16 weekends this winter, not a road to speed on ever
Obviously not leaving at peak hour, sometimes it can take two hours in traffic from Manly to Campbelltown
[IDEA] Oberon, NSW Ski Field?
- Thread starter Infinity Dawn
- Start date
-
Join the conversation with a better online community
Obviously not leaving at peak hour, sometimes it can take two hours in traffic from Manly to CampbelltownIt would be more practicable to resurrect the ACT ski fields, such as Mt Franklin, which are significantly higher and receive more snow, than attempt anything in the Oberon area, especially given climate change. Mt Franklin is just under a five hour drive from the centre of Sydney.
Thats what im clearly thinking, bindo is the only way possible. Im working on a 3d modle now and hopefully aple to share soon!
I was also working on one in the corin forest but i figured there is no roads so would be to hard.
Used to do Pyrmont to Jindy in 4.5 hrs regularly. Just leave Sydney after 7.30pm. Would imagine its even faster now with the new bit around Canberra.
Although some people here say they can
Maybe it's possible. but you are still only at Jindy, not the snow, add another half hour to your trip. Then of course you are there at mid-night, so you will have to wait another 7 hours to still get onto the snow. That's 11.5 hours for you.
People tend to forget, Bindo or Mt.Tricket wont be big resorts, but would suit families, newbies, and those who just want a quick day trip. A family could leave Sydney at 7am in the morning. Be on the snow at 9.30am. Have a nice lunch. More snow fun. And travel back home in time for dinner. They will save big $$$ on big resort tickets, accommodation, meals, travel times, packing extra clothing, sleeping gear, toiletries, etc Day tickets could be as low as $30 a day ticket or $15 a session. Families could combine a snow and cave experience with Jenolan caves down the road, or go visit Kanangra Walls for some spectacular views.
I was up on Mount Bindo yesterday for the sunset. I took these snaps with my poor quality phone camera but they turned out OK. I added them to wikipedia too. The temperature was a beautiful 20 degrees with a cool breeze, a welcome relief from heat down in Sydney.
All photos sourced from wikipedia Author: Alastairjsim. December, 2016.
I take it the fire lookout tower is no longer manned? Nowadays I think most jurisdictions use IR mapping and lightning strike tracking with aerial followup if needed. The US Forest Service has converted a fair few of its towers into accommodations for rent. Definitely rooms with a view. BC had no vision, just bulldozed or burned many of its towers.
It looks rather unused and not in the best state of repair but I think it is still functional. The stairs have a steel panel blocking anyone trying to get up and there is also a padlocked manhole at the top preventing access to the tower platform itself. I was hoping that it might be possible to get up there because the view would be magnificent but unfortunately it's all locked up.
The radio antenna thing next to the tower is also surrounded by a barbed wire fence. Does anyone know what this antenna is used for?
I was up in Hampton State Forest last week. I took a few photos of the Thill Ridge Campground at the corner of the Tea Tree Ridge Road and Bindo Boundary Road as well as some photos of Mount Bindo itself. Look closely and you can see the fire tower on the summit. The photos were taken at approx. 1240m ASL.
The campground, looking back towards the Blue Mountains
More of the campground, Mt Bindo in the background.
Mt Bindo at dusk. You can see the fire tower on the summit.
I was up in Hampton State Forest last week. I took a few photos of the Thill Ridge Campground at the corner of the Tea Tree Ridge Road and Bindo Boundary Road as well as some photos of Mount Bindo itself. Look closely and you can see the fire tower on the summit. The photos were taken at approx. 1240m ASL.
The campground, looking back towards the Blue Mountains
More of the campground, Mt Bindo in the background.
Mt Bindo at dusk. You can see the fire tower on the summit.
Glad this popped back up! Would be nice to haveIt's a really nice part of the world up there. It's so quiet and there is always a fresh, cool breeze, even in the warmer months. It always feels like I have the place to myself when I'm up there. It would be great if the Bureau of Meteorology put an automatic weather station (AWS) on summit of Mt Bindo so we could get some regular accurate temperatures up there. Similar to what the BOM has on Mt Ginini.Love this thread. I think there's merit in it, but not as a ski resort the likes of Corin. If Corin is successful, maybe. but best to see how that plays out.
