How will Oz resorts deal with mass move to Electric Vehicles later this decade ?

snow drive solutions

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...and heated steering wheel with any luck.

Got the fast charger installed this morning (32A 3 phase), so we are a two-charger family now, just hoping I get a car to plug into the new charger sooner rather than later. I have to relinquish my Subaru XV to one of my sons who needs it for his uni course industrial year and there will be a fight otherwise each weekday morning over whether I get to go surfing or he goes to work (since my wife wisely doesn’t let my surfboards, wax, wet surfing gear and assorted crap into her nice car).

Back to the snow ability of the Model 3, while I can see from the power read ours that the front motor “kicks in” under acceleration I don’t think it is sensible from the safety standpoint for the car programmed the way it is now to be exempt from the NSW chain laws as an AWD mainly because _zero_ of the Model 3s here would have winter tyres on them as Bjorn has in his tests in Norway and with summer tyres (I am guessing Tesla don’t ship with an all-season tyre as standard in Australia) and that drive programming it would be diabolical in the snow. I already have a set of chains for mine ($180 or so direct from Tesla if anyone is interested) but I think I will be driving my wife’s Cayenne PHEV or borrowing my XV back from my son rather than taking the Tesla up in winter - for all the many reasons in this thread...

Snowtyres.com.au has supplied many sets of Nokian winter tyres for Tesla vehicles since 2017

For Tesla 3 Nokian winter tyres are available in these sizes, 235/45 R18, 235/40 R19 and 235/35 R20

Refer:- https://www.nokiantyres.com/tyres/electric-cars/
 
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climberman

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Isn't the fuel excise a hypothecated tax that ostensibly pays for road maintenance? if so, to ensure equity, all vehicles should have to pay.
Absolutely not hypothecated at all since the 50’s (barring two years in the 80’s).

it’s general revenue, a tax raised because it can be and is largely inelastic.
 
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rowdyflat

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Isn't the fuel excise a hypothecated tax that ostensibly pays for road maintenance? if so, to ensure equity, all vehicles should have to pay.
Yes if all vehicles had equal impact on the road and the environment.

The Relationship between Vehicle Weight, Road Damage ...
https://www.denenapoints.com › relationship-vehicle-w...



How does vehicle weight affect road wear?
An off-quoted federal study once found that road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to the impact of 9,600 cars. ...

I think you will find that trucks rego is about 15-20 x a car .
So it is a bit illogical { False dichotomy fallacy or false equivalence } to point blank support a stupid tax without these considerations of air quality and road wear ?
 

nezumi

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Yes if all vehicles had equal impact on the road and the environment.

The Relationship between Vehicle Weight, Road Damage ...
https://www.denenapoints.com › relationship-vehicle-w...



How does vehicle weight affect road wear?
An off-quoted federal study once found that road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to the impact of 9,600 cars. ...

I think you will find that trucks rego is about 15-20 x a car .
So it is a bit illogical { False dichotomy fallacy or false equivalence } to point blank support a stupid tax without these considerations of air quality and road wear ?

This also feeds into the dual arguments of "I pay rego for my use of the road" and "bicycles should be registered!"

If registration *actually* funded the cost of road repair and development, then the amount payable by cyclists would be so miniscule as to be cost prohibitive to collect - and the direct cost to all motorists would be far higher.
 

Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

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Yes if all vehicles had equal impact on the road and the environment.

The Relationship between Vehicle Weight, Road Damage ...
https://www.denenapoints.com › relationship-vehicle-w...



How does vehicle weight affect road wear?
An off-quoted federal study once found that road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to the impact of 9,600 cars. ...

I think you will find that trucks rego is about 15-20 x a car .
So it is a bit illogical { False dichotomy fallacy or false equivalence } to point blank support a stupid tax without these considerations of air quality and road wear ?
useful link
I was going to mount an argument based on the kerb weight of my car v that of a semi, but this does it for me
 

Tanuki

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Yes if all vehicles had equal impact on the road and the environment.

The Relationship between Vehicle Weight, Road Damage ...
https://www.denenapoints.com › relationship-vehicle-w...



How does vehicle weight affect road wear?
An off-quoted federal study once found that road damage from one 18-wheeler is equivalent to the impact of 9,600 cars. ...

I think you will find that trucks rego is about 15-20 x a car .
So it is a bit illogical { False dichotomy fallacy or false equivalence } to point blank support a stupid tax without these considerations of air quality and road wear ?
Who said I supported it? I just asked a question. The man doth protest too much ;)
 

Tanuki

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This also feeds into the dual arguments of "I pay rego for my use of the road" and "bicycles should be registered!"

If registration *actually* funded the cost of road repair and development, then the amount payable by cyclists would be so miniscule as to be cost prohibitive to collect - and the direct cost to all motorists would be far higher.

Fuel excise is a federal tax that goes to consolidated revenue. It isn't directly earmarked for road construction or maintenance.

