How to really choose lodge membership (& approx cost)

teleroo

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Well it's going to need a different model isn't it. Don't need full replacement cost a la insurance, just enough to make rebuild possible, inevitably with some new debt.
 
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teleroo

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try $4m replacement cost on a lodge worth $1m on the market.
that's 80 years at $20k pa. I doubt that any club in vic had a surplus last year and not looking likely this year.
meanwhile you are in breach of the lease if you are not insured
Probably 40 yrs given the $$ will be earning a return on the way. But yeh..
 

teleroo

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Does make pre-emptive hardening of structures a much more important consideration.
 

Any

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Yeah not sure re requirements in NSW but from chatting to a mate in insurance he has suggested some go naked. Something to be aware of when looking at clubs OP
Does make pre-emptive hardening of structures a much more important consideration.
insurance has gone silly with the fire stuff, and we're not allowed to clear trees for a fire barrier anyway.
if a fire does come through, with no fire clearing done, and no insurance, its going to be a big disaster.

not particularly lodge related, there are some buildings up here that are too big to insure by any practical means.
our insurance costs have gone up 4x, but last I heard, buildings like the Arlberg were going to be 10-20x. so they just don't have insurance at all now.
afaik most banks wont carry loans on properties without insurance, so owners are being forced to sell, flooding the market with properties, and getting poor value on them.
 

CarveMan

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nsurance has gone silly with the fire stuff, and we're not allowed to clear trees for a fire barrier anyway.
if a fire does come through, with no fire clearing done, and no insurance, its going to be a big disaster
That’s the crazy thing, I’ve been emailing the Buller RMB about some trees that are literally overhanging our building, if I got an independent bushfire consultant to prepare a report they would say clear them all, but they were being pretty reluctant. Meanwhile in the big storm half of them broke which is good so we will see about clearing up the rest this summer.
 

Any

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That’s the crazy thing, I’ve been emailing the Buller RMB about some trees that are literally overhanging our building, if I got an independent bushfire consultant to prepare a report they would say clear them all, but they were being pretty reluctant. Meanwhile in the big storm half of them broke which is good so we will see about clearing up the rest this summer.
some locals here are suddenly finding their trees had fallen overnight after a rather large but silent rodent has gnawed a perfect slice into the tree's base! *gosh*
(supposedly electric chainsaws are the go)
 

Young Angus

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That’s the crazy thing, I’ve been emailing the Buller RMB about some trees that are literally overhanging our building, if I got an independent bushfire consultant to prepare a report they would say clear them all, but they were being pretty reluctant. Meanwhile in the big storm half of them broke which is good so we will see about clearing up the rest this summer.
This kind of thing is very silly, why are they reluctant to clear trees that pose fire risk? I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make much sense.
 
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CarveMan

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This kind of thing is very silly, why are they reluctant to clear trees that pose fire risk? I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make much sense.
Enviro reasons. But I wonder if the whole insurance crunch will change that.

Don’t get me wrong it’s nice, the view out of our girls bedroom is really nice, but not when you have snow gums over your roof ready to explode in a fire.

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28355971-C8D8-4575-89C5-6CE01E5AEF29.jpeg
 
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Slush

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On the origional topic;
In Vic, Hotham has the best and most economical club scene. Baw Baw and Falls seem to be a bit more expensive but generally nicer premises, and then there is Buller.
My lodge (Hotham) has 28 beds and 37 members of which ~ 25 members are active during peak season. Every member who wants access gets a room for their family for a week during the peak 4 weeks (last week of July, first 3 of August). Memberships are availiable around $7k, normally no annual fee, but you must contribute effort (one weekend a year etc). Club constitution mandates that we are a club run for members and their families. We fill booking gaps with public bookings to balance the budget. We have a number of second generation members, and a good percentage of members socialise outside of skiing.
We try to set fees such that we cover annual costs and depreciation. We used to baseline public fees on the cost of a lift ticket, but with Vail pumping lift ticket prices up, we are now cheaper.
My membership paid for itself in about 5 years. If my kids don't want it, I'll donate it back to the club when my knees expire.

re: insurance
Like others, we have taken a beating recently. One approach we have discussed is to retain a fund of $50k (which we have) to pay to clear the site and return it to RMB in the event of being burnt out. It is getting to the point where we cannot justify the cost of insurance vs annual revenue. Liability insurance would still be required however, and it appears difficult to get one without another.