I think there would be more merit in marketing something as a hybrid dry slope / winter slope. ie when theres actually snow (for 1 or 2 days per year), bonus, but the rest of the time its set up like a dry slope, which are huge all over the Europe and the US.
You may as well do the dry slope in to Sydney to catch after work people and evening customers in that case.
After reading this and have a keen interest in the industry along with having had a lot to do with Corin it is very viable. With PnL projections, visitation and a business plan on hand it can be done.
Having helped and consulted to set up Corin to it's current situation, if any one is interested I could share some information to look at getting something like this off the ground. I for one am keen and have already got information in Snow factory and a deal in place for snowmaking, groomers, hire equipment etc... Message me if you're keen
I thought I'd dig up some photos that I took last year during a bumper snowfall in the Oberon district west of the Blue Mountains in New South Wales. Snow fell over three consecutive days and nights, the snow started falling heavily late Friday night / early Saturday and continued well into Sunday.
Oberon town Saturday Friday 9th August later in the afternoon the sleet began:
click to expand
Photos taken at 10km east of Oberon along the Duckmaloi Road near Melaleuca Mountain Chalets - (altitude approx. 1150m ASL):
Friday 9th August 2019 windy snow squalls began:
Same spot the very next morning Saturday 10th August 2019:
Sunday 11th August 2019:
Oberon town Sunday 12th August 2019:
Attachments
Looking north west towards Mount Bindo:
click to expandI am a new user. Can I post in a thread this old?
Increasing snow fall in Australia would be my greatest dream and fantasy, and I would be willing to invest money in it (even if it were a tiny ROI). I would absolutely love for this to happen.
I have some ideas to make this happen:
1. What if we were to build a large area resort where a small portion of it was dedicated to skiing and the rest was dedicated to snow play? Let the snow play business subsidise the skiing. I'm not really into skiing, but I do love my snow play. This would offer a cheap place close to Sydney for snow play, and an introductory place to Sydney. Also, many people who want to to play in the snow would get an introduction to skiing by visiting this area. If you advertise it specifically as an inferior ski resort, you could get the budget crowd and snow play crowd
2. This could be a dog friendly resort, which could be a big selling point. You can't take your dog to Kosciuszko National Park, but you can bring your dog. I didn't own a dog when I went to New York City, but I knew I would get one once returning to Australia. I saw a dog play in the snow in Central Park and wanted that for my future dog. A few years later and I still haven't had the opportunity to take my dog to the snow. If we advertise this as a dog-friendly snow resort, that'd be great. Dogs don't have to be allowed everywhere in the area, and not on the slopes, but the snow play areas could definitely be open to dogs, provided they're not in the national park. We could perhaps even have several off leash areas in the snow.
3. New tunnel under the Blue Mountains- the state government wants to build a new road under the Blue Mountains, increasing road traffic to the area
4. Increase snow. We could offer skiing and snow related sports at schools. If we get people excited about snow fall and snow related sports (e.g. skiing, etc). We could also allow schools to offer skiing as a sport, and perhaps even have skiing carnivals (the way that schools have swimming and athletics carnivals)
5. Advertise it as an introduction to skiing, whereby people can learn basic skiing here before moving on to the big slopes like Perisher and Thredbo. Do it well enough, and you might even have Perisher and Thredbo investing in it to build a future customer base
6. Look into creating new snow. If NZ North Island could have snow in summer, with similar elevation and latitude, surely we could do something about it in winter
7. (This might be more of a pipe dream) but if somehow manage to have the Winter Olympics in Canberra and Perisher/Thredbo, this could be considered infrastructure to align with that
8. Dig holes to store water. This is used for snow making and perhaps fishing. Play your cards right, and you could get the government to SUPPORT this as an additional water source for Sydney, the Blue Mountains, the Southern Highlands and perhaps other parts of the state (also, it might contribute to lake effect snow? Not big enough?)
