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Horses In National Parks, A Discussion.

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Greybeard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  2. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am not sure it is next level nonsense. Think for a moment that NPWS is currently hamstrung with regard to any management options. The last sentence may be the clue to the intention of the sign. "If a horse directly injures, threatens people or causes damage" tell them. Document it. I think it is cunning and would be difficult to argue against taking action if people are getting hurt but anecdotal evidence is not sufficient.
     
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  3. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I understand what you are saying and agree.

    I mostly meant its ridiculous we have gotten to this point. The fact that there as so many horses now people have to be warned.
     
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  4. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Prior to the current management plan for horses on BHP, Parks would cull any horse which showed aggression toward people. Consequently most of the horses up there are pretty quiet around people, except for a few mares which have formed up with the little black stallion near Nelse. They are marked for removal anyway, regardless of the result of the Federal Court hearing.

    I think the sign also promotes an awareness of the danger, maybe even instills some fear, which then translates to more support to get rid of them. I don't even understand those who ride their own horses among the ferals and want to save them. I know someone who has lost two mares on the High Plains to ferals. Geldings can also be singled out by stallions.

    I think public attitudes will change and perhaps the new environment minister will do something positive but for now it is more counting and committees.
     
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  5. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  6. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The NT shoot buffalo from helicopter, likewise feral horses etc.
     
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  7. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  8. Greysrigging

    Greysrigging One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Feral donkeys are a huge problem out along the Victoria Highway in the Territory. Bad traffic hazard too, in fact I skull dragged one off a bend in the highway that had been cleaned up by a truck only the other day....
    Gregory National Park has an aerial culling program ( helicopters ) on atm. Donkeys, pigs and horses.
     
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  9. Chaeron

    Chaeron Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak Ski Pass: Gold

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    Need to send Barillaro up there!
     
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  10. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  11. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Stupid man will claim heritage status
     
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  12. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I just heard on the ABC news that there is now an estimated 25,000 feral horses in the Park. Wtf.
     
  13. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The inevitable outcome of the rejection of the last management plan. No doubt the pro brumby groups will dispute "the count".
     
  14. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    the figures are frightening, and this is only one station.

    "Wiluna pastoralist Tim Carmody has shot more than 2,500 camels since the start of this year and more than 7,000 camels and horses since his family took over Prenti Downs Station four years ago."
     
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  15. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's an industrial quantity of bullets.
     
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  16. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    or small conflict qty.

    Scary thing is the figures, they shot on average about 7.5 camels per day for that year. wow
     
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  17. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  18. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Old n' Crusty Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  19. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cherry picked from the above link.

    Combining estimates for each of the three blocks surveyed, the population across the surveyed Australian Alps area increased from an estimated 9,190 in 2014 to 25,318 in 2019. This is an increase of 23% per annum.

    Those sorts of numbers make pretty much any re-homing or similar pretty much a waste of time, especially when you add the recent plans to re-home retired or dud racehorses.

    There pretty much is now only one answer or lose the high country to erosion, weed invasion and species extinction.
     
  20. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Try telling that to Porkbarilaro.
     
  21. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe he has a friend of a mate's wife's cousin who has shares in a bullet factory?
     
  22. Myazma

    Myazma One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can't help but think the pro feral horse mob are fully responsible the the ever increasing numbers of horses that will meet a tragic end.Could have been 9000 but now 25000, by the time action on the necessary scale takes place x0000. Dicks.
     
  23. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not to mention the eventual cost of control escalating at some ridiculous rate
     
  24. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The prof brumby groups are quiet at the moment but the faint murmuring of "we don't believe the count" are being heard.

    The Barilaro\Cochrane "heritage brumby committee" should now be put right in the spotlight.
     
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  25. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Which was their previous position.
     
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  26. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Old n' Crusty Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    There's rampant comments of "We don't believe that count" on FB this morning across KHA & Aus Alps pages.
    FK's why people have an 'opinion' on this topic - the facts are black and white, just as it was in 2014.

