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Hotham Needs.........

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by Coyles, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. davidr

    davidr Hard Yards

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    so they put snowmaking in along the creek as this made sense and even in a bad year they can make snow - even in mid july 2006 when the season was crap they made snow down there (under 1500) and we were able to ski the loop
     
  2. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    True, and Playground is a very old lift. Pre snowmaking.

    I remember the Hotham ads in the late 80s making much of how they 'farm' snow to keep their runs open.. while FC and Buller started mucking around with snow making. [​IMG]
     
    #352 VSG, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  3. davidr

    davidr Hard Yards

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    so if hotham gave you $5 million and said you can spend it but you need to add to the infrastructure what would you do?

    add more snowmaking
    add another lift
    replace a lift

    (i have no idea how much a lift costs)

    add you suggestions but it has to be feasible and under $5m

    if you would like to buy a second hand one and relocate it somewhere start here http://www.saminfo.com/marketplace/ka_detail.php?c=Lifts
     
    #353 davidr, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  4. Cuppa

    Cuppa A Local

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    One of the conspiracy theories for making Playground shorter, was that people would no longer finsh their day outside Zirky's. Instead they would get off the Village next to the company owned Swindlers.
     
  5. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    The company still groom a nice home run across the road bridge and ski-in to Zirkies Happy Hour. So I think not...
     
  6. Slushii

    Slushii Mostly missing in action...

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    A bit of a naive question, but is wind also a factor in whether certain lifts can be upgraded to a 6 seat?

    Making it a detachable still wouldn't help with wind-loading when the chairs are on the line and exposed...
     
  7. Cuppa

    Cuppa A Local

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    Bridge wasn't there when the Village was put in. Quiet a few ownerships have changed since that time as well.
     
    #357 Cuppa, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  8. Azz

    Azz One of Us

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    I have been told from what I think is a reliable source, that when they crunched the numbers of what sort of lift to put in, a quad high speed detach would result in less people moved per hour.

    I think it is because the time where the chair is slowed down makes the entire ride time (ie bum on seat, bum off seat) slower than getting on a constant speed lift.
    A longer distance for the lift to cover is needed to make a high speed work.

    Maybe thats why Ruined Castle has the conveyor at the load? Still has high speed, but no need to detach for loading.

    I am sure one out there will know more than I do !!!!
     
  9. the_guru

    the_guru One of Us

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    Carpets are a quick fix and still need large surface area.
    The problem, again I will quote myself.
    "A bad case of tight arsness"

    Yes. Putting in a new lift is expensive. So is anything when you run a business.
    Do you serve plastic or glass to save bucks at your pub?
     
  10. simo_tele

    simo_tele One of Us

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    Never gonna happen but:
    bridge over road to re-join that side of summit into useable terrain.
    Fill in MJ's to return that area to a good length consistent fall-line
    Glade the face to the skiiers right of Hackers/over the other side of the creek

    Hothams biggest problem is the short runs and regular traverses. Opening new terrain/restoring terrain to facilitate longer, fall-line runs would put it firmly in the top-resort-in-town ranking.
     
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  11. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    detach don't load any slower than fixed grip. The chair slows down but the spacing between chairs increases. It's a loop. The number of chairs passing any point of the lift in any unit of time is the same.
     
    #361 Snow Blowey, Jul 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  12. the_guru

    the_guru One of Us

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    The singles race at Village to extend to just in behind the ticket box.
    You can't get to the singles line at Village until the groups get in the race.
    Shouldn't be like that..
     
  13. stansi

    stansi One of Us

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  14. Xstaff

    Xstaff Hard Yards

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    This is by far the best idea so far.
    Put new high speed 6 seater on heavenly, move old heavenly chair to above loacation or just add it to village chair with up and down loading..
     
    #364 Xstaff, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  15. tommy_XD

    tommy_XD Hard Yards

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    A mid station on a GP lift would barely be usable, you can't have people loading onto chairs that have already been loaded at the bottom station...
    Plus, I'm not sure new terrain is the solution at Hotham, at least in the short term. I can only speak from my own experience, but for me it's a rare day that you wait more than five minutes in a lift line, even at HV, unless ski patrol have stopped the lift. I have never waited more than ~one minute in a line at Gotcha and Orchard/Keoghs lifts, and if the lifts that are already in place fail to run at capacity, surely more lifts would just mean more expensive lift tickets? In any case, GP is rather easily accessed anyway, especially when cat skiing operates, wouldn't a lift on the other side of HV make more sense as it has a much more consistent fall line and higher elevation? Hotham has amazing terrain and IMO the best place to ski in Victoria, but it is held back by the road, the slalom gully bottleneck and the nature of the village, among many other things... For me, Hotham needs to market itself to the more advanced market, as these are customers more likely to return and bring others with them. I also strongly believe that if Hotham is going to attract more customers to make new terrain possible, it needs to drop lift ticket prices... This might seem counter productive, but a $10 drop will make it so much more attractive than anywhere else and thus, more customers. I also think a system needs to be put in place where all of the empty beds across the mountain can be seen in one place.

