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Hotham / DP brickbats and bouquets

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by Ziggy, Aug 13, 2015.

  1. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Hear Hear.

    This 'vehicle' (traction test vehicle or similar decal on an Amarok, old hilux, maybe some others) has been circulating for at least 3 seasons now. What has it achieved?

    FWIW, go Omeo - it might actually be cheaper. Fuel price @ Glenrowan servos 157c/l ULP. Fuel Price @ Bairnsdale Mobil 137c/l ULP over the weekend
     
  2. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    These 'Traction Test Vehicles' are part of the VicRoads Great Alpine Road snow chain fitting protocol and used at MTH to evaluate road conditions to determine when snow chains are required to be fitted, (No chain fitting, 2WD fitting or to all vehicles fitting)
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Traction detection vehicles are also an integral part of winter airport operation in the US. I have waited for hours and hours and hours at Denver airport (don't eat the pizza) while they have run traction detection vehicles up and down the runway at Jackson. It is a well tested bit of kit.
     
  4. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    So what are the tests and thresholds for those tests I wonder?
     
  5. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    Judging by the crap quality of some of the 'research' produced from these activities at Hotham I'd suggest that the measurement and evaluation is the subjective judgement of the driver of the vehicle.
    Note, it was one of these vehicles that went off the road in the village early in the season leaving the driver and passenger critically injured.
     
  6. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    not a good way to find the threshold!
     
  7. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    that is disturbing
     
  8. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not funny. But funny.
    Obviously common sense went out of fashion a long time ago.
     
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  9. steeps

    steeps Addicted

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    Quick one seeing we are talking about access conditions and grip levels etc. We are arriving on the 5th for a week stay (cant wait). We will be coming via Wodonga and via Harrietville as it's too far from NSW to come round via Omeo. We have a new AWD Kluger with the Snow Mode / Diff Lock / DAC controls etc, but road tyres. We will of course have Diamond chains. At what point does the Harrietville access get "closed" - ie how much snow has to fall ? Forecasts look like we will have quite good falls as we make our way up.
     
  10. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm not a hotham expert but I would say that the road closes because of wind and snow that is falling (or very recently fallen). the road is also more likely to close in darkness. the 5th is a long way out to make any call on how bad the weather will be.

    if I was you I would be devising a plan B (via Eden?) but not really expecting to need it.
     
  11. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    If it looks like the Harrietville approach is going to be closed then give consideration to coming around the back through Mitta, Mitta, Anglers Rest.

    Adds a bit on, but you'll get there.
     
    mr likes this.
  12. cookieman

    cookieman One of Us

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    I dont think its closed yet this season, and we have had some good 30cm snowfalls .
    I would say highly unlikely to close but if snowing moderately you would likely need to fit chains on 4WD towards the top.
    Snowing = excellent skiing.
     
    mr likes this.
  13. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    agree on more likely to shut as night falls and snowing....if it is snowing you can end up in convoys...... which can take alot longer than going via omeo

    with the mayhem and risk aversion going on if the forecast is for snow (particularly a front / blizzard) we just go via omeo
     
  14. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Based on previous times they have closed the road. it would have to be +10-15cms (at least) + other factors for them to shut the Harrietville approach.
     
  15. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    its the windblown around loch carpark that causes the issue. out of season (with less vicroads staff around) ive seen a 30cm fall result in 2m drifts up there
     
  16. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    IIRC, they use accelerometers and stuff. I can see how they get a standardised speed, but I'm not sure how they standardise the braking force.
     
  17. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah. have been a passenger in late spring and driven straight into a drift that was over the bonnet.

    cold walk back to the village!
     
  18. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    The problem isnt so much traction as visibility and its mainly the strong winds blowing drifts across the road immediately after its been ploughed off .
     
  19. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    That can be just as bad as you need to get over Mount Wills and that often requires chains on a road that has less clearing than Hotham.
    Also depends on whereabouts in NSW @steeps is coming from? @steeps ?
     
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  20. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    True.
    However that side of the ranges does get less snow.
     