While it is true that road users should pay fairly for the road use, the fuel excise is far below either the actual or societal cost of motor vehicle use. In doing so, however, consideration needs to be given to rural and regional residents so that they aren't hit with higher costs due to an inherent need to drive further.

Applying an additional cost onto EVs, however, isn't the best approach right now. If necessary you could look at phasing in a new tax as the percentage of EVs in the vehicles owned meets specific thresholds.
depends on the policy objective
the issue is about a state govt charge
the article mentions other considerations re who’s being subsidised
Questioned answered. Tanx team.
 

rowdyflat

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Vic Labor has just killed the weekend for PHEV owners...

Really the Vic gov has just snuck through a distance-based road tax, which will apply to everyone eventually. They snuck it in on <1% of road users now to avoid levying it on the masses later and committing political suicide.
Not sure how they will enforce it ? based on the kilometres that the driver declares ?
 

rowdyflat

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“It’s not fair that a tradie driving a ute is paying to maintain our roads, but someone driving a Tesla is not.”
Classic class warfare from govt spokeswoman.
And classic false equivalence fallacy = the tradie will get a tax deduction for driving between work costs .
I would like to know how they will enforce this tax and avoid a black economy" in wind back the clock " ??.
 
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cold wombat

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There are no inspections in WA ever. Unless your car goes more than 3 months out of rego, in which case it gets the full inspection.
 

Hermannator

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Not sure how they will enforce it ? based on the kilometres that the driver declares ?
I have seen the draft legislation, which I'm guessing didn't change much - you will be required to submit a photo of your odometer to Vicroads on Jul 1 (and each July) should you be the owner of a PHEV/EV.

Should be pretty easy to disconnect the speedo LOLLOLLOL
 
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climberman

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I have seen the draft legislation, which I'm guessing didn't change much - you will be required to submit a photo of your odometer to Vicroads on Jul 1 (and each July) should you be the owner of a PHEV/EV.

Should be pretty easy to disconnect the speedo LOLLOLLOL
What happens if you rack up kms in other States?
 

Fozzie Bear

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I have seen the draft legislation, which I'm guessing didn't change much - you will be required to submit a photo of your odometer to Vicroads on Jul 1 (and each July) should you be the owner of a PHEV/EV.

Should be pretty easy to disconnect the speedo LOLLOLLOL

Or Tesla will just offer an odometer hack as a software update.
 
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skifree

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The Gov will have all the real time data they do & don’t need from your EV if they want direct from the Manufacturer who is collecting it for their own reasons.
 

Astro66

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Most modern cars connect to wifi or bluetooth to your phone. Your odometer would be read. Odometers are now tied into the car computer system. Tampering would be easily traced and, in case of an accident, your insurance voided, as tampering would void registration.

If you choose to prevent your wifi or bluetooth connecting, or don't have it. A system of getting your odometer read, at the owners cost, would be implemented. This would incentivize automation of meter reading.

In NSW, it would be no different to new passenger cars not requiring the expense of an inspection.

IMO, incentivizing less use of motor vehicles, would be a good thing. EV use, the better exception. But in Urban Environments, owner operated passenger vehicles, are not the future.

Countries all over the world are penalizing ICE use. There is a cost to their use and inefficiency to everyone. As an owner of an ICE vehicle, I accept that as time goes on, I will have to pay extra to use it. That is the current worldwide trend.

That said. I have already implemented strategies to slash the use of my ICE vehicle. The writing of their demise, is on the wall. In the meantime. You must accept, you will pay a premium to use them.
 
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Hermannator

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Countries all over the world are penalizing ICE use. There is a cost to their use and inefficiency to everyone. As an owner of an ICE vehicle, I accept that as time goes on, I will have to pay extra to use it. That is the current worldwide trend.
How - can you elaborate? As an example at the other end of the spectrum, in Norway the EV model of a given popular car (e.g. VW golf) is on par, if not cheaper than the ICE equivalent. And the EV gets free parking, toll waivers etc
 
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Astro66

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So no chance of a black market hack that couldnt be traced ?
Everything in the digital world leaves a trace. It just depends on how good the hacker is to hide it.

I'm sure the insurance companies will employ a blacker hat hacker, to find any tampering. It would save them millions in claims they can reject. It would save you a couple of hundred dollars. I know who will spend more money.
 

Astro66

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How - can you elaborate? As an example at the other end of the spectrum, in Norway the EV model of a given popular car (e.g. VW golf) is on par, if not cheaper than the ICE equivalent. And the EV gets free parking, toll waivers etc
Not sure what "How" means. But I'm not going to start a whole Pollution/Planet killing debate about ICE. Other than to say, ICE has lasting effects that cause financial repercussions. Those repercussions need to be factored into taxing.

Let me say this. If everyone within 10km of your home had EV's. And the bloke next door wanted to run an ICE vehicle. He would be asked to pay for the pollution he is introducing. The air around you would be completely free of the deadly gases produced by an ICE. So surely anyone wanting to introduce those deadly gases into the Environment, should pay a pollution tax.

