Is 2017 Shaping Up To Be A Lean Season?

Discussion in 'Alpine & Snow' started by Old School Mike, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,567
    Likes Received:
    2,890
    This happened early June but then none since so the sun has done its job and there has been no real top up. The insulating factor is one I had not thought of before but can see it as logical. Those years where frosts are early and plentiful would have a better chance of keeping snow from melting. I am not concerned about this season as yet. I have one food drop in place and may get a second in before winter connects properly. I am more concerned about a drier winter not providing for spring growth on the farm. That means feeding out longer or starting to feed out earlier next year.
     
  2. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    3,766
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Nothing significant in the forecast for the next fortnight at this stage. School holiday sliding will be restricted to snowmaking areas only.
     
  3. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,847
    Likes Received:
    614
    Location:
    Beaconsfield,Victoria
    The prediction thread for July 3-5 gives some cause for optimism, does it not?
     
    nfip, Claude Cat and POW_hungry like this.
  4. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    45,291
    Likes Received:
    13,659
  5. blackice

    blackice One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    336
    Location:
    Nations Capital
    Absolutely.
     
    Old School Mike likes this.
  6. blackice

    blackice One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    336
    Location:
    Nations Capital
    Decent cover in June is a massive bonus. Personally I don't even really think about it till mid July (but I'll do a run down next week to check it out)
     
    FourSquare04 and Budgiesmuggler like this.
  7. blackice

    blackice One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    336
    Location:
    Nations Capital
    I see a lot of comments regarding 'ground cooling'. Isn't this concept debunked? Serious question.
     
    CarveMan likes this.
  8. IAB

    IAB A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,921
    Likes Received:
    8,752
    Location:
    The Shire, Sydney
    Yawn. Wake me up after the school holidays. If there's no natural by late July then I will start to be concerned.
     
  9. bengarden

    bengarden One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    417
    I love how some people don't care if theres no proper snow unti llate July. Serious? That means we have like about a 5 week season before it turns to ice and slush. No wonder the prices are so out of whack with the quality of snow and accomodation here when they have to gouge everyone in about a month and a half. I've had some great skiing in June the last few years and saved a whole lot on accomodation going early before school holidays to get in some early turns but not this year. I pulled the pin on a day trip this week and definitely won't be looking to get down while its school holiday carnage mode. Yes, for me its shaping up as a lean year........
     
  10. Cuddles

    Cuddles One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    275
    I agree, I thought it was generally accepted that we have no permafrost or ground freezing. That's said the ground is harder in winter .
     
  11. Cuddles

    Cuddles One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    275
    Nothing, Suggest we look deeper?
     
  12. IAB

    IAB A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    Messages:
    8,921
    Likes Received:
    8,752
    Location:
    The Shire, Sydney
    In recent years I haven't been down until school holidays are done, and a couple of years ago (either 2014 or 2015) conditions meant I didn't go until the last week of July. Still managed to get 12+ days in.

    Of course everyone's situation is different with work, family etc and yes I would love to go in June but the fact that I haven't in recent years and have still managed to get plenty of days in means I'm not worried. Yet.
     
  13. FourSquare04

    FourSquare04 A Local

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Location:
    Wollongong
    This is what happens after you get a few good years with early starts i.e. flashback to 3 years ago in 2014 where there was a 1m+ base and easily the best June conditions I can remember in 20+ years

    People tend to only remember them as being the norm and when we slip back into what 'actually' is the norm i.e. next to no snowfalls until July then everyone starts moaning and complaining that it's going to be a terrible season and all doom n gloom.

    This is Australia - we are lucky to receive 250cm of snow per winter in the Alpine Resorts.

    Our winters are 'fickle' at best
     
    Chaeron, SnowBound, nfip and 7 others like this.
  14. Old School Mike

    Old School Mike One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    620
    Unfortunately I think youre right
     
    #114 Old School Mike, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  15. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    3,766
    Location:
    Melbourne
    ?
     
  16. Vandans

    Vandans Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    92
    Location:
    ACT
    Europe was the same last season, very warm over Christmas New year, resorts not open, green grass then some snow early january then nothing for the rest, very lean relied on snow making
     
    FourSquare04 likes this.
  17. Old School Mike

    Old School Mike One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    620
    I agree with bengarden. As I stated earlier, I quite often get some skiing done in June, albeit average. This has been the case the last 3 yrs. As a mostly back country skier, I find it concerning there is no real natural cover yet. We need a week or two for a natural cover to settle in and a base to develop before it is any good to ski. This means the BC probably won't be any good until late July or even August based on current forecasts. So far the extremely dry June is showing all the signs of a lean season.
     
