1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Hotham Closing for 6 weeks

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by saveme, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    18,717
    Likes Received:
    13,294
    Location:
    Sydney
    Surely they could run just one or two lifts to service the guests who can still come? What am I missing here?
     
    rowdyflat, art and NeoSamurai like this.
  2. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    37,956
    Likes Received:
    26,681
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    risk/reward just didn't stack up for them.

    the resort mgt boards are gov agencies that exist to enable and encourage people to use the resorts. they are supposed to break even. I heard a rumour that may be getting extra gov support this year, but can't confirm. the risk/reward equation is quite different

    I suspect (certainly don't know) that they may also have contracts that could be difficult to break. So may as well get some value out of them
     
    Chaeron and nezumi like this.
  3. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    80,708
    Likes Received:
    54,949
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    From a friend who has a business that’s affected by this:

     
    GS, scottski, rowdyflat and 9 others like this.
  4. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    47,330
    Likes Received:
    18,861
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    Agree with that - that's the initial disappointment. But then you have to move on and look at it like the woman from Hoys in the afr article. Shit happens. Deal with it. Crying into your beer doesn't solve the problem. I've scarcely had a year in the 15 I've been here when shit hasn't happened. I think you have to be very resilient in this game. Mentally tough. If not, you're not going to survive.
     
  5. PG2736

    PG2736 Addicted

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    121
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The bigger issue is the complete incompetence of the vic state government. The frustration is that this could of been prevented...and as a result through no fault of our own we are being massively impacted.
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis likes this.
  6. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,213
    Likes Received:
    18,756
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    And you look at it from the perspective that businesses in Melbourne are under similar strain.

    Not that they had to contend with the fires, etc.
     
  7. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    13,934
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    This.
    My parents were involved in the ski industry at Hotham for ten years before they realised that the only way to make a small fortune in the ski industry was start with a larger fortune, which they didn't have - and so the entire thing was a misguided fiasco from the start.
    And if you can't make a buck, you do what my parents (and Vail) did and pull the plug.
    It was very surprising (for me) and ambitious to even contemplate getting the lifts spinning this year, so good on them for at least trying. I'd be extremely surprised, astonished, if the other three remaining operating resorts make it through the season without following suit.
    This virus is just a bugger, and whilst it was nice to believe for a bit that we had it beat, we are still in the very earliest stages of a pandemic which isn't going away any time soon.
    Hopefully there'll be some fun and interesting BC adventures ASAP.
     
  8. Gordo

    Gordo Early Days

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2020
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    57
    I'll be there in a bit over a week supporting every business i can.
     
    CarveMan likes this.
  9. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    5,670
    Likes Received:
    13,934
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    Whilst it's comforting to blame governments, the only way of stopping this virus is to maintain proper SD etc etc.
    I didn't see any of that happening last week up at Hotham, a few cursory steps is all, and when I got back to Melbourne on Wednesday night before lockdown, it was like one giant party in the streets as everyone headed out for one last hurrah. I bet you a slab (can even see it on the snow cams!) that there's no real meaningful effort to retard the virus up at the resorts, so its only a matter of time. If you really want to stop transmission, you need to do things properly - as if your life depended on it like we do in clinical settings every day.
    If you want to blame anything, blame the human condition.
     
    GS, Skiain, Chux-sw and 15 others like this.
  10. Hully

    Hully One of Us

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,705
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Don't need to read between the lines, it smacks you right between the eyes.
     
  11. Hully

    Hully One of Us

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    1,705
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Look at industry social media feeds, they are full of old and new images where people aren't social distancing. Though, Thredbo and Perisher have just started in the last couple of days putting out stuff which is innovative, clearly messaged and not just a token listing of standard guidelines.
     
    Chaeron, currawong and Jonathan_P like this.
  12. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2004
    Messages:
    47,330
    Likes Received:
    18,861
    Location:
    Narbethong, Vic
    But that's something you can't change. It is what it is. Deal with it. Move on.
     