    If there was any truth to their bias they'd formulate and publish their own count and methodology.
    It's a moot argument.
     
  27. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Opinion is more important than fact, my opinion doubly so.
     
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  28. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Old n' Crusty Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Give me strength.
     
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  29. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Old n' Crusty Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just look at those North Kosci comparative numbers... Staggering:
     
  30. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Their arguments have been insane on those FB pages. They honestly believe that the feral horses are going to stop fires in the park because of all the grazing they do which they think decreases fuel load. Insane. Imagine using the current fires in NSW to bolster your argument for keeping those horses in the park. Lunacy.

    Never mind the millions of dead snowgums and mountain ash all over the place that are ready to go up at any minute or the complete lack of water because the soil has been packed so hard it won’t take a drop in.

    I spent a huge amount of time on the Northern Frost plains this winter, more so than anywhere else in the park, and the concentration of feral horses was more than I have witnessed in all the years I’ve been out exploring the park.

    Sadly, a fire might be the only way their numbers will be reduced in the foreseeable future...
     
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  31. ecowain

    ecowain One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Saw your name in a lot of log books.
     
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  32. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Haha. I believe I had some back to back entries this winter...

    Congrats on the walk btw. Looked like a lot of fun.
     
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  33. ecowain

    ecowain One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It was. Shame that we had to call it at Thredbo, we were on a roll.

    Back on topic, we had a horse trip over our guy lines at bill Jones hut. A little unnerving.
     
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  34. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is there anything we can do to help change legislation? Who do we lobby?
     
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  35. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I had a very sleepless night in my tent at Bill Jones in Feb this year. They are very territorial there. Whinnying and stamping all night. That creek next to the hut used to run quite nicely about 5 years ago as well. Now it’s just a mud slick.
     
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  36. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    You could send an email to Matt Kean , the NSW Environment Minister. I've sent him emails on a couple of issues and he does respond. It probably helps that I'm in his electorate though. It appears that he has disagreements with Barilaro which could only be a good thing. He has also referred to the horse population in the park as feral not wild. The more people that lobby him the better.
     
  37. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just sent him a message. Easy to do on his website if anyone else feels the same.
     
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  38. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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  39. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Fixed
     
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  40. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    You'd think we'd have learnt from the rabbit and <insert other feral pest species of choice> debacle, but no, let's allow all these 'new' ones build up to a level that will make them virtually impossible to manage.
     
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  41. POW_hungry

    POW_hungry Old n' Crusty Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Serious question though; are we all preaching to converted here? I assume we’ve got a broad spectrum of demographics and geographical background, yet we all agree on the conservation of KNP and the reduction of horse/pest numbers in the park...

    Where are all the pro-horse lobbyists in here?!
     
  42. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its just nature at work. In the same way that all humans will end up with black hair, kangaroos will eventually have manes.
     
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  43. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    There was a fairly vociferous pro horse person (Deejay?) who thought they would get support here a couple of years back. Came out with all the usual "war horse", "ANZAC", "Man from Snowy River" tropes. Got shouted down pretty quickly.
     
  44. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Like those Facebook groups we have created an echo chamber here which discourages comments from those with different views.

    I’d love to hear some rational reasons as to why the horses should stay if anyone has them?
     
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  45. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    There aren't any. If looked at in the cold light of being an introduced species (like any other feral) there is no reason for wild horses anywhere in Australia.
     
  46. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have a large number of friends that are "pro-brumbies" .
    Its akin to telling yanks to give up their firearms.
     
  47. zapruda

    zapruda One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bingo!
     
  48. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    And so the environmental massacres continue....
     
  49. TheFake

    TheFake One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Give it time. I'm sure Joe, Taipan et al will find this thread sooner or later.
     
  50. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep, and oddly enough there is a reason we have a creek called Soil Conservation Creek and an associated hut, now gone. And that was to address soil erosion from coven hoofed animals.
     
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