    #117 Old School Mike, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  18. Old School Mike

    Old School Mike One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    620
    I think your assessment for the school holidays is right.
     
    #118 Old School Mike, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
    Froff Life likes this.
  19. Stephen James Allen

    Stephen James Allen Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    170
    We are lucky if we receive over 200 cm in a year (as measured by Snowy Hydro at Spencers Creek). Greater than 250 is a rare occurrence.
     
  20. Stephen James Allen

    Stephen James Allen Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    170
    Yeah, I was in Japan on a lean season and it was sick.
     
    blackice likes this.
  21. jonathanc

    jonathanc One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes Received:
    2,262
    Think @FourSquare04 was referring to 250cm total snowfall, not 250cm peak depth.
     
    FourSquare04 likes this.
  22. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    45,291
    Likes Received:
    13,659
    You've only just realised this? The Australian ski season has always been thus.

    Thankfully the 'ice and slush' in late August-early September can also be 'awesome spring corn' if you get your timing during the day and enough proper snow fell in July/August.
     
    SnowBound, nfip, CarveMan and 4 others like this.
  23. ladycamper

    ladycamper One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Australia
    If yes, great for cheaper snow holidays but the quality experience would be compromised and too many lean seasons would increase pressure on ski industry businesses as the upwardly mobile and prosperous decide to commit to annual overseas ski trips more frequently, leaving behind weekenders, budget visitors, schools etc. There needs to be some great years here so people going into business in the regions can be adequately rewarded for their risk.
     
  24. bengarden

    bengarden One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    417
    I don't buy the "this is a normal Australian snow season" thing . This has got to be one of the warmer starts to a season on record for daytime temps at Perisher. I know theres been plenty of nights to make snow but seriously, I haven't really seen more than a few daytimes at or below freezing. The average daytime temp is running at 2 degrees over average with a few days left in the month and nights are .7 degree warmer. Forecast is 6 and 7 degree days on the wkd. Spring really......Its just the lack of actual weather thats getting me in Canberra. Day after day of the same, no wind, tops of about 12-13, occasional overcast but no precipitation. Its like a cool drought here, 2mm of rain all of June.
     
  25. DiscoStuAU

    DiscoStuAU One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    1,753
    Likes Received:
    4,375
    Location:
    Melbourne City, VIC
    I have to agree that this winter season certainly has started slow in Melbourne too. I can't recall recently a run as long as we have had of basically no weather except for mild days and cool to cold nights. Nights have deff been colder than normal i would say though.

    Having said that we knew going into the season that it wasn't likely to be a particularly cold or wet one. At least not initially. So it comes as no surprise to me reflecting on the past 4 weeks.
     
    Froff Life and FourSquare04 like this.
  26. glengary

    glengary One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    858
    Before man made snow there were many years that we could not ski until July onwards. General rule after 60 years of experience, Early start, early finish. Late start, late finish. Here in Aus. we rarely get a year of good quality and quantity the whole of the season. The snow will come, just sometimes later then normal, whatever normal might be in this country.
     
    MickM, nfip, blackice and 2 others like this.
  27. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,344
    Likes Received:
    36,412
    Will this be a lean season? No, I'm still fat!

    10th day for the year tomorrow. @Normo must be up to 20 or more?
     
    Normo likes this.
  28. Normo

    Normo Mostly Harmless Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    6,770
    Likes Received:
    23,666
    Location:
    Summer: Berowra Waters. Winter: Jindabyne
    23.......but who's counting............:D
     
    Chaeron, rustyst, Ted Harper and 2 others like this.
  29. 1st_King_of_QBN

    1st_King_of_QBN One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    555
    I hate you Normo...
     
    Normo and telecrag like this.
  30. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Only 9 for me :(
     
  31. Claude Cat

    Claude Cat On my bike Moderator Ski Pass: Platinum

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2001
    Messages:
    119,360
    Likes Received:
    62,086
    Location:
    Canterbury, Vic
    The reality of snow in Australia is this is what it is.
    The difference between a good year and average to poor one is if we get early snow - early being June.
     