With countries like Norway, where EV's are so prevalent. That's the deal. You want to pollute your community. You pay. It's pretty simple.
 
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Hermannator

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Not sure what "How" means. But I'm not going to start a whole Pollution/Planet killing debate about ICE. Other than to say, ICE has lasting effects that cause financial repercussions. Those repercussions need to be factored into taxing.

Let me say this. If everyone within 10km of your home had EV's. And the bloke next door wanted to run an ICE vehicle. He would be asked to pay for the pollution he is introducing. The air around you would be completely free of the deadly gases produced by an ICE. So surely anyone wanting to introduce those deadly gases into the Environment, should pay a pollution tax.

With countries like Norway, where EV's are so prevalent. That's the deal. You want to pollute your community. You pay. It's pretty simple.
Sorry - we are actually on the same page... I read your note as "penalising EV use" (not "penalising ICE use") for some reason... The Vic gov is penalising EV use - I have that burnt onto my brain it seems...
 

D-eye

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Let me say this. If everyone within 10km of your home had EV's. And the bloke next door wanted to run an ICE vehicle. He would be asked to pay for the pollution he is introducing. The air around you would be completely free of the deadly gases produced by an ICE. So surely anyone wanting to introduce those deadly gases into the Environment, should pay a pollution tax.

Probably ruined by wood fire heating :puke:
 
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sly_karma

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"Putting a price on carbon" is a federal govt catchcry in Canada. BC has had a provincial carbon tax for a dozen years,(introduced by a conservative-leaning govt, if you can believe that), and the feds mandated all provinces to come up with their own or one would be federally imposed on them. The BC tax has had several increases (scheduled in the legislation), but it has been the first or second leading economy in the country through those years in terms of GDP and job growth. Predictably, the oil-dependent provinces of Sask and Alberta both opposed the federal law and went on to court challenges which were (equally predictably) unsuccessful. Ontario joined in because they have the largest population and their populist premier knows that opposing any kind of increase in gas prices will find favour with voters. But it's largely settled and the tax is here, also with scheduled increases over time.

Really I think the price on carbon is the simplest and most transparent. Cap and trade is way too open to dodges and scams, and closing loopholes and enforcing would necessitate the formation of a substantial bureaucracy in its own right. Canada has yet to make a serious dent in its emissions, but the ground work being laid now on highly efficient homes and the switch to electric vehicles will start paying off by the end of this decade. BC is already starting to indicate changes are imminent on the renovation front, with any building envelope changes being required to meet current energy codes. New home plan is already well under way, with most local govts already mandating step 3 on the 5 step road to Net Zero capable by 2032.
 

Ricardo64

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Inductive charging pads in the car park :rolleyes:

Electric_car_wireless_parking_charge.jpg

By NJo - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=17581690
Australian resorts are over priced as they are, this would give another reason to hike up prices for poor quality snow in global comparison.
 

Mogul

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Not sure what "How" means. But I'm not going to start a whole Pollution/Planet killing debate about ICE. Other than to say, ICE has lasting effects that cause financial repercussions. Those repercussions need to be factored into taxing.

Let me say this. If everyone within 10km of your home had EV's. And the bloke next door wanted to run an ICE vehicle. He would be asked to pay for the pollution he is introducing. The air around you would be completely free of the deadly gases produced by an ICE. So surely anyone wanting to introduce those deadly gases into the Environment, should pay a pollution tax.

With countries like Norway, where EV's are so prevalent. That's the deal. You want to pollute your community. You pay. It's pretty simple.
EV's just pollute someone else's community. Power has to come from somewhere.
 

climberman

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"Putting a price on carbon" is a federal govt catchcry in Canada. BC has had a provincial carbon tax for a dozen years,(introduced by a conservative-leaning govt, if you can believe that), and the feds mandated all provinces to come up with their own or one would be federally imposed on them. The BC tax has had several increases (scheduled in the legislation), but it has been the first or second leading economy in the country through those years in terms of GDP and job growth. Predictably, the oil-dependent provinces of Sask and Alberta both opposed the federal law and went on to court challenges which were (equally predictably) unsuccessful. Ontario joined in because they have the largest population and their populist premier knows that opposing any kind of increase in gas prices will find favour with voters. But it's largely settled and the tax is here, also with scheduled increases over time.

Really I think the price on carbon is the simplest and most transparent. Cap and trade is way too open to dodges and scams, and closing loopholes and enforcing would necessitate the formation of a substantial bureaucracy in its own right. Canada has yet to make a serious dent in its emissions, but the ground work being laid now on highly efficient homes and the switch to electric vehicles will start paying off by the end of this decade. BC is already starting to indicate changes are imminent on the renovation front, with any building envelope changes being required to meet current energy codes. New home plan is already well under way, with most local govts already mandating step 3 on the 5 step road to Net Zero capable by 2032.
Pricing carbon is the best way to get carbon polluters to reduce their pollution.
 
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