How will Oz resorts deal with mass move to Electric Vehicles later this decade ?

Donza

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Can I get in with my bogan small dick rivian? Or only my leaf? What about a cyber truck?

Why not just push bikes? Or even better walking. Actually walking with no shoes and no clothes. All the way from your self sustaining eco property made from reclaimed waste in space.
No...you're special.
You can drive to the top.
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Myazma

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Why not. Parks are improving vehicle access to other parks. Can drive to the top of Minyon falls these days.
Still gotta leg it to the bottom of Minyon. Been able to drive to the top for at least 40 years. Be interested in how much fossil fuel it's taking to create a walking track.
 

Ultra2.0

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Sorry I probably over-summarised in my post above.

I set the arrival SoC to 70% - ie plan to have 70% battery when I park the car in Smiggins for the start of the week - BUT I set the departure SoC to 50% for the trip home (allowing for 20% drop over the ~8 days the car is parked buried in snow and for getting it out and warming the car and the battery being totally cold for the drive down the hill).

I know the NRMA charger in Jindy should just about be a freewheel coast down the hill BUT what if it is in use or a non-EV has decided to park there to go to Nuggets or it is broken? Being sure of getting to the Tesla supercharger in Cooma (or the ChargeFox one next to Snowy Hydro as a fallback) seems important vs putting everything on the NRMA Jindy charger being ok/available/etc and being stuck there indefinitely otherwise with no practical charging fallback. So currently I wouldn’t want to be starting the trip down from Smiggins (ie from powering the car up, before digging out, warming it up, etc) with less than 50% battery.

As someone else suggested, a fast charging station in the Sawpit carpark would be brilliant. I’m not holding my breath for National Parks to get on board with it just yet though, despite how good the optics of them hosting such a station within their overall environmental remit would be.
from my use experience, you dont really need a DC fast charger anywhere other than Jindy, maybe more as the fleet size increases, but in reality, sitting for 8 days wont use as much as you think, and preheating is almost unmeasured in it battery level when you use it.
but the more trips you do, the more confidence you gain in your range and use cases. with a 100% charge at Canberra, you could make it back to Cooma after 8 days at smigs. after a few hours, the car goes into a sleep mode, our winters have no real effect on phantom drain, -20 is a different story. Sentry mode does use the battery noticeably after a few days, as its running the cameras, keeping the uplink active, and heating all the sensors. no point in leaving that on when it buried in snow

One good thing about Tesla, is their range estimates are very accurate. especially once you get down to the 10% level.

Cabin overheat protection does drain the battery during the day noticeably, in summer sun at work, ill lose 15Km range a day to cabin overheat protection, as the car is running the aircon to keep cabin temps at a constant 37 degC.

If i was doing the same trip, i would top up at Cooma on the supercharger to about 80% while shopping etc, then aim to return there, of if traffic is heavy, might even press on to Canberra charger. when in Jindy, take the charger if you need to stop at Nuggs. if its in use, no drama. With the LR you should have a bit more range than i do, my max is about 480Km.
 
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Sir Surfalot

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with a 100% charge at Canberra, you could make it back to Cooma after 8 days at smigs
Thanks. Not having access to effective overnight charging anywhere in the Snowies, I’m more than happy if there are a decent number of DC chargers anywhere - either a big setup like a Tesla supercharger, or several separate smaller ones within say 50km of each other - but having to rely on what is just two parking bays in Jindabyne shops is a bit of a tough ask in winter peak season... Again for me by myself if I had to grovel my way back to the caravan park in Berridale on 5% power - with the single Jindy charging option being unavailable when I needed it - and plug the granny charger in next to my van overnight to charge at whatever ridiculously low rate wouldn’t pop the circuit breaker and just stay in my van overnight and come home the next day (after then charging properly in Cooma or Canberra) BUT with my family with me that is a non-starter as a fallback option.

A big issue too - and it will be for a lot of people - is right now those fast charging stops between Sydney and the snow are all at places nobody else in my family is going to put up with hanging around for 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, *then* they will still want to make a (what would be extra) stop where they actually wanted to stop. Again with destination charging - or just being able to run the granny charger overnight where you are staying - a lot of the family-unfriendly and time-consuming DC charging goes away because you are starting from “full”, so the situation for someone with a house in Jindy is very different from someone staying/parking on the hill.
 

davidg

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I'm the first to admit that I often am too focused on getting to a place and don't stop often/long enough on the way. Is this just going to be another thing that we adapt to? It will surely please the safe driving advocates. We are told to stop every 2-3 hours and encouraged with free tea and coffee. The servo is somewhere most of us hate to visit due to chaos and time it takes. Smart planners, whether they be towns or businesses, will create places that we WANT to stop at as a preference - charging in proximity to a nice place to stretch the legs, eat/drink, check out the plumbing.

We are already starting to do this on bigger trips now even in our carbon demon - get away early, look for a spot 2 hours down the road to grab a quick breakfast - a takeaway coffee is min 5 minute stop anyway, add food and it's 10-15, if you sit in the park for another 5, that's a charge. Stop somewhere for lunch, could even just be pulling it from the boot, but you get a proper stop.
Whats is old is new again.

Tesla could even start some sort of guide with a star rating system for the various charging locations. The additional exposure generated by the guide may encourage people to open restaraunts to service these travellers which could then be included in the star ranting system.

Eventually I suppose the restaraunt rating system will become its own beast and the charging hubs will become souless, crowded beacons of capitalism stuck at regular intervals along major arterial roads and highways.

Or something along those lines anyway...
 

KylePee

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Whats is old is new again.

Tesla could even start some sort of guide with a star rating system for the various charging locations. The additional exposure generated by the guide may encourage people to open restaraunts to service these travellers which could then be included in the star ranting system.

Eventually I suppose the restaraunt rating system will become its own beast and th charging hubs will become souless, crowded beacons of capitalism stuck at regular intervals along major arterial roads and highways.

Or something along those lines anyway...
Have you been rewarding about how the Michelin star system started?
 
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bengarden

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Its one of the problems i have with EV. MOst people already drive their ICE car to the limit of performance. This creates an environment that is dangerous to pedestrians and impedes traffic flow. Drivers negotiating traffic management road features too fast impede traffic flow. e.g. roundabouts work on the principle of steady flow. People that approach at warp speed, and drive through them at warp speed, scare people away from entering when they should - which is anytime the roundabout has space on it.

Take away the noise and pedestrians are going to get clobbered. If i was a regulator i'd be thinking up ways to slow these vehicles down in urban areas. There is never any need to accelerate to 100km/hr in 3 seconds on a public road. At highway speeds fast acceleration help overtaking, but rapid acceleration increases the likelihood of suprise to other road users and therefore increases the risk of incident.
Right, so lets ban ICE Porsches and Ferraris and Lamborghinis because people might drive them irresponsibly, and they can definitely go faster than our Tesla. And while you're at it, Audi RS4s are pretty damn quick and able to be driven by lunatics as well. Its nothing to do with it being an EV......just fast cars in general. They can be driven responsibly in built up areas or dangerously, nothing to do with EV or not. The lack of noise is a plus for many people who are driven crazy by constant traffic noise on busy roads in cities. Imagine the peace and quiet at even 50% EVs. I imagine people who were used to Horse+carts 100 years ago were thinking all the new fangled petrol engined cars were going to kill pedestrians too, because you know, they were much faster than the current technology
 

Snow Blowey

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Right, so lets ban ICE Porsches and Ferraris and Lamborghinis because people might drive them irresponsibly, and they can definitely go faster than our Tesla. And while you're at it, Audi RS4s are pretty damn quick and able to be driven by lunatics as well. Its nothing to do with it being an EV......just fast cars in general. They can be driven responsibly in built up areas or dangerously, nothing to do with EV or not. The lack of noise is a plus for many people who are driven crazy by constant traffic noise on busy roads in cities. Imagine the peace and quiet at even 50% EVs. I imagine people who were used to Horse+carts 100 years ago were thinking all the new fangled petrol engined cars were going to kill pedestrians too, because you know, they were much faster than the current technology


Never said anything about banning them. I said its need management.

You are puting extreme acceleration in the hands of many more incompetent and entitled drivers than will have ever sat in an ICE supercar. Take away the noise and pedestrians will be skittled big time.
 
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Donza

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Never said anything about banning them. I said its need management.

You are puting extreme acceleration in the hands of many more incompetent and entitled drivers than will have ever sat in an ICE supercar. Take away the noise and pedestrians will be skittled big time.
I do roughly 40 to 50,000kms of driving a year.
Lots of that is in the sydney metro area. Say upwards of 700kms a week.
I have seen tonnes of Teslas in my time.
I can't honestly say i've seen them hooning around?
 

Xwing

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Influx of electric will not be as rapid as some may think. There is still the huge second hand vehicle market and with electric so expensive and the whole issue being the battery, it will be some time before we see electric vehicles in the yard at $9990.
 

Sir Surfalot

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I have seen tonnes of Teslas in my time.
I can't honestly say i've seen them hooning around?
To add what I hope is a credible data point to this (skirting around its likely off-topicness by doing a Jedi mind-trick wave), I was on the phone today to Shannons getting a quote for a Tesla Model 3 Long Range and I was surprised how relatively inexpensive it was.

Questioning the very nice chap from Shannons about this (but not too hard, obviously) he said their claims history with the car has been better than he would have expected, so the price reflects that and (from his memory) is quite a bit less now - with more data - than the premiums they were charging for Teslas (based on actuarial guesswork for similar on-paper performance vehicles) a couple of years ago.

Wasn't what I expected but here we are.
 
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Donza

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To add what I hope is a credible data point to this (skirting around its likely off-topicness by doing a Jedi mind-trick wave), I was on the phone today to Shannons getting a quote for a Tesla Model 3 Long Range and I was surprised how relatively inexpensive it was.

Questioning the very nice chap from Shannons about this (but not too hard, obviously) he said their claims history with the car has been better than he would have expected, so the price reflects that and (from his memory) is quite a bit less now - with more data - than the premiums they were charging for Teslas (based on actuarial guesswork for similar on-paper performance vehicles) a couple of years ago.

Wasn't what I expected but here we are.
Let me insure the WRX.............
 

Ultra2.0

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You are puting extreme acceleration in the hands of many more incompetent and entitled drivers than will have ever sat in an ICE supercar. Take away the noise and pedestrians will be skittled big time.
How are the pedestrian's killed by silent Ev numbers in Norway? where almost half off al their cars are EV? above about 15 kph, they all sound the same, tyre noise doesn't change due to fuel type. and even though i can hit 100kph in 3.2 seconds, how often do I do it? well, apart from the M4 drag race every day, rarely. occasionally give it a poke to get into a gap in traffic, or when at lights and a lane ends ahead, but even then, you rarely need full throttle. just enough to get ahead.. tyres arnt cheap. overtaking is a different story. minimum time on the opposite side of the road is a good thing.

Tesla could even start some sort of guide with a star rating system for the various charging locations. The additional exposure generated by the guide may encourage people to open restaraunts to service these travellers which could then be included in the star ranting system.
an app called Plugshare, does exactly this. available on a website as well.


but having to rely on what is just two parking bays in Jindabyne shops is a bit of a tough ask in winter peak season..
this will have to change when numbers on the road get higher, now the Model 3 is here for this winter, (covid outstanding) then sadly, I'm sure the Jindy chargers will be full with Model 3's a lot. but with Cooma having a lot chargers and superchargers already, i won't need to use the Jindy site.

The new Chargefox 350Kw chargers are there now, behind the Snowy Hydro centre, and the 3 tops out at about 195Kw. my record is 196, the record so far is 199. still waiting on someone to hit the 200Kw mark. also cheaper than Tesla supercharger rates.. unless referral code credits, or free for life earlier models.


and plug the granny charger in next to my van overnight to charge at whatever ridiculously low rate wouldn’t pop the circuit breaker
I noticed this staying in a few van parks, if we hire a powered campsite, no issue, 15 amp, gets a decent charge overnight, but we set up a tent, thats all the power we use, other times, we have stayed in a cabin, and plug it in set to 15 amp, and pop. darkness. so have to limit charge rate to about 8 amps so we can still use air-con and tv in the cabin/van..
Questioning the very nice chap from Shannons about this (but not too hard, obviously) he said their claims history with the car has been better than he would have expected, so the price reflects that and (from his memory) is quite a bit less now - with more data - than the premiums they were charging for Teslas (based on actuarial guesswork for similar on-paper performance vehicles) a couple of years ago.
Tesla has a bad habit of catching the rego details of anyone who causes damage while you're not around.. same with accidents, 8 cameras recording everything do that.. so, at-fault claims, or claims where no details of the causing party exist, are low. we are insured with GIO, 10 year new for old replacement, unlimited glass and hire car. not the cheapest at the time, but we want those features. Teslas are expensive to fix, and take a long time.