    Chaeron, nfip, FourSquare04 and 3 others like this.
  32. blackice

    blackice One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    336
    Location:
    Nations Capital
    Really depends on how you define a good year I guess. IMO there's too many variables to define it by the weather, or the snow depth, or the number of days of coverage in a season, or the number of wet days vs snow days. I define it by whether I had a good time visiting a snow area and so far (20+ years), every year has been a good year for me.
     
    SMSkier, Ted Harper, bradster and 4 others like this.
  33. Old School Mike

    Old School Mike One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    620
    Very good point. Any day on skis is a good one.
     
    Chaeron, blackice, Froff Life and 2 others like this.
  34. FourSquare04

    FourSquare04 A Local

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Location:
    Wollongong
    Unless it's pissing down rain
     
    Chaeron, blackice, sbm and 2 others like this.
  35. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    32,997
    Likes Received:
    29,699
    Location:
    Coastal suburban boonies.
    This is why god invented bars.
     
    Chaeron, blackice, MickM and 3 others like this.
  36. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    45,291
    Likes Received:
    13,659
    Incorrect. It's why man invented breathable, technical fabrics and fat skis.
     
    Karbon, blackice, MarkV and 2 others like this.
  37. FourSquare04

    FourSquare04 A Local

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Location:
    Wollongong
    Yeah sorry I just can't bring myself to snowboarding in pissing down rain anymore - been there, done that, don't need to do it anymore. Absolute waste of cash if you ask me. Better off having a down day if you can help it.
     
    blackice likes this.
  38. was June daily watching

    was June daily watching One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    382
    It's a nice thought, but it's still horrible skiing in the wet.
    Perhaps we'll all be in the bar with Legs.
     
    blackice and FourSquare04 like this.
  39. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,344
    Likes Received:
    36,412
    Which would not be a day on skis, hence a bad day! Point still stands!
     
  40. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    45,291
    Likes Received:
    13,659
    That's OK, that leaves me to do laps of great terrain with no crowds. Some of my best days on skis in Oz have been in the wet, especially when you book a group lesson and you're the only guy who turns up so you and your instructor just go crazy for an hour on the empty runs.

    Skiing is an outdoor sport you know ;)

    There is a fine line b/w 'skiing in the rain' and 'skiing in the sleet/graupel'. I mean you get wet either way, but if you stopped skiing in Australia every time the precipitation wasn't perfectly formed snow crystals you'd never get out of bed in July.
     
    blackice likes this.
  41. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,344
    Likes Received:
    36,412
    True, I had an excellent afternoon skiing up high in fresh, but had to get on the lift in the rain.
     
  42. Froff Life

    Froff Life A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Messages:
    7,477
    Likes Received:
    3,766
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Skiing in actual pouring rain is dreadful. One year at Buller we got completely soaked, we were ringing out our gloves on the chair and puddles of water were forming in our laps.
     
    FourSquare04 likes this.
  43. was June daily watching

    was June daily watching One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    382
    I once, luckily only once, had to watch the millennial racing in the rain.
    The poor little buggers had a difficult time of it, but at least they had something to do.
    I was just getting saturated.
     
  44. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    8,539
    Likes Received:
    14,638
    Only once? It's pretty much been an every year occurrence for me (at least once a season)!
     
    nfip likes this.
  45. FourSquare04

    FourSquare04 A Local

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    3,477
    Location:
    Wollongong
    That's fine, it's the pouring with rain from top to bottom that isn't
     
  46. blackice

    blackice One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    336
    Location:
    Nations Capital
    I'll concede that ;) but only now that I'm old..
     
    FourSquare04 likes this.
  47. rocketboy

    rocketboy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,632
    Likes Received:
    3,307
    Location:
    Gerroa
    some meaningless stats for some arbitrary perspective

     
    Chaeron and telecrag like this.
  48. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    1,932
    Likes Received:
    2,461
    Location:
    A very long way from everybody
    Joisus. That's not a perspective I like. I remember 2006, skiing BC in the July school holidays. There was no skiable natural snow.
     
  49. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    40,093
    Likes Received:
    28,938
    Location:
    the sunny illawarra
    Good god
     
  50. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    28,344
    Likes Received:
    36,412
    Wow, that makes 2006 look better than I remember it being!
     
    CarveMan likes this.