9. Dig holes and build mountains taller. Get the government to support this by burying garbage under the new mountains
10. This could be a four-seasons resort. In summer, we offer fresh water swimming (perhaps even with waterfall swimming), as well as a place to escape from the hot summer heat of Sydney. If we plant deciduous trees to make it an autumn paradise (perhaps even hire a botanist to breed new types of deciduous trees which would be beneficial to the local flora and fauna, and have unique deciduous trees which can't trees which can't be found elsewhere, which could, in and of themselves, be draw cards). Also, dogs could play in the autumn leaves here
11. Free land to investors- people who help invest in this investment will be given free swarths of land which they could develop and sell off
12. Local councils could be located far away from this area to not be affected by it, but close enough to get the benefits of flow on tourists. Or tourists could add this resort as a stop on a road trip. Play your cards right, and local councils (BM, Oberon, Bathurst, Orange, etc.) would all support this to support their tourist industries. Get the state to want to invest if it helps the state's winter tourism industry, and advertise it as an excellent stopping point on road trips
13. Host events here, especially in the off season- concerts, sports events, etc.
14. Access to railways- the Oberon-Tarana railway historical association wishes to restore that rail line. Work with them to get this resort to be supported from there. In addition, building a rail line here could allow for freight trains to bypass Sydney when travelling from west of the BM to south of of Goulburn, and run passenger trains (including to this resort) as an ancillary benefit. Also, the government is looking into restoring the Mudgee Line. Run the Mudgee line to Oberon, extend it to this resort, and Bob's your uncle
15. City buses- run city buses to this resort from Katoomba, Orange, Bathurst, Lithgow, etc. Incorporate this route into existing routes, or create new routes. See if we can incorporate it into the OPAL network
And a few other things I have forgotten about
I'd give almost anything for this to be the case. Let's do it!
Of course you can.
You could have just started your post with this. Not that it has stopped any of us before. We'd all love to see something like you've suggested. Various hairbrained schemes come up regularly. Unfortunately they're all doomed. It's a money thing. Bugger.
Anyway, welcome.
Lake Mountain ticks some of those boxes for melbourne people. Snow play is the main activity, with xc skiing too. It's only a couple of hours from Melbourne. In summer there is mountain biking.
No dogs though
I love my dog.Lake Mountain ticks some of those boxes for melbourne people. Snow play is the main activity, with xc skiing too. It's only a couple of hours from Melbourne. In summer there is mountain biking.
No dogs though
But after tromping through dog poop buried by snow in Aspen and being kept awake all night by a barking dog in the next door hotel room on the 3rd floor in Crested Butte I’d be wary of having dogs in ski areas
A lot of effort for your first post. A welcome also to the forum. Not knowing you it is hard to tell if you are serious or just having fun. I am going to go with the later. My first ever Jackaroo job was out past Oberon and it was winter when I arrived. Snowed every day for a week. Sometimes it was just sago hail. At the time I thought it had to be the coldest place on earth and I looked like the Michelin Man trying to keep warm and dry. The property was around 1100m altitude in parts and many steep hills. I recall looking down on a RAAF Hercules doing a tactical run through the valley. Another 800m altitude and it would be a great place for a ski resort. That is a lot of garbage to pile on it.
Anyway, procrastination is a wonderful thing and not constrained by anything other than your own imagination. Keep dreaming, just don't get serious with the idea and put money into it.
Thanks!Lake Mountain ticks some of those boxes for melbourne people. Snow play is the main activity, with xc skiing too. It's only a couple of hours from Melbourne. In summer there is mountain biking.