  21. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    True. We had a horror trip one year coming that way from Jindabyne via Khancoban to Hotham. Had to fit chains 3 times. Dead Horse Gap, Mount Wills and not far out of Omeo.
    Last season with the Harrietville approach closed we went Sydney, Canberra, Cooma, Bombala onto Omeo and Hotham. Epic, 10.5 hours.
    Can't do that in an EV.
     
  22. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you are fitting chains not far out of Omeo it would have been ridic up on the hill!
     
  23. cqen2l

    cqen2l Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    That it was, in a Boganadore with ladder chains. That was the turning point to go Subaru. Was a good move until the turbo models and high performance tyres came into the mix.
     
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  24. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    This extract from “2017 Winter tyre & Studded Winter Tyre Test Report” by Glenn Billman of Mt Hotham Road Patrol explains.

    "Wheel Chains or similar types of traction methods have been used on vehicles for well over 100 years and have had many changes in design in that time but the principle has remained the same, to provide traction to rubber tyres in slippery icy conditions. It should also be noted that when wheel chains first came on to the market place, vehicles of the day had less torque, less horsepower, narrow wheels and a majority of roads were still greatly unpaved and chains therefore gained traction from the compacted snow as well as the surface of the road. In order for wheel chains to work effectively the chain links must penetrate in to a compacted surface that has enough integrity to prevent the wheels from spinning when power is applied to the drive wheels of the vehicle."
    "Good quality Wheel Chains should be constructed from high quality steel and in a diamond pattern configuration across the entire tread width of the tyre. Wheel chains provide traction by being fitted around the tyre of the drive wheels of a vehicle to act as an aggressive tread that is able to gain leverage in compacted snow and ice and be able to clear itself of snow as the wheel turns. It also needs to be appreciated that as mentioned, the vehicles in the past had less torque, less horsepower compared to the vehicles on the road today. Modern vehicles have a lot more torque, horsepower and are heaver and this in turn places a lot more stress on the wheel chains and this can contribute to the chains breaking, damage to vehicles and vehicles being left incapacitated on the road waiting for assistance. In Australia due to the lack of regulations and official standards a multitude of inferior and inappropriate products are on the market and these products can and do cause problems for motorists. Wheel chains should only be purchased or hired from a reputable dealer that expertly fits and demonstrates fitting to the vehicle in question and always consult the drivers’ manual in regard to correct wheel size and correct wheels to be fitted with chains."

    The full report can be downloaded from this link https://snowtyres.com.au/learn/mount-hotham-tyre-trial/
     
  25. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Surely
    Sorry to hear of all your issues - we’ve had epic delays even escaping Hotham village oin a blizzard. Most Sydney skiers really have no idea what the summit road is like in a night whiteout!

    No you are older & wiser, I’d have to agree with Seth’s coast option - at leadt if there’s any chance of road/snow issues.

    The road via Bruthen & Omeo is fairly good & well below snowline 99% of winter. A few bends, a few rougher bits, drop speed a tad, its fine.
     
    hothamite likes this.
  26. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Keep petrol tank topped up too - towns fewer & &. Far between. Petrol stations dont stay open late like city or Jindy. (;-)
     
  27. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I suggested going around the back from Albury-Wodonga to Omeo. A route that itself needs proper consideration and in the wrong storm could also be quite problematic.

    The coast route is loooong.
     
  28. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    During the mayhem of circa Aug 9 last year, I heard that this road was also closed.
     
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  29. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    Yeah it was.
     
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  30. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Yeah sometimes during "a big windy dump "you cannot get in or out of Hotham.
     
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  31. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    It would have to be historic to see Omeo road closed down.

    I can’t recall that happening in recent times.
     
  32. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Was closed both ways last year for about half a day From memory.
    But it was pretty epic :thumbs:
     
  33. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    There you go. I’m up there a lot less these days and didn’t hear about that.
     
  34. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    More carnage on the roads yesterday afternoon with one Rav 4 off the road and then a 4 car incident a bit further down. A little bit of snow and people drive like idiots.