  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Yes I hope so too but I am mentally preparing myself for no more skiing of any sort in 2020.
    :-0
    Even bush walking and surfing will be tricky to accomplish between now and Sept. . City Living is dodgy!!
     
    #63 Mister Tee on XC Skis, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Sound advice.Not fun but true.
     
  15. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    42,820
    Likes Received:
    22,491
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    I really hope you’ve read @Boodwah post.

    Your post shows little understanding of the issue.
     
    #65 Seth, Jul 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
    Skiain and nezumi like this.
  16. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    37,956
    Likes Received:
    26,681
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Chaeron and nezumi like this.
  17. Yardsale

    Yardsale Part of the Furniture Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Messages:
    12,594
    Likes Received:
    275
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Lol, I got a little email last night that indicated they have dug a massive hole. Honestly. poor buggers, I feel for them. A website that was not set up properly (probably because the northern hemisphere staff got let go), changing government regulations and a virus that, like any virus goes "winter, lets paaaaarty!". Oh, and also getting decisions made for you on the other side of the planet - that kind of sucks. You can tell that is happening as the businesses and clubs around the hill are no longer being consulted or given time to prepare a response.
     
    currawong likes this.
  18. NeoSamurai

    NeoSamurai One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    2,203
    Location:
    If I retrace my steps I can probably find it.
    The KosciuszkoExpress Quad (Australia's longest lift) runs all year doesn't it? Always I observe with very few customers on the seats outside ski season.
     
    Annabuzzy likes this.
  19. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    18,963
    Likes Received:
    12,839
    Location:
    melbourne
    i remain surprised there ever has been a ski season with a sort-of economy on the hottest, driest, flattest inhabited continent......how ever anyone can run a business in 8-12 weeks a year blows my tiny mind.....anyway when my FIL - maybe like others here - and other families started and built lodges etc it was all on elbow grease and effort, trust, no internal walls, a gas choofer stove, and no expectation of skiing groomers day in day out, and snow cover year in year out. even in my 20 short years of involvement in hotham ive seen these expectations change incredibly. The abuse i see hurled on the hotham facebook site by entitled fwts.....when it became about money, it became about money, and so here we are.
     
    Sago, Chaeron, Zeroz and 6 others like this.
  20. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    42,820
    Likes Received:
    22,491
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    Our conditions really do warrant a club field (NZ) style arrangement rather than a Vail bells and whistles set up.
     
    rowdyflat, Zeroz, cornice11 and 3 others like this.
  21. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    80,708
    Likes Received:
    54,949
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Despite all this it’s an industry which turns over a billion-ish dollars.
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis, mr and Chux-sw like this.
  22. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,792
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Location:
    More woke than thou.
    That's easy to say, but the small resorts and club fields in Australia don't tend to do very well. I'm fairly confident that most people in these forums only know about the five big resorts, perhaps a small resort in their own state and few could mention any Australian club fields, past or present (hint, there's one not far from Hotham).

    People in this country want big resorts, so that's what the market provides. If people wanted club fields then Cabramurra wouldn't have closed down and Rodway, Australia's steepest ski lift, wouldn't have so few riders.
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis likes this.
  23. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,213
    Likes Received:
    18,756
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    People like the idea of a "resort", more than just a "ski field".
     
    nezumi likes this.
  24. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    18,963
    Likes Received:
    12,839
    Location:
    melbourne
    yeah so i looked back at the bank account and yeah i now have 2 epic passes for perisher, and i live in vic. ah well....
     
  25. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    18,963
    Likes Received:
    12,839
    Location:
    melbourne
    today, yes i think they do, but that has been cultivated over time. i think buller was first, perhaps?
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  26. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2000
    Messages:
    42,820
    Likes Received:
    22,491
    Location:
    The Higher Ground
    People come to expect what is in front of them.

    Had things been ‘developed’ differently in the past it could be a completely changed model for Australian skiing.
     
  27. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    Why they (RMB) even have a marketing budget and take on this role of promotion is a little perplexing...
     
    nezumi likes this.
  28. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,792
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Location:
    More woke than thou.
    The first 40 years of Buller are a case of demand always heavily exceeding supply. So it just kept on expanding as fast as conditions allowed.