No dogs though
I am dead serious. Repeat, dead serious. To make this work is slightly colder and slighter wetter wind. After all, NZ's north island has similar elevation and similar latitude to our highest mountains, and they get comparatively decent snowfalls in summer. Further, places significantly further north in New England, NSW, have snowfall too, despite similar, if not slightly higher elevation. Therefore, I don't think that elevation is the issue, but rather, other factors ensuring that the wind is slightly too warm and slightly too dry. The good thing about that is that whilst the east side of the mountains is effected by the East Australia Current, the west side is affected by different winds which are colder. Not sure how to achieve slightly colder and slightly wetter winds, but nonetheless, if we could find a way to make it happen, why not? Keep in mind, skiing would only be a small part of what this proposal could have to offer. It could also increase snow play in other parts near the proposed resort. In summer, it could be a fresh water skiing haven, and in autumn, it deciduous playground with falling leaves. Perhaps we could even breed new species unique to the area. It could be a dog-friendly introductory to skiing place which would please the ski resorts who would have new skiers. People may be reluctant to visit the ski resorts if they've never tried skiing, having to worry about the national park entry fees, don't know if it's safe to do, or a whole bunch of other factors. If we could figure out how to make the wind slightly colder and slightly wetter, we could have multiple hills for skiing, and the areas surrounding them for snow play. It would be difficult, but if we could get enough people to encourage a infrastructure company to do that (I don't know how, promising to buy shares?) then it could work. Also, if we get other advocacy groups behind it, for unrelated reasons, then even more reason to sway investors (e.g. there is an advocacy group who wants to re-open the Oberon rail line, if we could encourage them that the rail line would extend to this precinct as a key to getting it re-operate. Also, freight rail operators might be interested in seeing the Oberon Rail Line extended to the Southern Highlands, as they could bypass the Sydney area, tell them that if such a project were to go ahead, it would be easier for freight trains to bypass Sydney. You could get the government on board by promising to invest in affordable housing close to Sydney and by helping the tourism industry. (Imagine people embracing NSW's winter, rather than trying to escape it). Or even other industries, such as manufacturing or farming (how would this specific proposal help either of those industries). I have studied tourism and events at university, and I have an interest in railways and a tiny interest in urban planning. And if we were to host events there, even better. If we could get enough advocacy, I believe that this may be possible to at least some extent. Incidentally, this forum is the best place to not only drum up advocacy, but also figure out the logistics. The forum members here are a lot better when it comes to the logistics of skiing and ski resorts, specifically, so I'd leave that up to you to determine, but I'd be willing to chime in on discussions of the logistics of the non-skiing elements. If we could figure out the barebone logistics and make enough people vouch for this idea, all we'd need is an investor (or multiple investors), and we're good to go. (obviously, we would need professionals to figure out the specifics of the logistics, but the barebone aspects of the logistics could be figured out by enough amateurs). Sago and hail could be a bit more difficult, but if you play your cards right, you could use them as unique drawing cards. After, there might be people who would willing to drive there just to see sago. The Northern Hemisphere has a significant snow industry, imagine Australia having a considerable sago industry. You'd have to make compromises, but I'm sure it could work
Outside of the ski resorts, NSW now is summer tourism destination. Contrast this with QLD, where the south of the state is a summer tourism destination and the north of the state is a winter tourism destination. If NSW had more of a snow industry, NSW would be more of a winter tourism destination, as one of the few places in the state with a significant winter tourism industry is the Snowy Mountains. I believe it could work if we figure out the barebone logistics and encourage investorsI'll take you at your word and play along for a bit.
TBH I am not sure I would want the charm of Oberon destroyed but put that aside for now. Mudgee can't get a rail link so how would Oberon? It is close to Bathurst and Lithgow were the western road links are already established so why would you divert transport that way? It is not positioned well to supply southern towns because the linking roads are windy and steep. Have you driven from Oberon to Goulburn? The road is sealed now but it used to carry a warning of 'not suitable for caravans'. The Hume is already established for this anyway. Governments will not develop the roads in an out of Oberon to carry transport away from the established major routes on a backroads detour. Five hours on a train (it is 4 from Sydney to Bathurst now) is not appealing for snow play.
Oberon is already a tourist destination for fishing, fossicking and 4wding. It has a deep pastoral connection and that is reflected in the business focus of the town as well as timber harvesting with many pine plantations nearby. Omeo in Vic is similar. It is only 40 minutes for ski resorts but did not develop like Bright because the key focus and business money was in farming.
You can't build a resort on public land now so you would have to buy suitable land and that will not be cheap. You can't rely on natural snow so all will have to be man made. NZ mountains are much higher and further south than you think. Historically, Oberon is not cold enough in winter to support regular snow making and unless you have some magical power there is no way you can make it colder. Snow making machines have improved but you will have to battle 12 degrees each day and loads of sunshine to keep the snow in order.
