Is Vail group financially secure?

Bato

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 25, 2005
3,235
779
363
35
Jindabyne/Brunswick Heads
www.facebook.com
Vail always makes a loss in the 1st quarter due to most of their resorts being shut, 2019 was 106.5mil this year was 153.7mil.
It blew out at bit, Season pass sales are up 20% but revenue from pass sales was flat due to credits from last season. Also keep in mind the East Coast resorts that are now buying season passes.
Vail had to pay 6.25% for their 600mil debt issued in April.
 

Telezacski

A Local
Ski Pass
Mar 19, 2010
6,417
12,565
563
Vail always makes a loss in the 1st quarter due to most of their resorts being shut, 2019 was 106.5mil this year was 153.7mil.
It blew out at bit, Season pass sales are up 20% but revenue from pass sales was flat due to credits from last season. Also keep in mind the East Coast resorts that are now buying season passes.
Vail had to pay 6.25% for their 600mil debt issued in April.

I thought the revenue from season passes is shown in the next quarter as this is when the income is realised.

Some of the income will show now but next quarter is when they get a large cash boost normally (not this year due to credits).
 

Bato

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 25, 2005
3,235
779
363
35
Jindabyne/Brunswick Heads
www.facebook.com
  • Season pass sales through December 6, 2020 for the upcoming 2020/2021 North American ski season increased approximately 20% in units and were flat in sales dollars as compared to the period in the prior year through December 8, 2019, with sales dollars for this year reduced by the value of the redeemed credits provided to 2019/2020 North American pass holders. Without deducting for the value of the redeemed credits, sales dollars increased approximately 19% compared to the prior year. Pass sales are adjusted to eliminate the impact of foreign currency by applying an exchange rate of $0.78 between the Canadian dollar and U.S. dollar in both periods for Whistler Blackcomb pass sales.
/QUOTE]
They had this update in the quarterly.
 

Jacko4650

One of Us
Ski Pass
May 15, 2014
3,486
7,083
363
It's been discussed both here and in other threads, but the idea of using data to help "smooth out" lift lines (increasing satisfaction and reducing potential contact during SARS type events is being implemented in one of the worlds largest ski areas in the Italian Dolomites. They are using the data to estimate lift waiting times on key lifts:-
From the website of Dolomiti Superski:
New Skiers Map
An innovative Skiers Map, which displays how busy the main lifts are at a specific moment, will be available inside the new Dolomiti Superski app. The map will also be integrated into the 3D ski map on our website. By measuring the percentage of lift capacity used within a unit of time, the map allows the skier to decide when to use which lifts and to therefore avoid possible crowds.
 

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
This is old news, but a nice summary. Jason Blevins has been writing about the ski industry for a long time. The 1.4 million Epic passes caught my eye.

Be interesting to know how many people requested a refund before Dec. 8. There are unhappy people who normally drive to ski in Vermont who bought Epic. Given the travel restrictions in place, at least on some people don't want to ignore them for ski trips. Supposed to quarantine for 14 days, but pretty much an honor system. New York City and Boston are markets for Epic Northeast now that Stowe, Mt. Snow, and Okemo are owned by VR. Of course, normally people in the northeast who buy Epic/Epic Local do so because they are planning a ski vacation in the Rockies. For those who are willing to fly to Colorado or Utah, that's still quite possible. Tahoe is iffy given California's travel restrictions.

Dec. 11, Colorado Sun (USA)
Vail Resorts losses continue as pandemic impacts stretch into ski season
North America’s largest resort operator posts 50% revenue decline but a record 1.4 million sales of its Epic Passes. Vail Resorts chief Rob Katz warns investors of “a very challenging season ahead.”
https://coloradosun.com/2020/12/11/vail-resorts-earnings-covid-ski-season/
 

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
In case anyone cares, here's the transcript for the Vail Resorts quarterly report. Includes the Q&A. I haven't read it.


What's a bit strange is that VR is not opening summer activities in a few locations. That includes skiing on the Blackcomb glacier. Americans are more confused by the fact that mountain biking will not open at Stevens Pass in Washington state. That had a long standing tradition from before being purchased by VR a few years ago. Here's the list as of early June 2021.