    Briefly, the Buller Chalet was built in 1929. If you know anything about economic history you'd think that was bad timing as the Great Depression started that year. But no, the place was always over booked. So they extended it circa 1932 when no one was spending on holidays, but it was still booked out for the whole ski season, so it was extended twice more in subsequent years until it had 80 or 90 beds when it burnt down in c.1942. After the war finished in 1945, with only one legal ski hut, a squatter village developed, so they permitted 3 or 4 lodges to built around 1947. They were instantly full. So in 1949 they did a subdivision for another 21 lodges. All those were taken on the day applications opened and many groups didn't get their building site. So a few years later more lots were made available... and so on.

    No matter what else happened, no matter how many other resorts and club fields were permitted, Buller would always have grown into a fully fledged ski resort by the early 1950s.

    Hotham's more sedate development is due to many reasons that didn't affect Buller such as extra distance from Melbourne, the road not being cleared until c.1958 and the fact that the lift company was under capitalised, so they couldn't build much until 1969 when it was sold to a more cashed up owner.
     
    #78 Bogong, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
    Chaeron, currawong and Skiain like this.
  29. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Location:
    Melbourne
    "Son when I first built this chalet people said I was mad to build it in swamp. So It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one and that sank into the swamp. So I built a third one and that burnt down , keeled over and then sank into the swamp but this one stayed up and this is one you are getting...."
     
  30. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    37,956
    Likes Received:
    26,681
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    Because it's part of their role mandated by government?
     
    Chaeron, djam and Bogong like this.
  31. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes Received:
    3,385
    Location:
    Canberra, ACT
    Umm, Thredbo is actually pretty busy year round and Easter can be as big as winter. Kosi Express is used for MTB and hiking in the green season and I've seen queues longer than during the ski season.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  32. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    Lessees shouldn't be paying for that, sick of RMB blowing the marketing budget and whacking us. It's akin to xyz council running a marketing campaign "come live in our municipality" and slugging the (existing) ratepayers for the blown marketing budget.

    One may rebut by saying it's no different from promoting the great ocean road - difference is that cost is smeared across the whole state's taxpayers, rather than being recovered from a relatively small pool.
     
  33. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans not woke enough Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,213
    Likes Received:
    18,756
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    Well arguably local tourism in the regions is primarily funded by the LGAs and business organisations, in addition to some from the state govt.

    The burden of local marketing campaigns will always primarily rest with the local taxpayer. After all, the community gets the economic benefits of tourism.
     
  34. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    12,792
    Likes Received:
    4,424
    Location:
    More woke than thou.
    Yeah, the RMBs are effectively the local councils for tourist towns. In a tourist town almost everyone benefits from promoting tourism, so of course the RMBs should spend a bit on marketing to ensure that the tourists that everyone relies on keep on coming.
     
  35. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    I wonder what the breakdown is for tourism funding - business vs LGA vs state? A contrast to city LGAs, whose role is largely thought of as cleaning the streets and collecting the bins..

    Highly political maybe, but perhaps a more equitable approach is give Falls & Hotham back to the Alpine shire, meaning a larger pool of residents to smear the marketing budget across and promote the region as a whole...
     
  36. snowgum

    snowgum A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    5,006
    Likes Received:
    3,027
    Location:
    vic
    Not a bad idea for funding Falls and Hotham services,

    I suspect as per most aspects of life, the good citizens of Alpine Shire enjoy the benefits of proximity to both resorts but don’t wish to fund them - at least no further than the costs of visiting.

    The obvious negative with this model is the lack of green season income.

    The risk to integrating with the Shire is potentially being run into the ground over summer if no’s. Didn’t take off. It’s not inconceivable winter services could be reduced too if the Shire scoped out profits to lift their valley economy?
     
    Bogong likes this.
  37. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,550
    Likes Received:
    4,852
    Location:
    Yackandandah NE Victoria
    There is a limit to how effective marketing can be when there are fires and weather too hot for mtbiking , Corona, poor snow .
    Uncertainty about lifts and clusterfark ski ticket booking didnt help .
    Besides Bright is a madhouse over Xmas New year anyway , locals usually would avoid it.
     
