1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW REGISTRATIONS

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Hotham Vs Buller

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Ben S, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The traverse isn’t that bad. What determines if it’s worth it is the size of the queue at Wombat.
     
  2. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    At least someone got it.
     
    luvthabumps, CarveMan and dibl0c like this.
  3. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    I'm sure if you took time taken from top of lift to top of lift vs. time skiing a run, you would find many better options on that side of the hill. In fact, I know you would.
     
  4. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    For sure.
     
  5. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    Having said that, in the old days a blast down Robins or PK first thing before people managed to get to the bottom of Wombat was a hoot. The problem is, since Wombat went in people can see you, they know about those runs. When it was only Fed it was a different story.
     
    luvthabumps and dibl0c like this.
  6. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    75,135
    Likes Received:
    38,743
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    I rated it.
     
    dibl0c and Vermillion like this.
  7. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    When did Wombat go in? 1993?
     
  8. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    Those that know, know, those that dont.....are one of them.
     
    dibl0c and Edgecrusher like this.
  9. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    I remember quite a few years of skiing whiskey creek down to Fed on barely enough snow (before they had snowmaking down there) and I start skiing in 1988, so i'm gonna say sometime between 1992-1994.
     
  10. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Well I never skied at Buller until I started Uni in 1994, and I can't ever remember Wombat not being there.
     
  11. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    It was great. The lift queues werent so great but there was no Wombat (just LBS) and the Wombat bowl wasnt visible to anyone unless you were in it. It also was better cleared below the bottom cat track.
     
  12. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    75,135
    Likes Received:
    38,743
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Yeah it went in 93, that was Grollo’s first year of owning Buller. Unfortunately in 93 it snowed a bunch on Queen’s Birthday and then forgot for the rest of the season so it didn’t run for long. Snowmaking went in the following summer!
     
  13. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,740
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
  14. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    75,135
    Likes Received:
    38,743
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    FWIW Chamois Chair was also 93. Unsure if it actually ran that year!
     
    dibl0c and Vermillion like this.
  15. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    RIP death poma.
     
    dibl0c and Bogong like this.
  16. Timmossy

    Timmossy One of Us

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    426
    From an old mag I have lying around - Australian Skiing Edition 1 1993.
     
    MickM and FlatLander like this.
  17. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    He did not mention Hangmans and Lois.
     
    dibl0c likes this.
  18. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,740
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    Oh how I wish modern ski magazines still had things like resort developments and changes in them. Today all we get are articles on foreign travel and ads for blocks of flats, along with occasional gear reviews. I stopped buying ski mags years ago, because they don't cover the stuff I'm interested in any more. :(
     
    nezumi likes this.
  19. MickM

    MickM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,030
    Likes Received:
    1,246
    Location:
    Gordon, Vic
    I remember that article. Back in the days of buying skimags!
     
  20. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Well, he mentioned "Loise". Close!
     
  21. dibl0c

    dibl0c A man without wasta is not a man! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    15,278
    Likes Received:
    21,990
    Location:
    #shitadelaide or #brisbogan ... take your pick.
    That was one of the years I was skipping school on the hill all season and walked past it every day.

    It didn't.
     
    Vermillion likes this.
  22. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    My lodge looked out on to it. It looked good at least.
     
  23. dibl0c

    dibl0c A man without wasta is not a man! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    15,278
    Likes Received:
    21,990
    Location:
    #shitadelaide or #brisbogan ... take your pick.
    Yeah, I know which lodge you were in. :thumbs:

    It did look good. I think it ran for foot traffic only on a couple of days for novelty value. Some kids in our lodge who were Techne Team rats at the time went for a spin. I was jealous.
     
  24. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    821
    Location:
    Melburn
    Getting back to this - who knows? Fanny's @ Buller, Mary's @ Hotham at no.1. For that matter, anything that is rated double-black diamond.

    On that point and going by the trail maps of each resort (so only inbounds) and by my count, the double-black diamond scoreboard reads:

    Buller: 0
    Hotham: 8 (Lindsay's, Gotcha Ridge, Gotcha, The Chute, Mary's Slide, Coles Bowl, Out of your tree, Chisholms)

    https://cdn.mtbullercdn.com.au/assets/images/documents/maps/bsl-2019-trail-map.pdf
    https://www.mthotham.com.au/Portals/0/Hotham/Maps/hotham-trail-map-17.pdf
     
    Ben S and cookieman like this.
  25. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    35,590
    Likes Received:
    14,221
    Location:
    On a wave or mountain face near you.
    Is there a run more dangerous than Slalom gully at about 3.30 in the afternoon? Like 10 pin bowling on cobblestones
     
    Tanuki, Bogong, Ben S and 1 other person like this.
  26. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,232
    Likes Received:
    6,287
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    Many of Hothams so called double black really aren’t. Only labelled to discourage folk for sketchy gully and exit.
     
  27. Edgecrusher

    Edgecrusher Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    61,612
    Likes Received:
    36,109
    Location:
    The Southern Capital
    Bottom of Bourke Street at a similar hour? At least Slalom Gully doesn't have the punters in jeans wandering about. :confused:
     
    parkmonkey likes this.
  28. willsnow

    willsnow Addicted

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2017
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    178
    I'm not a skier who regularly venture to those runs and I've followed this thread not for a bucket-list to do, but for a list of runs NOT to do.

    If, following the logic that Fanny's is as difficult as Mary's, then Fanny's should really be rated double black. However, it's only rated as a black run in Buller (Somebody once casually said to me that I should try Fanny's cos it's just a black run, not a double black).

    Does that mean that Buller should rate some of the black runs in-bounds as double black? Or, vice versa, should Hotham be rating some of the double black as black?