Whistler Blackcomb, BC, Canada: no glacier skiing, Peak zone TBD

Stevens Pass, WA: no summer operations
Northstar, CA: No bike clinics or lessons
Vail Mountain, CO: No Game Creek zip lines or ropes course.
Park City, UT: village mountain operations unclear
Attitash, NH (small mountain): most activities closed (zip line, mountain coaster, bike park, water slides, and more)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave Clark

skiflat

Old n' Crusty
Aug 10, 1999
37,708
1,491
1,063
If they pull off a full season here in Australia they will be laughing

Excluding the next 9 days in VIC where travel is restricted
 

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
This one got me. Raised to $15 an hour. FFS.

To put that in context of how things are going in the USA right now, Under Armour just raised the minimum wage to $15/hour. They have 3000 openings. McDonald's, Costco, Amazon are some big companies that have increased wages in the last few months.

 

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
If they pull off a full season here in Australia they will be laughing

Excluding the next 9 days in VIC where travel is restricted
All the VR resorts in the USA had full seasons. W-B in BC had the season cut short by restrictions. In general, the lift access reservation system worked after Epic passholders got the hang of it.

Did you all see that Epic passes for 2021-22 were 20% less than 2020-21? The start of sales were delayed for a few weeks. The reason people are complaining lately is that more resorts will have far more paid parking then in the past.
 

mr

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 24, 2003
19,556
14,154
813
melbourne
yeah i cant remember what i paid for the early bird epic pass but i think it was $800, so only 5-6 says skiing at the new prices
 

robbo mcs

One of Us
Ski Pass
Sep 1, 2008
4,541
19,501
363
Kenthurst / Jindabyne
In case anyone cares, here's the transcript for the Vail Resorts quarterly report. Includes the Q&A. I haven't read it.


What's a bit strange is that VR is not opening summer activities in a few locations. That includes skiing on the Blackcomb glacier. Americans are more confused by the fact that mountain biking will not open at Stevens Pass in Washington state. That had a long standing tradition from before being purchased by VR a few years ago. Here's the list as of early June 2021.

Whistler Blackcomb, BC, Canada: no glacier skiing, Peak zone TBD

Stevens Pass, WA: no summer operations
Northstar, CA: No bike clinics or lessons
Vail Mountain, CO: No Game Creek zip lines or ropes course.
Park City, UT: village mountain operations unclear
Attitash, NH (small mountain): most activities closed (zip line, mountain coaster, bike park, water slides, and more)

For context, the Whistler resort was shut down by the BC provincial government before the end of the ski season. They were not allowed to open. The restrictions have only just been eased, and they have just been allowed to open the gondola for limited sightseeing.

With regards to summer skiing, they have lost a lot of snow on the Horstman glacier, where that occurs. Half of it has been shut down for several years, and they actually removed the t-bar this year. Some of the operators of the summer skiing camps went broke. So no summer skiing probably reflects that, more than anything else. I doubt it will ever run again, unless something dramatic happens to the glacier
 

sly_karma

Green Bastard
Ski Pass
Dec 12, 2005
22,405
16,411
1,063
Penticton, BC
No proof, but general opinion within the BC ski industry is WB asked the govt to shut them down. Variants of concern were on the rise and the PHO obliged. BW and Revy quickly followed suit and closed voluntarily within a couple of days of the WB order.

March had been unusually dry and April shaping up same (turned out to be true too). With the big spring festivals off limits, there was nothing to prop up spring business, so early shutdowns blamed on Covid were an easy, clean solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rowdyflat

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
No proof, but general opinion within the BC ski industry is WB asked the govt to shut them down. Variants of concern were on the rise and the PHO obliged. BW and Revy quickly followed suit and closed voluntarily within a couple of days of the WB order.

March had been unusually dry and April shaping up same (turned out to be true too). With the big spring festivals off limits, there was nothing to prop up spring business, so early shutdowns blamed on Covid were an easy, clean solution.
Given how VR handled resort closures in Colorado and Australia in 2020, seems like a reasonable guess.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sly_karma

Ozgirl

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2007
15,576
17,993
813
Sydney/Jindy
  • Like
Reactions: Tanuki

Jacko4650

One of Us
Ski Pass
May 15, 2014
3,486
7,083
363
It was only the other day somebody was telling me the Board of Vail cancelled all Cap-Ex while Covid was mystifying operations. Context: Whether the new Mt P 6 seater would go ahead or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaeron

MarzNC

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 8, 2017
2,428
3,951
363
Raleigh, NC, USA
over50skifitness.blogspot.com
  • Like
Reactions: D-eye and Chaeron
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Learn how membership works on these forums
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass