How will Oz resorts deal with mass move to Electric Vehicles later this decade ?

climberman

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There’s what china says. And then, there’s what china does. skinavy, from your link:

“...But in the short term, the scheme won’t directly curb emissions by major producers, meaning China’s record-setting coal expansion in 2020 may continue in 2021...”

Yer caint blame china for running carbon trading markets. There’s a lot of money to be made from selling carbon indulgences to gullible westerners..LOL

And then there’s the solar panels and wind towers china sells to gullible westerners. china is not going to say anything to affect that market... just keep telling the shmucks what they want to hear.


;)
You have zero idea of how their trading program works do you?

No-one here is saying China will be lower carbon or stopping coal use next year.
 
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Artisan

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You have zero idea of how their trading program works do you?

No-one here is saying China will be lower carbon or stopping coal use next year.

china has had some ‘trading’ schemes going for years. As far as I can see this latest version hasn’t been finalised yet.
So, no. I don’t know how it will ‘work’..;)
 

climberman

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It’s also currently not going to be an effective mechanism to reduce carbon emissions at present. It may shift production between plants.
 
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climberman

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But it’s a start & better than doing nothing?
fk knows. It’s China. At present it will be largely ineffectual in reducing emissions - I think it might be to encourage a bit more of the more efficient plants to run.

If the trade price is increased it may impact overall emissions and most places have started with a cost floor largely deemed ‘ineffectual’ and its if the costs increase they can add value.

Chinas capacity to reduce emissions is probably not through market mechanisms directly, policy will be the big one.

Edited to clean up the typos and shit.

They will not hit peak carbon until 2030 from all accounts.
 
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skinavy

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Yeah, skinavy, yer not comparing apples to apples. K.K. is a brainless bimbo, and her internet ‘subject’ is bimbo. A popular subject according to google..;)

On the other hand, climate is a ‘fringe’ subject to most people so to get any sort of numbers visiting a climate related website is something. Latest hits for WUWT: 439,124,204 hits

https://wattsupwiththat.com/



:cool:
Like I said self professed. The number your using is off the website. Have you reviewed the code for where that number comes from? That is easy to fake. Got an independent source of evidence?

Did you also miss the bit about China also being one of the world's biggest uses of renewables.
 
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Artisan

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Seems some just want to believe the CCP, though at least the Australian government don’t...;)

Meanwhile, looking at the costs of them electric car fuel bowsers that some want the Oz taxpayer to fund...

$40,800.00 ChargePoint Express 250 is engineered to fast charge current and next-generation electric cars, buses and trucks. Each station is equipped with two Power Modules that deliver up to 62.5 kW to a vehicle. The station supports legacy and future battery packs from 200V to 1,000V...

https://smartchargeamerica.com/electric-car-chargers/commercial/chargepoint-express-250/
 

Artisan

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Like I said self professed. The number your using is off the website. Have you reviewed the code for where that number comes from? That is easy to fake. Got an independent source of evidence?

Did you also miss the bit about China also being one of the world's biggest uses of renewables.

Via WUWT “...Stats from Alexa.com...”

...and, yeah. China got some big dams..;)
 

skinavy

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Via WUWT “...Stats from Alexa.com...”

...and, yeah. China got some big dams..;)
Given a significant chunk of traffic comes from India, that suggests a lot of bought engagement (ie bots, not real people). Also has dropped by over 12k in internet rankings. So obviously not that many people see value in it.
 

D-eye

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Just for shits and giggles I pumped in my route.
I'd need a 10 min charge at Majura park.
Next to Maccas.
If only it was the IKEA carpark...

Good news, the Ikea car park across the road now has chargers (in prime position). Not sure on the capacity, but even if it was slower that just gives you more time to spend money inside on meatballs, new furniture and other crap you don't need ;)
 

sly_karma

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Dunno about claims of tyre noise making EVs similar to ICE once over urban speed limit. There's usually an EV or two racing at an automotive hillclimb that I time (have seen one make podium) and they are exceptionally quiet compared to the gassers. All that is to be heard is tyre noise, some air movement swoosh and the occasional clunk or scrub when bodywork grounds or rattles. Certainly the ICE cars are race tuned and often have aftermarket exhaust systems that are loud - although limited by council order and enforced by in-race dB testing. But the EV race cars are eerily quiet.
 

rowdyflat

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Ignore makes it a little hard to follow but a massive improvement.
Yep another trouble maker leading others astray off subject to abuse and wreck a thread and saying stuff they wouldnt face to face..
Mind you the thread subject was stupid to start with as it had nothing to do with ski areas and should have been amalgamated with the car futures one.IMO so >>> ignore Artisan.
Mods please take note.
 

skinavy

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Yep another trouble maker leading others astray off subject to abuse and wreck a thread and saying stuff they wouldnt face to face..
Mind you the thread subject was stupid to start with as it had nothing to do with ski areas and should have been amalgamated with the car futures one.IMO so >>> ignore Artisan.
Mods please take note.
Ski area infrastructure and changes in the wider country driving it makes for a valid topic. Pointless dives down other areas and whataboutism is what derailed this (and many other threads)
 

Snow Blowey

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I think that the original question was answered early in the thread. That was, that the resorts do not have to deal with vehicle charging. Its not their problem. There is currently more demand for these places than they can handle. Whether they provide vehicle charging facilities or not is not really going to affect patronage.

Now keep fighting you bastards.
 

skinavy

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Agree with that but its about the infrastructure at Jindabyne , Mansfield , Bright etc as charging in cold ski areas is a bad idea.
Well the OT is "how will Oz resorts deal..." Could argue that if having in resort is no good, that it would be in their interests to support/develop charging in the feeder towns. Need to remember plenty of EV get sold in markets with far colder weather than Australia. Those markets seem to deal with it.

Bear in mind the NSW experience is somewhat different to Vic. Exceptionally limited overnight parking in Perisher (some at Smiggins, but not a lot) so either Sawpit or Bullocks (both of which are not as cold) Thredbo has a mix of parking at accommodation and overnight carpark, along with already having one charging location. But again the weather tends to be better down there. Can't drive to CP so using Perisher's facilities and no overnight at Selwyn (along with no fuel so having enough energy to get there and back regardless of source is always the question)
I can see Vic being more challenging (particularly Hotham)
 

skinavy

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I think that the original question was answered early in the thread. That was, that the resorts do not have to deal with vehicle charging. Its not their problem. There is currently more demand for these places than they can handle. Whether they provide vehicle charging facilities or not is not really going to affect patronage.

Now keep fighting you bastards.
True, right now they don't need to worry. Give it 10 years and the equation maybe different. 10 years ago EV were a novelty. Now, while not mainstream, they are noticeable in terms of numbers. I can see (and so can VW, Volvo, Ford, Toyota, etc.) that EV/PHEV will be the majority of sales within a decade. With that will be market forces to provide facilities (similar to when the ICE vehicles displaced horses ending the need for stables and introducing service stations and mechanics)
 

skifree

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I can see Vic being more challenging (particularly Hotham

It’s at the top of a hill, perfect for a set of wind turbines to help feed car charging set up in the endless common resort managed car parks. Hard to be easier if you tried to design car charging in from the start.
 
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Ultra2.0

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It’s at the top of a hill, perfect for a set of wind turbines to help feed car charging set up in the endless common resort managed car parks. Hard to be easier if you tried to design car charging in from the start.
from Smiggins to Jindabyne costs zero energy. overall.
 
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CarveMan

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I think that the original question was answered early in the thread
It’s pretty simple, many EVs are now in the ballpark of ICEs for range, and we don’t fill our cars with petrol at the resorts now (Thredbo and Hotham still have bowsers??) so apart from private accomm offering a value-add with on-site charging there’s no reason to charge EVs in the resort car parks. People can charge down in the valleys just as they fuel their ICEs.

And as they are responsible adults they will need to manage their range just as they do with petrol, and over time recharging locations will proliferate.

/thread
 

rowdyflat

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It’s at the top of a hill, perfect for a set of wind turbines to help feed car charging set up in the endless common resort managed car parks. Hard to be easier if you tried to design car charging in from the start.
Brilliant idea in theory but Hotham has clusterfark parking in at least 4 different areas and being a narrow ridge not much room for turbines which would need to be designed for very strong winds .
I wonder how they cope with wet sticky snow and rime ? could get unbalanced and inefficient?
Apparently in Nth sweden they de ice ie mainly heat the hollow inside of the blades
http://www.computationalrenewables.com/bahriuzunoglu/publications/Jon_Kasper.pdf
 

skinavy

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Brilliant idea in theory but Hotham has clusterfark parking in at least 4 different areas and being a narrow ridge not much room for turbines which would need to be designed for very strong winds .
I wonder how they cope with wet sticky snow and rime ? could get unbalanced and inefficient?
Apparently in Nth sweden they de ice ie mainly heat the hollow inside of the blades
http://www.computationalrenewables.com/bahriuzunoglu/publications/Jon_Kasper.pdf
Much the same as we do with helicopters when flying in icing conditions. Electric elements in the rotor blades.
 

skifree

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Brilliant idea in theory but Hotham has clusterfark parking in at least 4 different areas and being a narrow ridge not much room for turbines which would need to be designed for very strong winds .
I wonder how they cope with wet sticky snow and rime ? could get unbalanced and inefficient?
Apparently in Nth sweden they de ice ie mainly heat the hollow inside of the blades
http://www.computationalrenewables.com/bahriuzunoglu/publications/Jon_Kasper.pdf[/QUOTE

I don’t see any issues that are not too hard to resolve with the plan. And as you have noted turbines are running elsewhere in cold icy environments.
 

robbo mcs

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Brilliant idea in theory but Hotham has clusterfark parking in at least 4 different areas and being a narrow ridge not much room for turbines which would need to be designed for very strong winds .
I wonder how they cope with wet sticky snow and rime ? could get unbalanced and inefficient?
Apparently in Nth sweden they de ice ie mainly heat the hollow inside of the blades
http://www.computationalrenewables.com/bahriuzunoglu/publications/Jon_Kasper.pdf

I think in the alpine areas the wind would be too unpredictable, both in strength and direction. The turbines work best in areas that deliver pretty consistent conditions. The turbines are designed to run optimally in certain conditions, ie a range of wind speeds. The blades are designed around that. Some are "fixed pitch", blades can't angle, usually smaller ones. Larger ones have variable pitch blades to regulate speed, to optimise output. However, there is still a limit to how low or high the wind can get, before they have to be "turned off", ie rotated out of the wind and blades angled / feathered
 

skifree

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I think in the alpine areas the wind would be too unpredictable, both in strength and direction. The turbines work best in areas that deliver pretty consistent conditions. The turbines are designed to run optimally in certain conditions, ie a range of wind speeds. The blades are designed around that. Some are "fixed pitch", blades can't angle, usually smaller ones. Larger ones have variable pitch blades to regulate speed, to optimise output. However, there is still a limit to how low or high the wind can get, before they have to be "turned off", ie rotated out of the wind and blades angled / feathered
20km/hour over 24hrs 365 days is good.
 

DidSurfNowSki

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The first EV I saw up in the snow was with @Kletterer when we were heading across to Gerlos. It looked really odd, like someone had left the bowser in and it got covered in snow. Took us a while to figure out what it was.
 
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bengarden

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Never said anything about banning them. I said its need management.

You are puting extreme acceleration in the hands of many more incompetent and entitled drivers than will have ever sat in an ICE supercar. Take away the noise and pedestrians will be skittled big time.
On the flip side, there are always on safety features such as Collision Avoidance Assist which will automatically brake for a pedestrian or other car that make the car safer than just a human driver in control. I regularly have my acceleration reduced instantly and a loud warning sound if I try and accelerate too hard when there's another object I could collide with. Other thing thats good about instant acceleration is saving yourself from another vehicle inadvertently wandering into your lane and being able to jump out of the way almost instantly. I've seen quite a few videos that saved a Tesla from a semi almost cleaning them up. Not saying there's no issues with faster cars but the new semi autonomous safety features also make the car much safer than just a human driver.
 

robbo mcs

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On the flip side, there are always on safety features such as Collision Avoidance Assist which will automatically brake for a pedestrian or other car that make the car safer than just a human driver in control. I regularly have my acceleration reduced instantly and a loud warning sound if I try and accelerate too hard when there's another object I could collide with. Other thing thats good about instant acceleration is saving yourself from another vehicle inadvertently wandering into your lane and being able to jump out of the way almost instantly. I've seen quite a few videos that saved a Tesla from a semi almost cleaning them up. Not saying there's no issues with faster cars but the new semi autonomous safety features also make the car much safer than just a human driver.

True, but a lot of ICE cars now have exactly the same safety features. Both of my cars would happily drive me from Sydney to Canberra, once I had gotten them onto the freeway, apart from beeping madly all the time to tell me to put my hands back on the steering wheel:rolleyes: Steer, accelerate, brake, stop, start, avoid other cars etc. That safety tech will be in every car sold within a couple of years. Fully autonomous driving is some time away I think.

It is part of the reason insurance premiums are so low, because it actually does prevent a lot of accidents, especially low speed rear enders. Premiums are dropping in all cars that have this tech.

With regards to the noise of electric cars, I ride a bike, and have never had a problem hearing them coming up behind me. Once you get above walking pace, most of the noise you hear is tyre noise, rather than engine noise, and EV's sound just the same
 

DidSurfNowSki

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True, but a lot of ICE cars now have exactly the same safety features. Both of my cars would happily drive me from Sydney to Canberra, once I had gotten them onto the freeway, apart from beeping madly all the time to tell me to put my hands back on the steering wheel:rolleyes: Steer, accelerate, brake, stop, start, avoid other cars etc. That safety tech will be in every car sold within a couple of years. Fully autonomous driving is some time away I think.

It is part of the reason insurance premiums are so low, because it actually does prevent a lot of accidents, especially low speed rear enders. Premiums are dropping in all cars that have this tech.

With regards to the noise of electric cars, I ride a bike, and have never had a problem hearing them coming up behind me. Once you get above walking pace, most of the noise you hear is tyre noise, rather than engine noise, and EV's sound just the same
*unless sti
 
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robbo mcs

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Saw this pic on a bike Fb group I look at. Tesla charge station, done up like a vintage bowser. Looks great:D


9C1E347F-9FF8-4994-8E8D-ED0833F4FD81.jpeg
 
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