so im expecting a few tesla cam videos of Jerry's hitting cars with skis in carparks.
 

Ultra2.0

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Influx of electric will not be as rapid as some may think. There is still the huge second hand vehicle market and with electric so expensive and the whole issue being the battery, it will be some time before we see electric vehicles in the yard at $9990.
dont touch anything 2013 model or older. re battery degradation.. Nissan LEAF cars for sale in Australia - carsales.com.au

I paid just $9000 for our first EV, 3 years ago.. it has just 90Km range, does everything we need with ease.
if i sold it now, probably make a decent profit. 2010 Mitsubishi i-MiEV GA Auto MY10-SSE-AD-7015802 - carsales.com.au

The resale value is staying high.. no demand apparently.
 
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sly_karma

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I scare a pedestrian in a carpark every month or so. At carpark speeds there is no road noise and people wander aimlessly.
Amazing how people rage at aimless pedestrians when they're driving around large car parks, and then as soon as they leave their car they exhibit the exact same clueless walking behaviour.
 

skinavy

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dont touch anything 2013 model or older. re battery degradation.. Nissan LEAF cars for sale in Australia - carsales.com.au

I paid just $9000 for our first EV, 3 years ago.. it has just 90Km range, does everything we need with ease.
if i sold it now, probably make a decent profit. 2010 Mitsubishi i-MiEV GA Auto MY10-SSE-AD-7015802 - carsales.com.au

The resale value is staying high.. no demand apparently.
Saw a story about "The Good Car Co" coming to Canberra. Currently they're in Tasmania. Their deal is they import secondhand EV (Leaf, etc) and then recondition and sell on at a budget price.
 

Artisan

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I scare a pedestrian in a carpark every month or so. At carpark speeds there is no road noise and people wander aimlessly.

...wander aimlessly whilst listening to what-ever through their noise cancelling headsets.
I nearly collected a pedestrian in me old 6 wheel drive farm truck (A very large noisy machine) A blast from the air horn only got a slow response look-up !!!
I guess there are some who are just destined to get that Darwin Award..LOL




.
 

Artisan

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Self proclaimed most viewed.

The reference I got via https://wattsupwiththat.com/ were from this chap...

“…the world’s most viewed climate website”
– Fred Pearce The Climate Files:
The Battle for the Truth about Global Warming


The Amazon quote about the book The Climate Files: The Battle for the Truth About Global Warming gives this quote:

“...the fact is that just about everything the public heard and read about the University of East Anglia emails is wrong. They are not, as some have claimed, the smoking gun for a great global warming hoax, nor do they reveal a sinister conspiracy by scientists to fabricate global warming data...”

skinavy, please feel free to reference a ‘larger’ climate related web site..:)




;)
 

Legs Akimbo

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The reference I got via https://wattsupwiththat.com/ were from this chap...

“…the world’s most viewed climate website”
– Fred Pearce The Climate Files:
The Battle for the Truth about Global Warming


The Amazon quote about the book The Climate Files: The Battle for the Truth About Global Warming gives this quote:

“...the fact is that just about everything the public heard and read about the University of East Anglia emails is wrong. They are not, as some have claimed, the smoking gun for a great global warming hoax, nor do they reveal a sinister conspiracy by scientists to fabricate global warming data...”

skinavy, please feel free to reference a ‘larger’ climate related web site..:)




;)
I tried a little experiment many years ago. I spent some time actually following up the papers on which Watts based his articles. To no one's surprise (perhaps yours) he consistently misrepresented or selectively quoted from those papers. The man is a charlatan and a fraud, funded by the Heartland Institute (you should look them up too). What does your hero Taipan say - follow the money.
 

Artisan

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because you don't understand the reality behind the huge building of coal power stations in China. they were planned as a way to keep job during the 2009 financial crisis, most are only planned, and what has actually been built and working are barely reaching 40% capacity, and overall, as a percentage of Chinas power supply, Coal has been steadily falling and losing ground to ever cheaper renewable sources.
...

I’m still waiting to see where all this info came from Ultra2.0 ? Sounds like it is all made up..:nono:

Meanwhile...

- World coal shipping has gone up.
- Apart from in country, china is building coal power stations all over the world.
- QLD coal jobs increased by over 20% in the last twelve months.
- After banning imports for a while, china is now starting to off load Oz coal ships as they need it.

;)
 

Artisan

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I tried a little experiment many years ago. I spent some time actually following up the papers on which Watts based his articles. To no one's surprise (perhaps yours) he consistently misrepresented or selectively quoted from those papers. The man is a charlatan and a fraud, funded by the Heartland Institute (you should look them up too). What does your hero Taipan say - follow the money.

Hmmm, well I’d be interested to know where I might be being miss-led..:eek:

Legs akimbo, please do provide some references of these bad deeds..;)
 

Legs Akimbo

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Hmmm, well I’d be interested to know where I might be being miss-led..:eek:

Legs akimbo, please do provide some references of these bad deeds..;)
Do what I did. Read the papers.

As for Heartland, you should do what I suggested. Look them up. You might find this article https://www.theguardian.com/environ...rtland-institute-documents-climate-scepticism Or this one https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate And they were only the first 2 in a simple google search https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...i57j0i22i30.9191j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
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cold wombat

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The reference I got via https://wattsupwiththat.com/ were from this chap...

“…the world’s most viewed climate website”
– Fred Pearce The Climate Files:
The Battle for the Truth about Global Warming


The Amazon quote about the book The Climate Files: The Battle for the Truth About Global Warming gives this quote:

“...the fact is that just about everything the public heard and read about the University of East Anglia emails is wrong. They are not, as some have claimed, the smoking gun for a great global warming hoax, nor do they reveal a sinister conspiracy by scientists to fabricate global warming data...”

skinavy, please feel free to reference a ‘larger’ climate related web site..:)




;)
You would do well to critically examine your post in light of the logical fallacies material I pointed you to.
 
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skinavy

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The reference I got via https://wattsupwiththat.com/ were from this chap...

“…the world’s most viewed climate website”
– Fred Pearce The Climate Files:
The Battle for the Truth about Global Warming


The Amazon quote about the book The Climate Files: The Battle for the Truth About Global Warming gives this quote:

“...the fact is that just about everything the public heard and read about the University of East Anglia emails is wrong. They are not, as some have claimed, the smoking gun for a great global warming hoax, nor do they reveal a sinister conspiracy by scientists to fabricate global warming data...”

skinavy, please feel free to reference a ‘larger’ climate related web site..:)




;)
I don't need to reference a larger site. You made the original claim. You prove they are the most accessed climate change website. A quote from a book by a climate change sceptic is not evidence. A download of Google Analytics for the site could be considered evidence. By the way being widely accessed doesn't equal quality or value. Kim Kardashian has one of the highest followings on the internet, I doubt anyone of substance considers any of the Kardashians to be of value.

An extract of the book on Amazon is also of little value. 1, it has come from the author, not an independent reviewer. 2, the purpose of the extract on Amazon is to sell books.

Your level of critical analysis is about 0.
 

skinavy

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Meanwhile those well known lefty's at the Australian Strategic Policy Institue have been writing about the Chinese energy industry and its transition away from coal along with it being the world's largest user of renewables. Read the first article titled Planet A (actually read all of it as pretty interesting and I recommend subscribing if interested in defence and strategy issues)

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/t...=CampaignMonitor&utm_term=The threat spectrum
 

climberman

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Do what I did. Read the papers.

As for Heartland, you should do what I suggested. Look them up. You might find this article https://www.theguardian.com/environ...rtland-institute-documents-climate-scepticism Or this one https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate And they were only the first 2 in a simple google search https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...i57j0i22i30.9191j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Not in memes, can’t be read.
 