    Linking the summit/roadrunner with HV would be the next step, and I really like the idea of glading skiers right of the village chair, that is brilliant!

    In the future...
    Perhaps a tow on the village side of higgi for a proper rail/box park, and then an airbag at the basin in front of the swindlers deck... As well as new terrain on the other side of the top of HV...
     
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  16. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    The other side of Heavenly (or Pee Gully as it is commonly known) is north facing, therefore the snow retention would not be anywhere near as lasting as the proposed expansion on GP, especially the south east option.

    I do agree that there is no point expanding terrain until the patronage calls for it, and the best way to do that would be through having a consistent snow cover over a large amount of existing terrain through snow making and grooming in order to gain a reputation as having a good cover for the length of the season

    a tow on the village side of higgi sounds to me like a great idea, it could also potentially serve as an access lift for beginners to get to big D from that side of the mountain, reducing the need for the shuttle buses to a small extent
     
  17. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Rather than start a new thread.

    Google Earth imagery has recently improved in clarity.

    [​IMG]
     
    #367 VSG, Aug 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  18. Wiseass

    Wiseass First Runs

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    Just continuing on from the ticket prices topic I cannot believe you are in favor of the criminal ticket prices." $108 bucks a day" this is insane come on man wake up. More and more folks are skiing overseas and thats fact.
    Your kidding ourself if you think that these INFLATED prices go "just to run the lifts". Ask Reno Grollo from Buller Ski lifts what new Ferrari he has bought this year? Greedy lift companies are taking the profit just like greedy mining magnets of Australia!
    Tell me why is downhill skiing in Australia only afforded by the wealthy and why is skiing in Australia a "rich mans sport"?!
    It's not fair that it cost a family of four $1000 BUCKS A DAY in Australia.
    This insanity has got to stop or and its already happening businesses on the hill will start selling up due to folks going OS and NZ.
    Its simple Reno reduce the price of tickets according to the number of lifts operating on the mountain for that particular day, This will also get the crowds up there. No-one should be made to pay full price for "4 lifts operating" and on blizzard and windy days.

    Now you see tickets prices should be made affordable so everyone can have some of that white fun.
    Ps. You don't really think our Hills in VIC and NSW compare to the snow in the Rocky Mt ranges, the Andes, Swiss Alps and so on and so on….?
     
  19. PolePlant

    PolePlant Guest

    No joy with it in Buller forum.
    Doubt you'll get bites here.
     
    #369 PolePlant, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  20. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Post fail

    That link is only for YOUR computer

    Won't work for anyone else

    You need to upload it somewhere
     
  21. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    fair enough, will do
     
  22. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    As long as it's a public document and not meant for internal use then post away

    Any lift upgrades in Australia are welcome
     
  23. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    any suggestions of a quick way to do it?
     
  24. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    #374 skiflat, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  25. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    This one looks like it works

    Clicky
     
    #375 Lankyness, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
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  26. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    It does [​IMG]

    Thanks for posting!

    Page 15 gives us the most hope [​IMG]
     
    #376 skiflat, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  27. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    It is meant as a precursor to Sandy's Golden Point idea
     
  28. the_guru

    the_guru One of Us

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    Hotham needs a big clean out!
    Goodbye peroxide girls!!
     
  29. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More woke than thou.
    Good thinking Lankyness, it's nice to see someone who has the time to independently analyse the lift layout. [​IMG]

    But I'm not sure of the wisdom of part of your "Master Plan" beginning on slide 9 that involves running a lift all the way from Swindler's Creek to near the top station of Summit. This would involve a huge investment (especially if it's a gondola or detachable chair), BUT the whole lift would need to be closed down in strong winds. The existing Village and Playground chairs can get a bit windy, but they can continue operating when the more exposed Summit lift is on wind hold. On windy days the new lift would also have to close just because the top 20% of it was inoperable.

    Even if it were to be built it wouldn't quite be the longest lift in Australia. Kosciusko Exp at Thredbo is 1860 metres long and Horse Hill at Buller is about 1700m(?). By contrast Heavenly Valley is 845 metres long and Village is 800 metres. But that's just me being a pedantic lift nerd. It's a nicely thought out plan that would improve the flow of skiers across the mountain (and it is pretty awkward at the moment) as well as improving the utilisation of good, but under used runs.
     