    Saw a tosser in a black Mercedes with no chains on driving through the village with his windows down and sunroof open as its blowing and snowing a gale. He got stuck opposite Hotham Central
     
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  35. cookieman

    cookieman One of Us

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    Yep, was a cautious drive down the top of the hill late afternoon yesterday.
    Saw 3 fwd off the road.
    I didn't have chains on my awd sedan (as wasn't enforced at the time, but i believe straight after we left) but conditions required me to stay in low gear down the top sections.
    Had one car pressing behind me then next I looked they were there no more...dont know what happened to them?
     
  36. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Was it the real slim shady? [Screaming I don't give a f&$ with his windows down and system up]

     
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  37. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    These guys were contenders for Jerry of the day. Not sure how many no entry signs they passed. I counted at least 3.
    Well and truly bogged up to the axles out the back of The Arlberg.
     
  38. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Brickbats to whoever setup the gates down at the bottom of the Audi chair today.
    The overhead bar was so low it was like a limbo bar. I’m 5 foot 9 and I thought it was low. My mate who is 6ft+ hit his head a couple of time and had to duck on every run. Repeatedly brought it to their attention and nothing done.
     
  39. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    2ESki, hothamite, FlatLander and 4 others like this.
  40. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Following the discussion about poor parking at Hotham I spoke to Jason Nightingale from management who was quite polite and receptive.
    I gather the Mangement will be selling off some of the land around the Hotham Central carpark to make more money and there are plans to upgrade Loch carpark to 2 stories to fit 150 cars !!!! .
    I explained that self parking at Loch was a dumb idea because no one can see lines to park and the space is not well utilized as people are lazy and park all over the place.
    I asked whether an attendant could be there for 2 hrs say 8-10 am to supervise on weekends.
    He asked whether a bus from Davenport carpark back to Heavenly would be well received but I explained after all the rooting around getting there with chain fitting etc I would probably rather go to Falls for the day.
     
  41. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    IMHO the bus service just keeps getting worse overloading the busses with people just makes the lap time slower...
    The sooner they put in a lift in from central to the top of the big d the bettert that would solve a lot of bus traffic I recon.
     
  42. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    I think the locking everyone out of the Central Hotham carpark is part of the softening up process for when everyone will have to get on a shitty bus to go anywhere at Hotham.
     
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  43. jungfrau

    jungfrau One of Us

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    ... trying to buy 1/2 day pass online..
    Non existent??
     
  44. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    I hear you - one of our bug bears too!

    Mind you HSL have made half day tickets so expensive c/f a day ticket, they're almost unsellable these days.
     
  45. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Fwiw: during our 'week' (5-10 Aug), bus waits more generally poor ~20 mins+ every time, I.e. 7-8 times during stay. You can almost accept this off peak, say 10:30/11am, 2/3pm & say after 6pm. But when it's 8:45am (marching kids to ski classes), lunch (12) and stumps (4-5:30pm) that's unacceptable in my book (we pay $50 a day to help run this 'service').

    While the nice new buses are appreciated (headroom for six foot pluses), the lack of racks for wide twin tips and boards is pathetic. Wake up Hotham!

    Great snow though - if windy/foggy! That's a sign of a good season I gues!
     
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  46. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    We got stuck waiting 45mins at 4pm on a Sunday at stop 1 because it had started to snow at all the buses had to stop and put chains on... The line for the bus stretched back down the hill toward the Audi lift. Crazy
     
  47. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Could they not have premoted this by fitting chains to at least some of the buses in the ‘quiet’ of early afternoon?

    Its not like the ARC / contractor dont expect snow. There are forecasts, radar & live obs. (/:-0)
     
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  48. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Er try as pre-empted. Not premoted!!
     
  49. MHzMe

    MHzMe Addicted

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    A hearty cheer to the grooming team who have done a fantastic job keeping the Davenport trail open. Full coverage on the lower section (where it usually always gets bare) and the cover today was better than yesterday. Great to be able to ski down in the morning during school holidays when skiing with the family!
     
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  50. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Sounds groomers have fone a great job all round, inc keeping BRibbon open till the weekend.

    Capt. Obvious here: should Hotham SLC decide to install some SM on lower Dav A Trail,

    We’ll see better reliability most of the season and reduce use of buses - esp during mornings.

    Does anyone know if this aspect us on the radar? Its a major limitation in poor snow years.