Snow Blowey

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Interesting comments about pedestrians getting in the way of cars in car parks. Most of these car parks will have signs stating that they are shared zones and have a 10km/hr speed limit (just a bit faster than walking speed). It means pedestrians have as much right to be there as cars and that if cars are following the speed limit they shouldn't really ever surprise pedestrians and vice versa. .
 

Legs Akimbo

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Interesting comments about pedestrians getting in the way of cars in car parks. Most of these car parks will have signs stating that they are shared zones and have a 10km/hr speed limit (just a bit faster than walking speed). It means pedestrians have as much right to be there as cars and that if cars are following the speed limit they shouldn't really ever surprise pedestrians and vice versa. .
Absolutely. But when you have followed a pedestrian for 30 metres down the middle of the road you begin to suspect that the silence of an electric motor may be the reason that they haven't noticed you. Which is the effing point.
 

Artisan

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Do what I did. Read the papers.

As for Heartland, you should do what I suggested. Look them up. You might find this article https://www.theguardian.com/environ...rtland-institute-documents-climate-scepticism Or this one https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate And they were only the first 2 in a simple google search https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...i57j0i22i30.9191j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Legs Akimbo, I had a look-see at the links you provided. I found this:

“...Heartland simply helped me find a donor for funding a special project having to do with presenting some new NOAA surface data in a public friendly graphical form, something NOAA themselves is not doing, but should be. I approached them in the fall of 2011 asking for help, on this project not the other way around...”

Ummm... Legs Akimbo... is that it? Is that the big ‘expose’ of the WUWT web site? Surely there must be something else?

.....or maybe not...:whistle:


;)
 

Artisan

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I don't need to reference a larger site. You made the original claim. You prove they are the most accessed climate change website. A quote from a book by a climate change sceptic is not evidence. A download of Google Analytics for the site could be considered evidence. By the way being widely accessed doesn't equal quality or value. Kim Kardashian has one of the highest followings on the internet, I doubt anyone of substance considers any of the Kardashians to be of value.

An extract of the book on Amazon is also of little value. 1, it has come from the author, not an independent reviewer. 2, the purpose of the extract on Amazon is to sell books.

Your level of critical analysis is about 0.

Yeah, skinavy, yer not comparing apples to apples. K.K. is a brainless bimbo, and her internet ‘subject’ is bimbo. A popular subject according to google..;)

On the other hand, climate is a ‘fringe’ subject to most people so to get any sort of numbers visiting a climate related website is something. Latest hits for WUWT: 439,124,204 hits

https://wattsupwiththat.com/



:cool:
 

Legs Akimbo

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Coastal suburban boonies.
Legs Akimbo, I had a look-see at the links you provided. I found this:

“...Heartland simply helped me find a donor for funding a special project having to do with presenting some new NOAA surface data in a public friendly graphical form, something NOAA themselves is not doing, but should be. I approached them in the fall of 2011 asking for help, on this project not the other way around...”

Ummm... Legs Akimbo... is that it? Is that the big ‘expose’ of the WUWT web site? Surely there must be something else?

.....or maybe not...:whistle:


;)
You are a serious fuckwit.
 

Artisan

Hard Yards
Dec 8, 2020
487
213
63
North West of Brisbane
Meanwhile those well known lefty's at the Australian Strategic Policy Institue have been writing about the Chinese energy industry and its transition away from coal along with it being the world's largest user of renewables. Read the first article titled Planet A (actually read all of it as pretty interesting and I recommend subscribing if interested in defence and strategy issues)

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-threat-spectrum-9/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily The Strategist&utm_content=Daily The Strategist+CID_8d46c95992ff68534d884df339ced75f&utm_source=CampaignMonitor&utm_term=The threat spectrum

There’s what china says. And then, there’s what china does. skinavy, from your link:

“...But in the short term, the scheme won’t directly curb emissions by major producers, meaning China’s record-setting coal expansion in 2020 may continue in 2021...”

Yer caint blame china for running carbon trading markets. There’s a lot of money to be made from selling carbon indulgences to gullible westerners..LOL

And then there’s the solar panels and wind towers china sells to gullible westerners. china is not going to say anything to affect that market... just keep telling the shmucks what they want to hear.


;)
 
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