental health card, which in this case is more about not dealing with the stress of the circumstances he created, does that not also reflect badly in a similar way as you suggest? My comments refer more to Bari running away from the debate and the pressure continues on him from many quarters even while he is on leave. I still question his fitness for leadership.
     
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  41. Nicko4334

    Nicko4334 Addicted

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    Agreed. This fiasco smacks of 'dodge the media leave'. Only the meeja has mentioned the mental health thing, and they would mention anything, anytime, so hardly reliable.

    His associates have bundled him into the cupboard until the boss calms down and the meeja moves on to the next Meghan/Harry piece.

    A slow moving political train wreck.
     
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  42. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    There is word that Friendly Jordies (Bruz video above) has a fairly damning bit of information he is going to release on Friday. After FJ announced this in his last video Giovanni immediately took personal leave and 3 Nats defected to the Libs. I hope its something good.

    And on the topic of "mental health leave" there is no way that anyone needs to declare what type of illness you have when taking personal leave. If he had a broken leg would it be "broken leg leave"? It stinks of deflection. Now we have the likes of Cochran acting like an advocate for mental health all of a sudden on FB. His bullshit is beyond transparent and ****ing disgraceful.

    Anyone who has truly suffered from mental health would have enough respect for the seriousness of the issue to not use it as a political ploy.
     
  43. SAsurfa

    SAsurfa One of Us

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    Agree, the crooked unit he is, such a cop out after all the corrupt going ons he's been involved with. Can't even stand up to the consequences of his own doings.
     
  44. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Animal (in)Justice Party are now spruiking that contraceptive control is going to be trialled in KNP. Seems an agreement has been made with the minister. Who f votes for these f ing idiots? Another delaying tactic that will perpetuate the ongoing damage to the park. But all animal lives are important, inbred ferals that are in no danger of going extinct.

    Apparently the darting is going to be done by aerial shooting. So now there will be sharps left all over the park.

    You know what works as a contraceptive? A 7.62mm round applied at over 2000fps. Only needs to be administered once (maybe twice)
     
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  45. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    When a helicopter gunship becomes a humane medical birth control delivery vehicle ....

    So much bullshit horse shit
     
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  46. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Would need to get closer to dart, so more panic of the feral and thus less humane.7.62 mm works for deer and pigs also works for horses in the NT, WA and on Commonwealth land but apparently not in KNP...
     
  47. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    If trapping is the only method used to remove horses then fertility control (if it can be affected) is still better than population growth. I think the estimates are a growth are 23% pa. Trials are often conducted just to shut the buggers up. You have to go through all proposed methods to show those which are not effective but a trial can be conducted while trapping continues. I think it is hilarious that someone like Emma Hurst aligns herself with Rural Resistance. Talk about getting into bed with the enemy.
     
  48. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Expensive and time consuming, meanwhile Rome burns.
     
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  49. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I think the realisation is shooting horses is always going to be a hard sell so there will be more roadblocks which will delay any measure of control which is also expensive and as we have already seen, stops the actual removal of horses.
     
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  50. teletripper

    teletripper One of Us

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    The comments from Ms Hurst about darting from helicopter just show how poorly informed she is on these issues both in regard to the techniques themselves and the Australian Alps on-ground situation. It has been shown that darting using the standard pnuematic darting rifles is extremely challenging to be able to deliver from the air with any level of success as you have to be within at least 50m and more ideally at 30m from the animal for the dart to be effective, even on the ground in low wind situations. As the standard pneumatic firearm used for ground delivery situations it is relatively low velocity by necessity for the dart cartridge to stay intact and for the dart to not cause undue trauma to the animal, the flight of the dart and therefore its accuracy is affected by the rotorwash of the helicopter, therefore rarely used for such work. This Australian research study on sedating horses by dart delivery from helicopter shows it can be done in certain landscapes and situations using a charge powered dart, but again whilst possible, still very difficult.
    https://www.researchgate.net/public...horses/link/5b3402704585150d23dbdcd0/download

    This study was done in the Pilbara North Western Australia on 12 feral horses used a charge powered dart riffle using .22 blanks and still only had roughly 55% accuracy therefore requiring multiple attempts and shots. This was used to achieve sedating of horses not delivering immuno-contraceptive. Also note the chase and incident times and distances to achieve this. The Australian Alps landscape, terrain and vegetation cover situation is a little bit different to the Pilbara savannah and woodlands. Alps horses would be off the frost hollows and plains and in amongst the trees before you knew it and the fine placement of a relatively low velocity dart shot required in amongst timber beyond even the best FAAST shooter. The same animal welfare risks of injury during pursuit apply as to whether you are pursuing for non lethal darting or for lethal control. The differences being that if the animal being pursued for lethal control is injured, it is dispatched quickly regardless, and the firearm being used for lethal control is high powered, high velocity SLR using a deliberate policy of ‘overkill’ whereby numerous rounds are used per animal instead of a single shot, and has been proven to be successful and acceptable from an animal welfare quick dispatch perspective for pigs, deer, goats etc in the Australian Alps terrain.

    There has been some success in pnuematic rifle ground delivery of immuno-contraceptive in the US via stalking and habituating of horses to the shooter presence and approach. However they are now also encountering the problems that horses are becoming shooter approach shy and can not be approached the multiple times required over successive years for successful delivery of contraceptives. It also must be stressed that these referenced 'success stories' in the US for contraceptive control are generally very small populations (<100's) and are in approachable and constrained terrain situations. Many horses within the Alps can not be approached anywhere near those ranges (<50m) regardless, without taking flight.

    I will not even get into the politics, social and differing stakeholder group acceptance or otherwise of the use and application of fertility control from animal rights and pro horse activists. You could write a book about that issue alone.