    #379 Bogong, Feb 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  30. Lankyness

    Lankyness First Runs

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    I didn't realise that the cross winds were that much of a problem, some of the wind i've experienced going up road runner has felt stronger than anywhere else that i've skied in the world, yet they manage to keep it open when they were that high. maybe the lifties dropped the ball in that instance

    I blame my measurement tool in google earth for stating that it would be the longest in Victoria, it tells me that Horse Hill is 1250 and my one is 1530

    Cheers for the good word though Bogong!
    I'm already looking at ways that the replacement of Grimus at Buller could be lengthened/realigned to open connecting runs between it and the new Burnt Hut, seems like an alright idea
     
  31. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the validity of my argument versus your proposal depends on how many days the Summit and Road Runner quads at Hotham are closed due to strong winds. If it's only one day a season, then it's not much of an issue, but if it's 10 or more days each winter, that might be a problem.

    P.S. I put a question mark after the 1700? metre length for Horse Hill because I'm not certain about it's length. But by way of comparison, when Tyrol T-bar used to extend all the way from the creek to Baldy it was 1610 metres long. But it was shortened over years ago.
     
  32. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Stumbled across pics and text on the Harrietville to Hotham train proposal.

     
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  33. hongomania

    hongomania One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hotham needs the entire resort infrastructure to be scrapped and started again

    Most useful part of the resort is faster bc access

    All The best terrain is "sidecountry"

    The lift network makes no sense, underutilising so much of the terrain, and sooooo many lift changes and traverses to get anywhere

    HV is boring and frustrating - couple of turns and youre back into slalom gully, avoiding dangerous punters and being told off by skipo

    Give me top to bottom buller fall line (and more varied terrain and mountain vibes) anyday

    These points all became irrelevant during 2020 - slalom gully when its empty is actually a hoot - grip and rip

    Section of mt higgi above the road isnt utilised - BR could be way longer

    So much unused vertical

    Noticeboard to the pipeline should have summer grooming and snow farming / grooming so its actually rideable, and not giant lumps caused by punter snowboarders doing dig "turns" cause the terrain is beyond them

    Noticeboard is arguably the best ski run (length x consistent pitch) on the mountain, yet it's rarely covered as too many bushes and no grooming or farming

    Same with BR - occasionally groom and farm and summer groom so the snow isnt lumpy shark attack bs

    Wheres the second large bridge from summit so can ski directly to wendix

    Other than aus drift, no real "carve it up" runs

    Aus drift could be extended to skiiers left gully...Maybe

    Between lindays and the ridge should really have its own lift - best terrain and snow on the mountain, although less people there is good

    Orchard is so short and slow, boring

    I feel like at hotham you are rarely "in your own world" if that makes sense - i get this feeling at Buller. However 2018/19 did provide this feeling, skiing back from keoghs load to HV via valley trail - with *so* much snow the creek was totally filled in

    Lose village and HV and have one lift from top to bottom

    Summit chair is disgustingly slow

    Backside of Big D (womens downhill area? I dunno i don't do names) is some of the most delicious terrain and holds snow well, yet they didnt lift it?

    If only hotham had bullers budget for mountain ops (or is it just Buller crew is really that good)

    On a positive note to finish - hotham aren't lying when they call it the powder captial of aus - steep and deep
     
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  34. hongomania

    hongomania One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Lets not forget the idiotic decision by rmb to put that building in the middle of corral car park and have dedicated Audi spaces. What a f*n joke honestly, less carparking in the village - dumb - grinds my gears

    Oh and wheres the transport from DP to the genny - how else am i mean to get to the genny and back to stimulate its economy by binge drinking with many friends

    Or hotham - DP transport at say 730pm? Cant even have apres drinks and enjoy the vibes as gotta drive back to DP
     
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  35. hongomania

    hongomania One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  36. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Put on a head torch , Nordic pattern bases and XC ski back to DP!!!
     
  37. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    that 'gross new ski terrain' is fkn massive and has some pretty phenomenal skiing areas, nothing south of the existing resort but alot more southsides and heaps of good east sides
     
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  38. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    some of my best memories ATM doing this with older kids or friends, an excellent level of sketchiness
     
  39. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Yep that's a massive fail

    Can't go out in Hotham in the evening unless you drive

    Run 1 bus on the hour or so. Not that hard or $$
     
  40. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    they used to didnt they, or am i imagining a drunk history
     
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  41. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    They def did, can't remember what time last ride was though
     
    #391 GS, Dec 22, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
  42. Hothski

    Hothski Hard Yards

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    How about a lift/platter from Corral Carpark area to the top of Higgi. Would remove the dependence on the buses to get to to Davenport Village. Or - extend Blue Ribbon over the road and add a mid station at the Davenport Trail. Would achieve the same result. Then we can start looking at extending the lift accessed ski area........
     
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