If I were to look at membership now I'd ask to see;
- actual bookings after members had booked but before public bookings open.
- P&L for 5 years, plus rates and annual fees.
- storage for ski's etc plus lockers for other stuff

The one thing we don't have, but which would be nice, is reciprical rights to another mountain.

Slush.
 
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Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

but a dream within a dream
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On the origional topic;
In Vic, Hotham has the best and most economical club scene. Baw Baw and Falls seem to be a bit more expensive but generally nicer premises, and then there is Buller.
I gather you mean Buller is the most expensive?
my brother bought into a lodge there a few years ago for $15k
I joined a lodge in Jindy two years ago for $10k - a similar standard but not really a comparison as not on snow
 
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Any

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Won by Eumarellah two years running. :p
Bembooka snatched it last year in your absence.
but we've concluded that they cheated.
one of their pushers fell over in front of us, we had to swerve around, and he didn't cross the finish line until after everyone else.

this year we want to propose a not finished until whole team has crossed the line rule ;P

118860595_10164115510585511_5234082100305166982_n.jpg
 

currawong

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a friend asked me to join her buller club 35 years ago. it was $14k then. put me off even thinking about clubs for 20 years.
 

Slush

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a friend asked me to join her buller club 35 years ago. it was $14k then. put me off even thinking about clubs for 20 years.
If you think about it in hindsight, that was probably a fair price... and would have paid itself off well and truly (if you ski Buller of course...)

Just looking at our lodge, it would be north of a $million to build today. Assuming you get the site for free.
37 members times $7k each is $259k. So a $7k membership buys you ~$30k of value.

I'd buy into a lodge at Falls today if there was one availiable with those metrics.
 

currawong

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If you think about it in hindsight, that was probably a fair price... and would have paid itself off well and truly (if you ski Buller of course...)

Just looking at our lodge, it would be north of a $million to build today. Assuming you get the site for free.
37 members times $7k each is $259k. So a $7k membership buys you ~$30k of value.

I'd buy into a lodge at Falls today if there was one availiable with those metrics.
ours has recently been valued at over $5m replacement value. I paid less than $5k to join ~15 years ago, although there has been a call on members since then to help fund lease renewal upgrade.

but lodge resale value is way less.
 

CarveMan

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A lot of Perisher lodges were built by the members with massive working bees supervised by a couple of tradies. Probably other resorts too.
My wife’s family lodge was built with building scraps they found on the side of the road because their permissive occupancy was going to expire if they didn’t build on it. My family’s lodge was built by my dad and his mates, very little if any proper trades used.
 
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CarveMan

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building regs these days make it pretty much impossible for a group of keen amateurs to do what so many club founders did

even working bees can only do so much these days before you need to bring in skilled people.
The lodge I managed while I was instructing is super viable because they have a number of tradies in the membership
 

Hermannator

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...

If I were to look at membership now I'd ask to see;
- actual bookings after members had booked but before public bookings open.
- P&L for 5 years, plus rates and annual fees.
- storage for ski's etc plus lockers for other stuff
...
Ya not askin much!
 

Hermannator

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There are clubs with no buy-in e.g. start as an associate member (costs more than a "full" member) and a one-off fee of <$1k to become a full member after a certain period of time (e.g. 3 years).

Typically bookings open month(s) before the season according to quota (e.g. you can book one peak period and two off-pk periods) and then once season begins it's "open slather"

Annual m/ships in the hundreds with bednights for members < $50pp pn
 

Sandy

Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room
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My wife’s family lodge was built with building scraps they found on the side of the road because their permissive occupancy was going to expire if they didn’t build on it. My family’s lodge was built by my dad and his mates, very little if any proper trades used.
That's how our place at Hotham was constructed. Forced, unpaid labour. :D
Same, although I wasn't around at the start.
I think if trying to build these days, I think it would probably be wise to "gift" memberships to a few tradies, or "pay" them with a membership.
 
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