  38. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    Flip side is those in the Alp shire benefit hugely from tourism in winter (all those skiers stopping for wines, food, equip, hire, fuel etc) - arguably some portion of that is due to marketing that their LGA isn't paying for...
     
    djam, snowgum and rowdyflat like this.
  39. snowgum

    snowgum A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    5,006
    Likes Received:
    3,027
    Location:
    vic

    They (Shire) sure do. I bet it’s a huge advantage being gatekeeper / tollkeeper and marketing a range of adventures ‘one‘ doesn’t have to pay for!

    Compare this with Bass Coast, Surf Coast or Colac-Otway Shires where many services and facilities Along the popular beaches are hinterland are actually funded by the council with some State funding (I believe).

    Im no economist but I think the model is externalise costs/ internalise profits.

    Just look at the Uber & Air BnB model...?
     
    Chaeron and rowdyflat like this.
  40. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    Naturally - if you can get benefit that you don't have to pay for...

    I'm not sure you can compare public-finance (i.e. LGAs) with the modern slavery that is uber/air bnb...
     
    snowgum likes this.
  41. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    37,956
    Likes Received:
    26,681
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    IIRC dinner plain rates are quarantined so that they don't just get syphoned off to fund stuff elsewhere in the shire. i suspect that if the alpine resorts were ever put under LGA mgt, something similar would happen. I doubt that there would be much saving for leaseholders.

    meanwhile, the alpine resorts are supposed to find some efficiencies in working together. hard to see too much scope.
     
    Chaeron and Hermannator like this.
  42. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,183
    Likes Received:
    1,542
    Location:
    Melburn
    There is certainly a perception that RMBs are wasteful and inefficient - a perception that isn't going away anytime soon, especially for hard-hit businesses that can't escape the service charge (dwarfs the site rental by a long way).
     
    Chaeron, nezumi and rowdyflat like this.
  43. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    37,956
    Likes Received:
    26,681
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    I didn't say they couldn't be more efficient, i just doubt that sharing/cooperation with other RMBs will help. Eg Adjoining LGAs can share plant but it's not very practical for resorts
     
    Bogong likes this.
  44. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    9,762
    Likes Received:
    7,813
    Lots of negative at vail - they would have been massively criticised for being open and encouraging people to travel
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis and Bogong like this.
  45. snowgum

    snowgum A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 4, 1999
    Messages:
    5,006
    Likes Received:
    3,027
    Location:
    vic
    Using the NZ (ie Qwtn and Wanaka), Alpine Shire could be proactive with scheduling shuttles from MT Beauty and Bright to the resorts. I guess Hoys and Pyles have the monopoly on these routes?

    But some council-funded Shuttles could increase bus frequency and help get traffic of the road - a plus in a normal year, esp. mid winter on Hotham when the road is treacherous.

    In The Green season Alpine Shire get find the odd Mtn access bus for Razorback Walkers and Road cyclists. Just a thought.
     
  46. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    38,541
    Likes Received:
    21,370
    Location:
    On a wave or mountain face near you.
    Encouraging who to travel? People need to start doing the right thing, this kinda BS is reason there is no ski season for many people and why we can’t get back to some kinda normal.
     
    cqen2l likes this.
  47. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,277
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Location:
    Melbourne
    We Mexicans don't have enough snow this season. Last Season in 2019 in August you could XC BC ski anywhere on the Baw Baw Plateaux and the BHP. The cover was over 1 metre deep .The Plague just makes things worse :-0
     
  48. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    9,762
    Likes Received:
    7,813

    Encouraging L those that have been forced to stay home, which population wise is probably half the state
     
  49. MHzMe

    MHzMe Addicted

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    Marouka Lodge
    And done for the season :cry: via email just now.

     
  50. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    13,638
    Likes Received:
    15,035
    Location:
    Sydney/Jindy
    Sad but expected :-(

    I'm sorry Victoria.