I have a vague recollection of someone making an indoor ski run in Western Sydney and I would be surprised if that is still operating. As for Sydney folk, those who want to ski go south. Those who want to play in snow wait for it to come to Katoomba and Blackheath. When there is a good snow event the two roads west will close.
To build it all would cost huge and that cost would have to be recouped so it would not be any cheaper than going south. People aren't scared of going to the snow. Average family groups do it every year and take the cheaper option of staying off mountain and driving further each day. I remember people travelling daily from Canberra to ski. That is before the freeway so Canberra was about 5 hours from Sydney. $29 for daily park entry is nothing compared to Vic resorts. I think you would have more luck convincing investors to front up money to a dodgy gold mine.
Now to the town itself. Have you spoken to the people there? Do you think they want to be a ski resort town? If you don't have the support of the local people you will be fighting all the way. Omeo used to have deciduous trees like Bright but the town pulled them all out because the leaves were considered a pain to clean up. Bright celebrates the leaves falling every year. Just two different types of locals.
So your idea for Oberon is about making NSW a better winter tourist destination? Do you have plans for the rest of the state? Here are some basic questions you need to have REAL answers to before any investor would take this plan seriously.
1. Do enough people want this?
2. Do the local people want this?
3. Can it be done without government assistance?
4. How much of your own money are you going to front up?
Anyway, have some fun with it but maybe you should join in on this thread. I don't think we need two of the same running. https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/new-ski-hill-near-oberon-nsw.17665/
Your geography is lacking a bit. There are already big holes filled with fresh water not to far from oberon and they aren't very well utilised for water skiing or swimming.
Theres a big land mass west of oberon which makes the air mass colder than sydney in the winter and hotter in summer.I think my username gives it away a bit, but a big fat no from me. Others have already put up pretty good reasons as to why it would not work, but pretty sure that it would not have the support of locals either (apart from the Halfway Hotel!). State Forests are desperate for more land in the area so I doubt whether they would be happy to lease Mt Bindo and surrounding area, and it is all surrounded by private properties. Jenolan Caves Rd is still not open from Five Mile to the Caves (over 2 years now) and it is still one way traffic from Hampton to the Oberon turn off, due to slope instability.
And plant more deciduous tress to make it look pretty?!! Don't think the recently discovered koala population in the area would enjoy that at all. If nothing else, this should be the final nail in the coffin.
That place saved me one winter. Broke down late one Friday night in the state forest coming from Burraga to Oberon (and then on to Sydney).Limped the car to Oberon servo who arranged a lift to the Jenolan Caves Road and I walked from there to Hampton to call home from the pay phone just to say I would be late and then a local gave me a lift to the pub. He felt sorry for me out in the cold. Bought me a beer then arranged a lift with someone going to Lithgow who in turn arranged a lift for me at a Servo that got me home. This is back in the 70's. Maybe the locals are different now.
Nice to hear. The Halfway has changed hands since then, but there's still plenty of the long time local families in the district; we've had our place there in the same family for around 100yrs. A little slice of paradise
Koala population there? Oh geez. Well, that'll make it harderI think my username gives it away a bit, but a big fat no from me. Others have already put up pretty good reasons as to why it would not work, but pretty sure that it would not have the support of locals either (apart from the Halfway Hotel!). State Forests are desperate for more land in the area so I doubt whether they would be happy to lease Mt Bindo and surrounding area, and it is all surrounded by private properties. Jenolan Caves Rd is still not open from Five Mile to the Caves (over 2 years now) and it is still one way traffic from Hampton to the Oberon turn off, due to slope instability.
And plant more deciduous tress to make it look pretty?!! Don't think the recently discovered koala population in the area would enjoy that at all. If nothing else, this should be the final nail in the coffin.
But then again, there may be ways to make it viable. Let me look this over and I'll come back with more crackpot ideas
Simples, we just lower global temps by 5°c. Problemo solvered.
Well, like I said, North Island NZ (North Island, NOT South Island, NORTH Island), North Island NZ has similar altitude and latitude to Australia's peaks. So if they can have consistent summer snow...