    Also, there are double black runs in-bounds in Buller in the Canyon area, but they are not named in this year's trail map (who knows why). You can see them in previous year's map.
     
  29. Timmossy

    Timmossy One of Us

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    426
    SHUT

    THIS

    THREAD

    DOWN
     
  30. Ben S

    Ben S Early Days

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2019
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    3
    Whys that?
     
  31. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,396
    Likes Received:
    306
    Location:
    Ovens Valley N.E Vico
    Agree and 50m of steep vert wtf
     
  32. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    8,657
    Likes Received:
    3,367
    Location:
    Back in MEL ( with annual trips to the 604 )
    You'd get beaten up for less in these forums now. Although didn't they put Hangmans on a fairly recent trail map. Not there now though.

    Yeah, it's a real shame there's nothing really steep inbounds at Buller...........
     
  33. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    63,524
    Likes Received:
    10,703
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Hotham: 8 (Lindsay's, Gotcha Ridge, Gotcha, The Chute, Mary's Slide, Coles Bowl, Out of your tree, Chisholms)
    + Wall of Death on the trail map.

    However, Gotcha, Mary's Slide and Wall of Death are definitely not double black.
    Maybe one or two of the others are, because some have rocks in the middle, or are pretty steep.
     
    Ben S likes this.
  34. Ben S

    Ben S Early Days

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2019
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    3
    Wall
    Which ones would you say are double black?
     
  35. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,302
    Likes Received:
    9,745
    Location:
    Bonbeach, Vic
    The wall of death is a complete waste of time.
    Crappy fall line is crappy.

    As for bullers steeps, ive got no idea on the names but ive been shown when its at its best some excellent terrain.
    Buller and Hotham areveasily the best Australian resorts inbounds overall.
    The other big 3 have a few nice spots too but not a patch on B and H.
    thredbos ok too.
     
  36. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    821
    Location:
    Melburn
    I didn't mean that Fanny's = as difficult as Mary's, I meant that those are the most difficult on each mtn.

    pretty subjective as has been pointed out - to me all the dbl black runs are much the same. On some days (like last week), runs that are black can be upgraded to dbl-blk based on conditions and other times the area can be closed due to refreeze.

    Imagine used to be blue (the steepest one in Aus, was 43% if I remember correctly) but now the lower half is black. If only they kept the grading percentages on the trail signs...

    In some countries, they have triple-black diamonds but that's another discussion...
     
  37. Vermillion

    Vermillion Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    70,827
    Likes Received:
    25,117
    Location:
    Cranhole, Melbourne, VIC
    Fannys isnt the most challenging run at Buller.

    Just because a run is rated 'double black' doesnt mean that it's equivalent to other double blacks. Perisher has a double black run too. Runs are just harder or easier than other runs.
     
    dibl0c, CarveMan and The Plowking like this.
  38. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    3,362
    Likes Received:
    3,141
    One is clearly far better than the other.
     
    fenrir and Hermannator like this.
  39. Jellybeans

    Jellybeans Walking on a dream Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2015
    Messages:
    8,209
    Likes Received:
    9,559
    Location:
    Box Hill, Vic.
    They are supposed to only be used to compare runs within a resort.
    Which basically means a run can be changed for marketing or navigational reasons.
    Like when Family Run was changed from green to blue. It’s more mellow than Bourke Street, but access is hard so changed. Or Dam Run turned from blue to black.

    It isn’t meant to compare between resorts.
     
    Bogong likes this.
  40. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    In peak conditions, absolutely obvious choice, agree.
     
  41. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,302
    Likes Received:
    9,745
    Location:
    Bonbeach, Vic
    Always that asterisk though.
    For both snow and weekend crowds.
     
    Bogong likes this.
  42. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Yeah. Hotham has better snow, but Buller's closer, easier access, has a more interesting village, has better looking people, better restaurants, less chip on shoulder, Koflers etc. No comp bro.
     
  43. fenrir

    fenrir One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2010
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    305
    This thread reminds me of the joke about two guys in a bar in Albury/Woodonga arguing over whether Tooheys or VB is the better beer. Eventually to settle the argument they sent sample of the beer off to the CSIRO for an objective test.

    The results came back a week later: "Both horses have hepatitis".
     
    dibl0c, Pink, Edgecrusher and 4 others like this.
  44. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    821
    Location:
    Melburn
  45. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    75,135
    Likes Received:
    38,743
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    All $$$$$. Anna Segal did too to Thredbo.
     
    dibl0c likes this.
  46. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The Plowking likes this.
  47. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    11,740
    Likes Received:
    1,936
    Location:
    The pointy end, fully reclined
    I heard the same joke but it was Cascade v. Boags at a pub at Ross in the Tassie midlands on the 42nd parallel.
    I guess it easily translates to most "border" towns.
     
  48. MidLifeMadman

    MidLifeMadman Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    35
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Please mods...lock this one down!!

    Exercise in futility.
     
  49. absentskier

    absentskier Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2010
    Messages:
    25,047
    Likes Received:
    13,640
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm enjoying it!
     
  50. Ramshead

    Ramshead One of Us

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    984
    Likes Received:
    1,452
    Location:
    Sydney
    I like this post. FWIW this NSW skier rates Hotham steeps over Buller steeps any day. So much goodness over Mary’s and Gotcha side of the hill. Buller steeps are too icy and/or shrubby 95 ski days outa 100.

    But I dispute the Tassie point, Bogong – nice image of (I assume) upper tow at Mt Mawson though that is.

    As proof, here are four Thredbo images I took just today. All steep slopes in these pics require just one lift, are part of much longer runs, and can be easily lapped.

     
    Bogong likes this.